Some of my thoughts on Immigration - LONG post!

[tuoder]

Interesting as I have been reading reports that convey the exact oppostite with regard to crime.

The state has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants. But contrary to myth, they have not brought an epidemic of murder and mayhem with them. Surprise of surprises, the state has gotten safer.
Over the last decade, the violent crime rate has dropped by 19 percent, while property crime is down by 20 percent. Crime has also declined in the rest of the country, but not as fast as in Arizona.

Immigration and Crime | The Agitator

El Paso is one of the safest big cities in the US if you are to believe reported crime data.

The El Paso Miracle - Reason Magazine

One trend that is interesting is that the more generations a family has been in the US, the more likely they are to be involved in crime. WE are teaching them.

If I had to guess, I'd say that they are less likely to commit a crime because if they commit a crime and are caught, then they risk deportation.

 

[mrjarrell]

Excellent post, Doug! Well stated. These refugees from south of the border are looking for the same things everyone else is. Freedom and prosperity. They can't find it where they're from so they come to the one place they can find it, no matter how they get here. Mexico is a failed state, in many of the ways that matter, and they've created wave after wave of refugees for us to deal with. These people are crossing the imaginary lines in hopes of creating a better life for themselves and their children, when that opportunity has been stolen by their own corrupt governments in their homelands. We've always welcomed refugees...hopefully, we always will.

 

[serpicostraight]

Interesting as I have been reading reports that convey the exact oppostite with regard to crime.

The state has an estimated 460,000 illegal immigrants. But contrary to myth, they have not brought an epidemic of murder and mayhem with them. Surprise of surprises, the state has gotten safer.
Over the last decade, the violent crime rate has dropped by 19 percent, while property crime is down by 20 percent. Crime has also declined in the rest of the country, but not as fast as in Arizona.

Immigration and Crime | The Agitator

El Paso is one of the safest big cities in the US if you are to believe reported crime data.

The El Paso Miracle - Reason Magazine

One trend that is interesting is that the more generations a family has been in the US, the more likely they are to be involved in crime. WE are teaching them.

you really believe that? lets go to phoenix ill show you the truth. its easy to sit behind a keyboard and believe that stuff lets hit the streets amigo see it for yourself

 

[slackerisme]

I agree fully with the OP. My family is 5 or 6 generations deep in theis country and every one of us worked for what we have. Take away the entitlements, make EVERYONE (illegal or otherwise*) work for a living and watch the tsunami of crap subside.

As a tangent, I am curious what level of permanently disabled ex-workers donate time to a charity. Seems like there are plenty of non physical ways to "give back", you know, if your not a lazy bag of crap and all.


*Please add the usual "i have no problem with those that have...." poor economic times discliamer here.

 

[SavageEagle]

What these illegals do is what I have a problem with. Use fake SS#'s to get jobs that pay them, There is a solution on place that is not used. They are working the loopholes, just like people who go to the "emergency room" and leave without full payment. They do it, and so have you.

There is not a solution in place. It's not mandatory and not all states or workplaces use it. It's not working a loop hole, it breaking the law. Stop supporting it and start fighting it. I've never seen ANYONE go to the ER and leave making a full payment. Ever. I've never even seen or heard of anyone on their way to the ER saying "Oh, stop by the bank on the way will ya?" And for the record, I pay my bills. Stop trying to make me out like I don't.

practically tax free in some cases; Explain this part. My understanding is that Joe's lawn service pays taxes on the Illegal SSN, the illegal SSN pays the taxes on his "income", and then when the illegal leaves at the end of the season, the "taxes" stays behind. Do you have a different experience?

I've worked many jobs where illegal's aren't reported or just work jobs that are "under the table". They don't try to become citizens because the next year they're back in their home Country with all the money they made until they run out and come back.

Some Mexicans come up here and buy cars and are, somehow or another, tax exempt and don't have to pay taxes on the cars they buy. They buy from these small Buy-Here-Pay-Here's and either take them back to Mexico and turn a profit or resell them to their buddies here.

Use welfare assistance programs instead of trying to make it on their own like our ancestors did;
You could say this about a large percentage of American too.

And that makes it any different how?

Come here transporting drugs (Coke, Heroin, Meth);
You're really reaching here. Again, are you suggesting that the drugs will leave when the borders are closed?

Now did I say that? That's the most ignorant question yet. Of course it won't STOP coming into the Country, but it will be pinched off to a trickle IF the .gov actually cared enough to do something about it. Anymore pot is grown here more and more so I didn't count it. And I don't count it because it should be just as legal as Tobacco. But that's a different thread.

Come here only to make some money and only get the job because of "affirmative action" laws, passing over CITIZENS who NEED the job.
What jobs have you missed because of "them" this week.

Another completely ignorant question. If that's suppose to be a question since it ends in a period. ANYWAY, if you don't think this doesn't happen, then you're blind to the entire problem. I didn't say it happened to me. I know twisting my words is your favorite game, but it's getting real old, real quick.

Then they send the money back to their homeland like Chile, Brazil, Mexico, etc. and not spend the money here keeping the money in our economy.
Immigrants have always sent money to their family, and always will, how does that fact affect your lifestyle?

So you see no problem with illegals sending billions of dollars out of our Country when they're not suppose to be here in the first place? How does it affect you and me? Are you serious? If this Country was your household and someone came into your house illegally, mopped your kitchen, vacuumed your living room, and then took a few thousand dollars all against your wishes and knowledge you would be ok with that?

(Last I heard, somewhere in the range of the Billions gets taken from our economy this way) Last I heard, most of them send it back to the USA to buy the Sham-wow to wipe the dust off of thier mules....

Wow. Really, I have nothing to say to this that won't result in an infraction. At least I know you're racist. Nice.

I don't have a problem with those that come here and try to make a life for themselves, abide by our laws, and become a citizen like the lady you described in your story.

Government needs to stop meddling in welfare period They need to stop providing it.

The second part is a great point too. Immigration does have it's positives and negatives, but in this day and age, with all the problems this Country has, we have to start getting a rope around immigration as a whole.

With terrorism, Veggie pickers are terrorist too? Really?
an economic depression By who's defintion are we in a depression?
and pending collapse, You're reaching again
and being on the verge of civil unrest.... What does that have to do with this discussion?
We've made it to easy for illegals to actually BE terrorists and could endanger this Country to a larger attack than 9/11. Foil...Hat...Too...Tight

You don't think terrorists come here illegally? Wake up. I
If you can't see the coming collapse, you can't see the forest for the trees.
What does civil unrest have to do with this? If we slipped into a second civil war, you don't think Mexico wouldn't try to take back the SW States, terrorists carry out attacks, etc? How do you think they would've gotten into the Country to begin with? Both legally AND illegally. Most likely illegally.

Foil on too tight? No, not quite. It's called being vigilant and expecting the worst. I don't live in the forest of unicorns and rainbows like you do. I don't believe that everything's going to be just hunky-dorey.


Remember, Mexico is still upset about losing the Southwestern States. Did you really just say that? Do the Ruskies want Palin's property back too?

You don't read much history do you? And yes, the Russians would give their left nut to have Alaska. Or have you forgotten those remarks from Stalin and all his Stalinist followers from recent years?

 

[T-rav]

We secure the border. Is there a "ellis island" in the southern region?, stop the entitlements, we help the people that want to come here for the better. We have done it for generations. Plain and simple there is a right way and a wrong way to do it. I think we have fell away from the land of opportunity to the land of entitlements.

 

[Libertarian01]

To All,

As it is late I will try to address a few concerns brought up here that are interesting.

The first is how illegal immigrants "steal our jobs." While I certainly think this can happen there is an easily available solution to 100% guarantee that your job is never stolen by an illegal immigrant. Ready...?

Get a college degree!

How many illegal immigrants are chemical engineers? CPA's? How about pharmacists? What about a RN?
I didn't think so.

How many low paying jobs are really sought by middle class white Americans? Even the kids look down their noses at low paying, low skill entry level jobs.

Also, my mother who lived out on the farm remembers migrant farm workers (read: not American citizens) traveling around doing harvest work when she was young in the 1930's and 1940's.

Whether we want to admit it or not (and we do not) our economy has used these illegal, immigrant workers for decades to perform menial labor. After all, what are good ole' Americans supposed to use for cheap labor after Mr. Lincoln upset the apple cart?

As to the acquiring of fake Social Security numbers. This is true. It is also true that many employers who hire illegals must pay into SS with these numbers and AS the numbers are from illegal immigrants they will NEVER draw on the SS that they are paying for! As such SS receives a minor(?) increase in revenue flow as illegals pay into a program that they will never use.

Learning English. On this I agree 100%. Now let's all get our butts into the public and private schools and help teach! Have you HEARD some Americans speak today??? It is like Beavis married a techno geek girl and taught their child ebonics...!!! I would be happy if some white and black Americans spoke English! A complete sentence would be nice, ya know?

Seriously, I agree mostly. However, IF they bring over their 75+ year old grandma/grandpa I am more than willing to give them a pass.

Respect for America? Absolutely!!!

First thing we need to do in Fort Wayne is get rid of this Darn Germanfest!!! What are we thinking holding onto an old European county. We even fly many German flags here for a whole WEEK! There outta be a law...

I suppose that Germanfest sounds better than HoosierDaddy?

I bring up Germanfest because I think we have become somewhat desensitized to our connection to other cultures and the arrival of new immigrants is forcing a degree of cultural friction. Many don't even know that here in Fort Wayne Rudisill Blvd. is named after a Hetian officer from the Revolutionary War. What about Lafayette? Named after a French officer/noble.

The mixing of the drug trade w/ illegals is a weak argument. I don't normally push it be we would be so much better off if we would stop this damn drug war!!! The drug war permeates so much of our society and creates corruption in levels far above the minor involvement with illegal immigration that it needs to be kept on a separate topic. I will officially concede and agree that, "Yes, there are some drugs brought in by illegal immigrants." There are a hell of a lot more brought in by professional smugglers that the illegal immigrant w/ drugs is a minor issue.

I still believe that we need to solve the illegal problem and that I do not want people crossing the border illegally. I just want to emphasize the concept that the illegal immigrants are full of criminal intent. That is just nonsense, mostly.

Regards,

Doug

PS - I am also working w/ legal Burmese immigrants. While they are taking English classes they are shoveling horse crap and taking care of horses at a horse refuge farm. And w/ them I am learning Burmese, slowly!

PPS - Thank you for the kind and respectful disagreements. If we could only get congress to work like this...

 

[SavageEagle]

PS - I am also working w/ legal Burmese immigrants. While they are taking English classes they are shoveling horse crap and taking care of horses at a horse refuge farm. And w/ them I am learning Burmese, slowly!

I used to work with Burmese refugees at FoxConn. The company would hire them off the streets in their home Country, bring them here, shelter, clothe, and feed them, give them jobs here at the FoxConn plant and hire a few locals. They were all really nice and I made friends with a few of them while there.

After about 9 months there in 2008, they laid me off. As a matter of fact, they laid off every single local worker except for the office workers and supervisors, and a few select people. About 300 in all. It happened right after the economy tanked so they blamed it on that. I'm sorry, but they were building computers for Lockheed Martin, DoD, etc. There's no way they were hurting as a business. Anyone in the computer biz knows that there's not many computer products that DON'T have a FoxConn made piece in it.

I found out a month later that they brought in 150 more refugees from Africa.

I really miss that job. It was a lot of fun building and fixing $10K computers.

Oh, as to your comment about getting a college degree... it's not as simple as it sounds. That costs money and money is something a lot of people don't have a lot of. And I would love to have a minimum wage job. As long as I got money coming in. I worked in the Watermelon fields in So. In. and I'd do it again today. However, they hire many illegals and stopped hiring local kids to do the work. I guess it's better to be more cost effective hiring illegals than to teach kids to be responsible and learn to EARN money.