Springfield Loaded

[midget]

Let us know. My guns all feel different with the 2 systems in place. Could be my imagination but maybe not.

No, they definitely feel different. It is the same argument with the JP captured buffer spring on the AR.
Back when I shot single stack exclusively, I shot half a year with the standard GI setup and the switched to a full length system. I noticed the difference in the way the gun felt while shooting it... But it is hard to quantify the feeling...

 

[churchmouse]

No, they definitely feel different. It is the same argument with the JP captured buffer spring on the AR.
Back when I shot single stack exclusively, I shot half a year with the standard GI setup and the switched to a full length system. I noticed the difference in the way the gun felt while shooting it... But it is hard to quantify the feeling...

Stability maybe. My last steel challenge gun was compensated so it was easier to take down with the plug G-I style. I ran it both ways and it was just more comfortable to shoot with the guide rod.

 

[Drail]

The only difference I could see on all of the 1911s that came across my bench was that the wear on the recoil spring is changed from outside wear from the dust cover to inside wear from the FLGR. I didn't see any difference on spring life which is what Bill Wilson claimed when he started selling them. I figure a recoil spring is just a consumable part. You have to replace them regularly anyway. In the 90s our biggest selling product was FLGRs. We sold a LOT of them. Everybody HAVE to have one (because everybody else had one). I used them for 6 years of USPSA matches and I couldn't tell any difference when firing the gun. I could when I racked the slide manually. The additional "weight" was miniscule. Eventually I got tired of having to pack allen wrenches around and now all of my 1911s have G.I. rods and bull barrels. No tools required. The beat goes on. Run what ya brung and run it HARD!

 

[RMC]

Using an allen wrench to strip my SA Loaded has never bothered me at all. Mine is a tack-driver with a little over 2-lb trigger pull. I couldn't be happier.

pssssst........ Alan Moore helped a lot to make it just the way I wanted it.

 

[churchmouse]

The only difference I could see on all of the 1911s that came across my bench was that the wear on the recoil spring is changed from outside wear from the dust cover to inside wear from the FLGR. I didn't see any difference on spring life which is what Bill Wilson claimed when he started selling them. I figure a recoil spring is just a consumable part. You have to replace them regularly anyway. In the 90s our biggest selling product was FLGRs. We sold a LOT of them. Everybody HAVE to have one (because everybody else had one). I used them for 6 years of USPSA matches and I couldn't tell any difference when firing the gun. I could when I racked the slide manually. The additional "weight" was miniscule. Eventually I got tired of having to pack allen wrenches around and now all of my 1911s have G.I. rods and bull barrels. No tools required. The beat goes on. Run what ya brung and run it HARD!

Yup.....run it like ya stole it.

 

[mikestripe]

What about a Wilson FLGR that I don't need a wrench, would that work OK.

 

[churchmouse]

What about a Wilson FLGR that I don't need a wrench, would that work OK.

Absolutely. They are recessed enough to remove the barrel bushing and no wrenches required.

 

[mikestripe]

Just ordered a Wilson FLGR.

 

[VERT]

What about a Wilson FLGR that I don't need a wrench, would that work OK.

This is the way to go. I have the one piece guide in 4 of our 1911s. I would have one in the fifth gun as well but I needed to cut some weight to make the less then 43oz max for USPSA. I installed a standard plug on that gun and it works fine.

My recommendation is to order the Wilson one piece guide rod.

 

[VERT]

Just ordered a Wilson FLGR.

Beat me by a minute.

 

[ghitch75]

Absolutely. They are recessed enough to remove the barrel bushing and no wrenches required.

you can push that in with your finger??????........i must have sissy fingers!!!!!!!.......always needed something to push against it.......

as far as FLGR i got rid of all of mine.......i couldn't tell any difference

 

[churchmouse]

you can push that in with your finger??????........i must have sissy fingers!!!!!!!.......always needed something to push against it.......

as far as FLGR i got rid of all of mine.......i couldn't tell any difference

I have very tough thumbs.....

On my guns with hand fit bushings I sometimes need the wrench.

 

[midget]

I have very tough thumbs.....

On my guns with hand fit bushings I sometimes need the wrench.

I keep polymer bushing wrenches around so to deal with that...

 

[rvb]

2 piece guide rods suck.
There's too many good one-piece rods out there to need to screw w/ tools and dealing with locktite or risk having them shoot loose.

IMO the only appreciable difference in full length vs GI style is weight. Makes a minutia of difference in recoil. I used GIs in my carry guns and full length 1-piece in competition guns.

as far as needing calloused thumbs or tools to push the one-piece plugs and turn bushings, that's what the plastic basepads on mags are for.

-rvb

 

[churchmouse]

2 piece guide rods suck.
There's two many good one-piece rods out there to need to screw w/ tools and dealing with locktite or risk having them shoot loose.

IMO the only appreciable difference in full length vs GI style is weight. Makes a minutia of difference in recoil. I used GIs in my carry guns and full length 1-piece in competition guns.

as far as needing calloused thumbs or tools to push the one-piece plugs and turn bushings, that's what the plastic basepads on mags are for.

-rvb

But....but....I like the pain......

 

[Leo]

I had an opportunity to test the 9mm 1911 today. I used a one piece full length guide rod out of my .45 loaded in the 9mm. I also put the GI spring guide in the .45. I shot them both with a couple types of ammo.

I could not detect the difference in the .45 with either system. I used max load 230 gr and bullseye load 200 swc ammo. I think any variance in the slide operation happens too fast for me to detect with the fast moving slide on the .45.

I was definately able to feel a more controlled movement in the slide on the 9mm 1911 style pistol. Since the 9mm uses a really soft recoil spring, the forward movement of the silde is pretty slow. With the gi system, there was a different feel shot-to-shot with each slide movement. After adding the full length guide rod, the slide movment felt more controlled and smoother. This better feel was consistant on every shot. I used some target cast bullet loads and some +p 124 grain loads.

There was no decay or improvment in the accuracy of either pistol, as the bullet has already left the barrel by the time the sight alignment moves and the reciprocation of the slide begins. In the 9mm there is a detectable time improvement for the stabilization of the sight picture for the next shot. The same MAY be true in the .45, but I do not have the skills and reflexes to detect the difference. Maybe a really good action pistol guy could detect the difference.

To summerize, I do think the full length guide rod smooths out the movement of the slide. I prefer the one piece design that is a little easier to take down. I have a pistol with a two piece guide rod and it has never come loose or caused any issue in the 20 plus years of ownership. My 9mm 1911 will soon have a full length guide rod of it's own.

 

[churchmouse]

I had an opportunity to test the 9mm 1911 today. I used a one peace full length guide rod out of my .45 loaded in the 9mm. I also put the GI spring guide in the .45. I shot them both with a couple types of ammo.

I could not detect the difference in the .45 with either system. I used max load 230 gr and bullseye load 200 swc ammo. I think any variance in the slide operation happens too fast for me to detect with the fast moving slide on the .45.

I was definately able to feel a more controlled movement in the slide on the 9mm 1911 style pistol. Since the 9mm uses a really soft recoil spring, the forward movement of the silde is pretty slow. With the gi system, there was a different feel shot-to-shot with each slide movement. After adding the full length guide rod, the slide movment felt more controlled and smoother. This better feel was consistant on every shot. I used some target cast bullet loads and some +p 124 grain loads.

There was no decay or improvment in the accuracy of either pistol, as the bullet has already left the barrel by the time the sight alignment moves and the reciprocation of the slide begins. In the 9mm there is a detectable time improvement for the stabilization of the sight picture for the next shot. The same MAY be true in the .45, but I do not have the skills and reflexes to detect the difference. Maybe a really good action pistol guy could detect the difference.

To summerize, I do think the full length guide rod smooths out the movement of the slide. I prefer the one piece design that is a little easier to take down. I have a pistol with a two piece guide rod and it has never come loose or caused any issue in the 20 plus years of ownership. My 9mm 1911 will soon have a full length guide rod of it's own.

Makes perfect sense.
Question,
If you were not doing a test would you have been aware of the differences in the 2 systems.

 

[Leo]

Makes perfect sense.
Question,
If you were not doing a test would you have been aware of the differences in the 2 systems.

As humans, we have an amazing ability to learn and adapt. If I had not done a side by side test, I would have just kept shooting the 9mm 1911 and adapted to it's charactoristics with the attitude that "that is just the way that pistol feels". Experimentation allows us an opportunity expose how much we do adapt. By eliminating hinderences to performance, we have more subconscious processing power to work on other things, like really being able to shoot well. I really enjoy experimentation, not every experiment makes things better, I have ruined a few things over the years. ( Thinking of an old 396 Impala stopped by the roadside with pieces of connecting rod sticking out of the ripped metal that used to be an oil pan)

This was a simple, clearly defined test with a clear result. I like that kind.

 

[churchmouse]

As humans, we have an amazing ability to learn and adapt. If I had not done a side by side test, I would have just kept shooting the 9mm 1911 and adapted to it's charactoristics with the attitude that "that is just the way that pistol feels". Experimentation allows us an opportunity expose how much we do adapt. By eliminating hinderences to performance, we have more subconscious processing power to work on other things, like really being able to shoot well. I really enjoy experimentation, not every experiment makes things better, I have ruined a few things over the years. ( Thinking of an old 396 Impala stopped by the roadside with pieces of connecting rod sticking out of the ripped metal that used to be an oil pan)

This was a simple, clearly defined test with a clear result. I like that kind.

I see all of this of course. Also having scattered my fair share of small and big block rotating assembly's. Good ideas gone horribly wrong.

I was wondering if the difference would have been noticed if you had picked up a second similar gun with the FLGR and just casually shot it.
I have ran the same test with a compensated 1911 in .45 ACP and the gun just felt better with the FLGR or so it seemed to me at the time. You are verifying my experience.

 

[gstanley102]

I read this thread with interest last night.
I picked up a loaded in 9mm at the 1500.
This is only my second 1911 with a full length rod.

After reading this thread, and digesting it today, I decided to see if I could identify the value of the full length rod.
I satisfied my curiosity by dissembling the loaded, pulling the spring and rod out the fiddle with.
I am now convinced that the full length rod has value.

Here's how.
With a short guide rod in your left hand, the recoil spring installed, and the plug installed on the spring,
Push the plug towards the guide rod. Observe the spring.
Now do the same with a full length rod.

Al my 1911's are going to get the full length rod treatment.