Stand Down Grandpa!

[AZ Hunter]

Grandpa roughed up by police in Arizona Walmart

 

[public servant]

The news report I just heard said he was stealing merchandise and assaulted other customers.

 

[Benny]

The news report I just heard said he was stealing merchandise and assaulted other customers.

Do you have a link? If he was assaulting other customers and there were non-LEO witnesses, that would certainly change my view of the situation.

I hate thieves, but even if he was trying to steal that video game, that isn't a good enough reason to slam him on the ground if he wasn't resisting.

BTW,

The video shows Jerald Allen Newman, 54, unconscious and covered in blood after a police officer took him to the ground Thursday night.

Why isn't their video of what happened before he was unconscious and covered in blood?

 

[public servant]

Do you have a link? If he was assaulting other customers and their were non-LEO witnesses, that would certainly change my view of the situation.

I hate thieves, but even if he was trying to steal that video game, that isn't a good enough reason to slam him on the ground if he wasn't resisting.

BTW,

Why isn't their video of what happened before he was unconscious and covered in blood?

Sorry Benny. I don't have a link. It was on a local news report.

 

[UncleMike]

IMO
Even if the old guy was roughed up because the Police mistakenly thought he was going to steal the item that he put in his pants, he still gets the "Dumb Ass Of The Week" award for taking his grandchild to an event that he KNEW was going to be a stampede.
It's like taking part in the "Running Of The Bulls" in Spain.
Play stupid games.
Win stupid prizes.

 

[04DarkShadowGT]

Do you have a link? If he was assaulting other customers and there were non-LEO witnesses, that would certainly change my view of the situation.

I hate thieves, but even if he was trying to steal that video game, that isn't a good enough reason to slam him on the ground if he wasn't resisting.

BTW,



Why isn't their video of what happened before he was unconscious and covered in blood?

Yes it is. Jmo though, screw thieves.

 

[cobber]

I think he's not actually a thief until he passes the point of payment without trying to pay and leaves the store. While loss prevention could contact him before then, I don't think the bare information we have here would justify an arrest or 'assistance to the ground'.

Need more facts.

 

[Expat]

Grandfather injured, arrested in Walmart brawl - CNN.com

 

[dingodog]

I worked in loss prevention at a major retailer while going to college in the early 80's. Back then, a person did not shoplift until he passed the last point of payment. The reasoning was, there was nothing saying that the individual was not going to pay for the item before leaving the store. I think the policy was more of a legal CYA than anything. This case will prove interesting and is probably very far from over.

 

[Ricnzak]

I worked in loss prevention at a major retailer while going to college in the early 80's. Back then, a person did not shoplift until he passed the last point of payment. The reasoning was, there was nothing saying that the individual was not going to pay for the item before leaving the store. I think the policy was more of a legal CYA than anything. This case will prove interesting and is probably very far from over.

My understanding is that you are correct. I think gramps is going to get a nice first of the year bonus for this. If his daughter was on it she was getting witness names for the law suit.

 

[buford t justice]

There are so many things wrong with this,Black Friday,People stupid enough to riot for cheap Chinese mdse,man putting mdse. under shirt,overzealous cop playing MMA.,and Walmart for putting customers in harms way year after year.

 

[Phil502]

I worked in loss prevention at a major retailer while going to college in the early 80's. Back then, a person did not shoplift until he passed the last point of payment. The reasoning was, there was nothing saying that the individual was not going to pay for the item before leaving the store. I think the policy was more of a legal CYA than anything. This case will prove interesting and is probably very far from over.

Thats how I always understood it. I hope he gets a good payout.

 

[Expat]

I hope that rule hasn't changed. I have picked up a small item that I was going to get and after following the wife around for another half hour, it end up in my coat pocket. I always end up paying for it. I would hate to get clubbed to the ground for it.

 

[public servant]

There are so many things wrong with this,Black Friday,People stupid enough to riot for cheap Chinese mdse,man putting mdse. under shirt,overzealous cop playing MMA.,and Walmart for putting customers in harms way year after year.

It's Wal-Mart's fault? Really?

 

[UncleMike]

It's Wal-Mart's fault? Really?

Yes!!
How dare they expect people to act civilly!!!
Pepper spraying other people to get an X Box is perfectly OK.
Trampling other people to get "your share" of the bargains is perfectly OK.
They're "entitled" to those things.
The OWS people claim to be 99% of the population and they aren't civil in the least.



(God help our country)

 

[Dirtebiker]

What I heard on the news, the old man stuck the merchandise in his waistband to grab the child. They didn't say anything about him covering it with his shirt or trying to hide it, just that he needed his hands free to get the kid. Sounds reasonable to me. He probably didn't have a cart to put it in, during those sales you usually can't find a cart.
Even if he did intend on stealing the item, I've always heard that they wait for the thief to walk past the registers or out of the store before apprehending him.
Either way... With my limited knowledge of this, it seems the l.e.o. was WAY too aggressive!

 

[NYFelon]

Since I wasn't there I can't say for sure how I feel about this. However, from what I have read, and being very familiar with Expat's shared experiences, this doesn't bode well. I know for a fact I've put something into a back pocket, or a coat pocket after following the wife around, or escorting my son to the lavatory. There's no real way the police could have shown intent with the man inside the store. This story is ugly. It's ugly and it's sad.

 

[buford t justice]

It's Wal-Mart's fault? Really?

If you or I just your average citizen were to put on some kind of event that ended similarly you can bet we would be cited for inciting a riot.

 

[littletommy]

If I saw a cop throw my grandpa to the ground..........

 

[AZ Hunter]

So my fellow co-workers and I had a long discussion about this including breaking out the Arizona Revised Statutes book. In the state of AZ, a person who conceals an item without first paying for it, is committing the act of shoplifting. I will post a link to the code. Essentially Johnny do gooder, needs to scratch his head and puts his candy bar in his pocket to do it, just committed shoplifting by concealment. Whether he passed the registers or not.

Now, I do not believe shoplifting constitutes throwing an old man to the ground.

ARS 13-1805 Take note of subsection "B-1"

13-1805 - Shoplifting; detaining suspect; defense to wrongful detention; civil action by merchant; public services; classification