So first of this is my first post so bare with me of this topic has been discussed before. I'm planning on either buying or preferably have a precision rifle built in the future (possible around spring time). My question is what are you alls opinion on a good long range caliber. I'm particularly interested in 6mm Creedmoor vs 6.5mm Creedmoor. Thanks
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Some advice on caliber
- Thread starter PainterGuy
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What do you mean when you say "long range", at what targets will you be shooting, what do you need the bullet to be able to do when it gets there, and are you going to be loading your own ammunition?
I'm assuming you are going full-on custom everything?
ALSO...how much shooting volume will you be doing, and how committed are you to sacrificing the $$ for regular barrel replacements to obtain a desired performance level?
IE: are you happy with 500-700 round barrel life, or will you be upset if you don't get 5,000 rounds of good precision?
-Nate
I'm assuming you are going full-on custom everything?
ALSO...how much shooting volume will you be doing, and how committed are you to sacrificing the $$ for regular barrel replacements to obtain a desired performance level?
IE: are you happy with 500-700 round barrel life, or will you be upset if you don't get 5,000 rounds of good precision?
-Nate
Also, what is your definition of "Long Range". I know people that rarely shoot over 50 yards and call 200 "long range". Others that go to Ft Wayne and shoot 1000 yards....
The previous post asked this, reading fail...
The previous post asked this, reading fail...
I personally am gearing up for a 6.5 creedmoor, I understand the advantages of the 6 but I personally don't want to worry about shorter barrel life. I also don't want to say the creedmoor is "good enough" but what I am getting for the money I am putting in is great for me. While I will reload my own ammo, buying factory for it is pretty cheap and IMO reasonable. Plus for some reason that's just what I've wanted for awhile. I am just trying to decide if I was to buy one of the new Ruger Precision rifles or build one.
As of now I do not load my own ammo but that is going to be apart of this purchase. As far as what I'd consider long range 200 is not I mean about 1000. I would prefer a longer barrel life purely because I do not want to always be refinding what load works well in the new barrels.
ChristianPatriot
Grandmaster
6.5 is great. I don't think you'll be disappointed. High B.C. and good barrel life. Have you made any plans for any of the components yet?
ChristianPatriot
Grandmaster
What's this for? F-class? Tactical? Hunting? All of the above?
It is my opinion that the caliber of the rifle you intend to build should be either 6.5mm or 7mm.
Though the heavier 6's will certainly do the job, the bullets are just not as slick even at the top end, and they are harder on barrels when you push them to keep up with what a more moderate load from a .264 or .284 bore will do in the wind.
Too, neither of the two present enough additional recoil over the 6mm to present a real problem for most shooters.
For 6.5mm, I'd be considering .260 Remington, 6.5x55 Swede (Cut for Lapua Casings), 6.5 Creedmoor, or 6.5-284 Winchester....in order of decreasing barrel life, but increasing performance. The 6.5-284 could really use a long action, as could the Swede. 6.5x47 Lapua is awesome, but will be outpaced by the others at long range a little, and brass cost is ridiculous. 6.5 SLR is super neat, but may not be in your ballpark as a beginning reloader.
For 7mm, I'd start at 7-08, go to a straight .284 Winchester if I wanted to stay in the short action, and then move right to a 7mm RSAUM or 7mm Rem. Mag, depending on long or short action.
7 Rem. Mag is absolutely as heavy as I'd go with, and if I were a beginner in heavy rifles, I'd not even go there. Recoil will be bothersome to a lot of beginning shooters at that level, at least if they intend on 40+ round range sessions, and will not be braking or suppressing the rifle system.
With 7's bumping up to and over 0.700 G1 BC, there is very little need to stay with "da ole Thuddy-cal" for 1,000 yard shooting or under unless you had some different purposes in mind for the rifle.
For the barrel on a rig like this, I'd specifically use either a Krieger or Bartlein. You need all the help you can get on barrel life, and this is your best hedge. In the 6.5mm it would be an 8.0" twist; in the 7mm it would be a 9.0" twist.
The chambering reamer is a VERY important discussion to be had with your smith. Particularly with cartridges like the 6.5x47 Lapua or the .260 Remington, not just any ol' reamer will necessarily cut you the freebore you need. Neck diameter is also typically quite large on box or SAAMI reamers...make sure you cover this, and don't go too large for your chosen brass.
For the action, I'd go with a Pierce with small firing pin and with a pinned lug, assuming you want to stick with a Remington-pattern action. If I couldn't afford a Pierce, then I'd find a smith that really knows what to fix on a Remington and go from there. Spend wisely, and search widely. If you don't have "wise", then ask someone who does. The smith WILL make or break the rifle's potential.
I'm not going into triggers. Too many worms in that can for this thread.
My rifle would wear a Medium Palma barrel 26-30" in length, or if I intended bench/bipod only shooting, then maybe a slightly reduced AMU-contour...but probably still just a Medium Palma. I'd be shooting for a total system weight of 12-14 lbs.
-Nate
Though the heavier 6's will certainly do the job, the bullets are just not as slick even at the top end, and they are harder on barrels when you push them to keep up with what a more moderate load from a .264 or .284 bore will do in the wind.
Too, neither of the two present enough additional recoil over the 6mm to present a real problem for most shooters.
For 6.5mm, I'd be considering .260 Remington, 6.5x55 Swede (Cut for Lapua Casings), 6.5 Creedmoor, or 6.5-284 Winchester....in order of decreasing barrel life, but increasing performance. The 6.5-284 could really use a long action, as could the Swede. 6.5x47 Lapua is awesome, but will be outpaced by the others at long range a little, and brass cost is ridiculous. 6.5 SLR is super neat, but may not be in your ballpark as a beginning reloader.
For 7mm, I'd start at 7-08, go to a straight .284 Winchester if I wanted to stay in the short action, and then move right to a 7mm RSAUM or 7mm Rem. Mag, depending on long or short action.
7 Rem. Mag is absolutely as heavy as I'd go with, and if I were a beginner in heavy rifles, I'd not even go there. Recoil will be bothersome to a lot of beginning shooters at that level, at least if they intend on 40+ round range sessions, and will not be braking or suppressing the rifle system.
With 7's bumping up to and over 0.700 G1 BC, there is very little need to stay with "da ole Thuddy-cal" for 1,000 yard shooting or under unless you had some different purposes in mind for the rifle.
For the barrel on a rig like this, I'd specifically use either a Krieger or Bartlein. You need all the help you can get on barrel life, and this is your best hedge. In the 6.5mm it would be an 8.0" twist; in the 7mm it would be a 9.0" twist.
The chambering reamer is a VERY important discussion to be had with your smith. Particularly with cartridges like the 6.5x47 Lapua or the .260 Remington, not just any ol' reamer will necessarily cut you the freebore you need. Neck diameter is also typically quite large on box or SAAMI reamers...make sure you cover this, and don't go too large for your chosen brass.
For the action, I'd go with a Pierce with small firing pin and with a pinned lug, assuming you want to stick with a Remington-pattern action. If I couldn't afford a Pierce, then I'd find a smith that really knows what to fix on a Remington and go from there. Spend wisely, and search widely. If you don't have "wise", then ask someone who does. The smith WILL make or break the rifle's potential.
I'm not going into triggers. Too many worms in that can for this thread.
My rifle would wear a Medium Palma barrel 26-30" in length, or if I intended bench/bipod only shooting, then maybe a slightly reduced AMU-contour...but probably still just a Medium Palma. I'd be shooting for a total system weight of 12-14 lbs.
-Nate
ChristianPatriot
Grandmaster
No personal experience, but I've spent a TON of time researching the 6.5 vs .30 caliber discussion. Probly more time than I care to admit. Honestly for me it came down to reloading components that I already had access to, and continuity among the rigs of the guys I shoot with. I too have been very interested in the 6.5, particularly the Creedmoor.
sloughfoot
Grandmaster
Some really great advice has been put out for you. I have a couple of thoughts.
Many factory rifles are emminantly suitable for getting you started. Barrels and custom this and that, are not needed for a shooter who has never pulled the trigger at 1000 yards.
There is a Remington 700 ADL in 30.06 in the classifieds right now. IMO the perfect LR starter rifle with room for the custom stuff and any caliber later since it is a long action.
If you decide the custom rifle route, Spring is the worst time to order a custom build. Now is the time to be discussing the rifle that will hopefully be delivered in the Spring.
FWIW.
Many factory rifles are emminantly suitable for getting you started. Barrels and custom this and that, are not needed for a shooter who has never pulled the trigger at 1000 yards.
There is a Remington 700 ADL in 30.06 in the classifieds right now. IMO the perfect LR starter rifle with room for the custom stuff and any caliber later since it is a long action.
If you decide the custom rifle route, Spring is the worst time to order a custom build. Now is the time to be discussing the rifle that will hopefully be delivered in the Spring.
FWIW.
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sloughfoot
Grandmaster
If the guy has plenty of coin, who am I to discourage him. Truthfully, i believe the best way to 1000 yards is at 50 feet with a smallbore. But it seems everybody has to be an "operator".
Thousands of 22LR at 50 ft or 100 yards is far cheaper than thousands of any center fire.
I do most of my LR shooting practice at 300 yards. And at 50 feet with my Kimber 82G. There is not very opportunities for practice at 1000 yards nearby. And you need a partner and working target pits to keep the frustration level within reason.
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