Stand your ground law and my unfortunate situation with "new neighbor"

[churchmouse]

 

[hopper68]

Sissy.....

R-r-r-reported!

CM was not calling names, he was just having a Family Affair flashback.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amIeOmMO7G8

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

WOW. The years haven't been kind to Sissy...

 

[bradmedic04]

My kid has a cold, and it made me think of Sneeze.

 

[jamil]

I have a cold and it never crossed my mind.

 

[gjclark]

"We'll call him 'sneeze'" ... I've followed this thread since its inception and it just now dawned on me that he chose to refer to this guy as sneeze... Wut? Out of all things... Sneeze?

 

[bradmedic04]

"We'll call him 'sneeze'" ... I've followed this thread since its inception and it just now dawned on me that he chose to refer to this guy as sneeze... Wut? Out of all things... Sneeze?

Better late that never?

You must have thought people were really obsessed with referring to their own nasal allergies.

 

[chezuki]

Wut? Out of all things... Sneeze?

Not that uncommon of a moniker for a coke head/dealer.

 

[gjclark]

No no, I knew we were talking about a guy but I guess it never struck me how strange it was that he chose sneeze over any number of other pseudonyms

 

[gjclark]

Not that uncommon of a moniker for a coke head/dealer.

Well, I'm proud to say I didn't know that. INGO Sure is educational though!

 

[Webster-dl]

Hmm...first off...I'm not a lawyer. Just a guy on the internet...so take with lump of salt.

From my perspective:
1) I dunno...maybe police on here can chime in...I think it may be of benefit to contact your friendly local police department and discuss your concerns. Mention that you just want him to leave you alone, and you are looking into a restraining order and want to know what your options are. Let them know trouble is brewing and let them know your concerns. I just reviewed the law re: restraining orders and stalking, and it appears that if he does something that can be construed as harrassment/stalking (keeps trying to talk to you when you tell him to leave you alone), then you may be able to get one. You already are clearly very intimidated/afraid and feel threatened. The restraining order can help establish you as being in the right here. And if he violates a restraining order, maybe that will be enough to get him sent back to the pokey (don't know). Maybe talk to his parole officer.

Please don't take the part about being "afraid" as belittling...it is the farthest thing from that. It is SMART. You want to establish that you are intimidated by this man and just want him to leave you alone. If this goes to a violent conclusion and you are forced to defend yourself and he dies, then you want the court to see that you were doing everything you could to stay away from him and get him to leave you alone. Even that you were intimidated by him and wanted nothing to do with him. Then they will see that you truly were forced by his actions to take lethal action, and that you were truly, truly afraid for yourself and your family. That is the best way to hopefully avoid any sort of prosecution. And besides...only a fool wouldn't be afraid in this situation. That's just your survival instinct talking to you.

I am reminded of a case -- lady called 911, and 911 was on the phone. She was clearly terrified that someone was trying to break into her house. (911 gave her the STUPID advice to put her gun down, but we will leave that for another time). She was screaming that he was breaking the window and coming in, then she fired with her .38. The perp was hit, staggered into the yard, fell over dead. For several reasons, this case went absolutely nowhere.

You may want to consult an attorney about the restraining order.

BTW: I realize that the restraining order might not do anything to stop him, but a violation might land him in the pokey, as I mentioned, and the order will also serve to help demonstrate that you are doing everything you can to legally get him to leave you alone, including going to law enforcement. As far as I know, in cases where a person with a restraining order shoots someone against whom they had a restraining order...well, that seems to weigh heavily in the court/DA's decision.

2) Other than letting him know in polite and firm terms that you want to be left alone if he tries to talk to you, I would try to avoid him. Maybe let him know once that you want to be left alone, and if he persists, maybe you can make a harrassment/stalking justification for a restraining order. Make it clear you are TRYING to have NOTHING to do with him. Don't hang out with him...or the jury may say "well, if he was REALLY afraid, why did he hang out with him? I think it was just a disagreement that went bad."

3) I agree with carrying your defensive weapon, at all times if possible. This situation isn't great, and you may have little to no warning before you may need it.

4) If at all possible, don't hang out outside, and keep your family inside. If something goes down, if at all possible, get inside and lock your door (and probably take cover, if the situation is bad). And then call 911. Not only will the door slow him down/obscure his vision, legally speaking if he breaks down your door, your justification for lethal force just went y up. And then you can also put "the fatal funnel" into effect. If you have time, consider having a long arm secured nearby as well...he may need a big boomstick to stop decisively.

5) From what I've read (again, not a lawyer)...yes, the fact that he heavily outweighs you and presumably has a history of violent crime (and you hopefully have no violent criminal record and hopefully no record at all), that appears to be disparity of force. If he tries to attack you, even if he is unarmed, I think there would likely be a strong argument for severe disparity of force here and justification for lethal force. Especially if he has stated intent to severely harm or kill you or your family, and you have proof or witnesses.

Last thing...I know it is slight comfort, but from a third party observer (based on what you told me): 300 pound drug-dealer felon with severe history of resisting arrest just out of jail for big-time drug dealing/resisting arrest vs. 150 lb. homeowner and family man who is terrified of him...without knowing anything else, if they find him dead in the street and you holding the gun, there seems to be "reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury". And from the perspective of the police: You are a family man, homeowner, and taxpayer. Your taxes pay their salary, the salaries of the new cops they need to fill their ranks, buy them body armor and new equipment and other things that help them do their job safely. He is a big time drug-dealer/criminal/felon who already put other officers' lives at risk by resisting arrest, and sounds like a problem waiting to happen. I think, all other things being equal, they likely identify more with you than with him, and will likely be inclined to help you if they can, and nip this problem in the bud at the same time. At least I hope so.

If I were he, I would be very careful of how I spoke to you and comported myself, taking the extra mile so that no one could construe my actions as threatening. Because the cops, DA, general public, won't be inclined to take my side in any dispute, and I would be worried about ending up in the pokey again if I so much as looked at you wrong.

Anyways...one more time...NOT A LAWYER...but you may want to consult one (if nothing else, it shows you are worried and looking for lawful nonviolent ways to protect yourself). God bless, be safe.



[h=1]Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor[/h]
[h=3]Search Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor[/h]

(a) A person who is or has been a victim of domestic or family violence may file a petition for an order for protection against a:
(1) family or household member who commits an act of domestic or family violence; or
(2) person who has committed stalking under IC 35-45-10-5 or a sex offense under IC 35-42-4 against the petitioner.
(b) A parent, a guardian, or another representative may file a petition for an order for protection on behalf of a child against a:
(1) family or household member who commits an act of domestic or family violence; or
(2) person who has committed stalking under IC 35-45-10-5 or a sex offense under IC 35-42-4 against the child.
(c) A court may issue only one (1) order for each respondent. If a petitioner files a petition against more than one (1) respondent, the court shall:
(1) assign a new case number; and
(2) maintain a separate court file;
for each respondent.
(d) If a petitioner seeks relief against an unemancipated minor, the case may originate in any court of record and, if it is an emergency matter, be processed the same as an ex parte petition. When a hearing is set, the matter may be transferred to a court with juvenile jurisdiction.
As added by P.L.133-2002, SEC.56.

- See more at: Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor


IC 35-45-10
Chapter 10. Stalking

IC 35-45-10-0.1
Repealed
(Repealed by P.L.63-2012, SEC.63.)

IC 35-45-10-1
"Stalk" defined
Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "stalk" means a knowing or an intentional course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment of another person that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened. The term does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.
IC 35-45-10-2
"Harassment" defined
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "harassment" means conduct directed toward a victim that includes but is not limited to repeated or continuing impermissible contact that would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity, such as lawful picketing pursuant to labor disputes or lawful employer-related activities pursuant to labor disputes.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-3
"Impermissible contact" defined
Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "impermissible contact" includes but is not limited to knowingly or intentionally following or pursuing the victim.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-4
"Victim" defined
Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "victim" means a person who is the object of stalking.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-5 Version a
Criminal stalking
Note: This version of section effective until 7-1-2014. See also following version of this section, effective 7-1-2014.
Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking, a Class D felony.
(b) The offense is a Class C felony if at least one (1) of the
following applies:
(1) A person:
(A) stalks a victim; and
(B) makes an explicit or an implicit threat with the intent to place the victim in reasonable fear of:
(i) sexual battery (as defined in IC 35-42-4-8);
(ii) serious bodily injury; or
(iii) death.
(2) A protective order to prevent domestic or family violence, a no contact order, or other judicial order under any of the following statutes has been issued by the court to protect the same victim or victims from the person and the person has been given actual notice of the order:
(A) IC 31-15 and IC 34-26-5 or IC 31-1-11.5 before its repeal (dissolution of marriage and legal separation).
(B) IC 31-34, IC 31-37, or IC 31-6-4 before its repeal (delinquent children and children in need of services).
(C) IC 31-32 or IC 31-6-7 before its repeal (procedure in juvenile court).
(D) IC 34-26-5 or IC 34-26-2 and IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal (protective order to prevent abuse).
(E) IC 34-26-6 (workplace violence restraining orders).
(3) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(4) The person's stalking of another person violates a no contact order issued as a condition of probation if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(5) The person's stalking of another person violates a protective order issued under IC 31-14-16-1 and IC 34-26-5 in a paternity action if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(6) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued in another state that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(7) The person's stalking of another person violates an order that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) and is issued by an Indian:
(A) tribe;
(B) band;
(C) pueblo;
(D) nation; or
(E) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians if the person has been given actual
notice of the order.
(8) A criminal complaint of stalking that concerns an act by the person against the same victim or victims is pending in a court and the person has been given actual notice of the complaint.
(c) The offense is a Class B felony if:
(1) the act or acts were committed while the person was armed with a deadly weapon; or
(2) the person has an unrelated conviction for an offense under this section against the same victim or victims.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor and sentence accordingly if the court finds mitigating circumstances. The court may consider the mitigating circumstances in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) in making a determination under this subsection. However, the criteria listed in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) do not limit the matters the court may consider in making its determination.
(e) Notwithstanding subsection (b), the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class D felony and sentence accordingly if the court finds mitigating circumstances. The court may consider the mitigating circumstances in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) in making a determination under this subsection. However, the criteria listed in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) do not limit the matters the court may consider in making its determination.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.225-1996, SEC.1; P.L.1-1997, SEC.150; P.L.1-1998, SEC.198; P.L.280-2001, SEC.52; P.L.133-2002, SEC.66.

IC 35-45-10-5 Version b
Criminal stalking
Note: This version of section effective 7-1-2014. See also preceding version of this section, effective until 7-1-2014.
Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking, a Level 6 felony.
(b) The offense is a Level 5 felony if at least one (1) of the following applies:
(1) A person:
(A) stalks a victim; and
(B) makes an explicit or an implicit threat with the intent to place the victim in reasonable fear of:
(i) sexual battery (as defined in IC 35-42-4-8);
(ii) serious bodily injury; or
(iii) death.
(2) A protective order to prevent domestic or family violence, a no contact order, or other judicial order under any of the following statutes has been issued by the court to protect the same victim or victims from the person and the person has been given actual notice of the order:
(A) IC 31-15 and IC 34-26-5 or IC 31-1-11.5 before its repeal (dissolution of marriage and legal separation).
(B) IC 31-34, IC 31-37, or IC 31-6-4 before its repeal
(delinquent children and children in need of services).
(C) IC 31-32 or IC 31-6-7 before its repeal (procedure in juvenile court).
(D) IC 34-26-5 or IC 34-26-2 and IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal (protective order to prevent abuse).
(E) IC 34-26-6 (workplace violence restraining orders).
(3) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(4) The person's stalking of another person violates a no contact order issued as a condition of probation if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(5) The person's stalking of another person violates a protective order issued under IC 31-14-16-1 and IC 34-26-5 in a paternity action if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(6) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued in another state that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(7) The person's stalking of another person violates an order that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) and is issued by an Indian:
(A) tribe;
(B) band;
(C) pueblo;
(D) nation; or
(E) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(8) A criminal complaint of stalking that concerns an act by the person against the same victim or victims is pending in a court and the person has been given actual notice of the complaint.
(c) The offense is a Level 4 felony if:
(1) the act or acts were committed while the person was armed with a deadly weapon; or
(2) the person has an unrelated conviction for an offense under this section against the same victim or victims.

 

[Webster-dl]

Oops...sorry...late reply. All this probably already posted...or situation resolved. Sorry all!

 

[actaeon277]

Oops...sorry...late reply. All this probably already posted...or situation resolved. Sorry all!

But it was a hell of a post.
Research and everything.

 

[Dead Duck]

Hmm...first off...I'm not a lawyer. Just a guy on the internet...so take with lump of salt.

From my perspective:
1) I dunno...maybe police on here can chime in...I think it may be of benefit to contact your friendly local police department and discuss your concerns. Mention that you just want him to leave you alone, and you are looking into a restraining order and want to know what your options are. Let them know trouble is brewing and let them know your concerns. I just reviewed the law re: restraining orders and stalking, and it appears that if he does something that can be construed as harrassment/stalking (keeps trying to talk to you when you tell him to leave you alone), then you may be able to get one. You already are clearly very intimidated/afraid and feel threatened. The restraining order can help establish you as being in the right here. And if he violates a restraining order, maybe that will be enough to get him sent back to the pokey (don't know). Maybe talk to his parole officer.

Please don't take the part about being "afraid" as belittling...it is the farthest thing from that. It is SMART. You want to establish that you are intimidated by this man and just want him to leave you alone. If this goes to a violent conclusion and you are forced to defend yourself and he dies, then you want the court to see that you were doing everything you could to stay away from him and get him to leave you alone. Even that you were intimidated by him and wanted nothing to do with him. Then they will see that you truly were forced by his actions to take lethal action, and that you were truly, truly afraid for yourself and your family. That is the best way to hopefully avoid any sort of prosecution. And besides...only a fool wouldn't be afraid in this situation. That's just your survival instinct talking to you.

I am reminded of a case -- lady called 911, and 911 was on the phone. She was clearly terrified that someone was trying to break into her house. (911 gave her the STUPID advice to put her gun down, but we will leave that for another time). She was screaming that he was breaking the window and coming in, then she fired with her .38. The perp was hit, staggered into the yard, fell over dead. For several reasons, this case went absolutely nowhere.

You may want to consult an attorney about the restraining order.

BTW: I realize that the restraining order might not do anything to stop him, but a violation might land him in the pokey, as I mentioned, and the order will also serve to help demonstrate that you are doing everything you can to legally get him to leave you alone, including going to law enforcement. As far as I know, in cases where a person with a restraining order shoots someone against whom they had a restraining order...well, that seems to weigh heavily in the court/DA's decision.

2) Other than letting him know in polite and firm terms that you want to be left alone if he tries to talk to you, I would try to avoid him. Maybe let him know once that you want to be left alone, and if he persists, maybe you can make a harrassment/stalking justification for a restraining order. Make it clear you are TRYING to have NOTHING to do with him. Don't hang out with him...or the jury may say "well, if he was REALLY afraid, why did he hang out with him? I think it was just a disagreement that went bad."

3) I agree with carrying your defensive weapon, at all times if possible. This situation isn't great, and you may have little to no warning before you may need it.

4) If at all possible, don't hang out outside, and keep your family inside. If something goes down, if at all possible, get inside and lock your door (and probably take cover, if the situation is bad). And then call 911. Not only will the door slow him down/obscure his vision, legally speaking if he breaks down your door, your justification for lethal force just went y up. And then you can also put "the fatal funnel" into effect. If you have time, consider having a long arm secured nearby as well...he may need a big boomstick to stop decisively.

5) From what I've read (again, not a lawyer)...yes, the fact that he heavily outweighs you and presumably has a history of violent crime (and you hopefully have no violent criminal record and hopefully no record at all), that appears to be disparity of force. If he tries to attack you, even if he is unarmed, I think there would likely be a strong argument for severe disparity of force here and justification for lethal force. Especially if he has stated intent to severely harm or kill you or your family, and you have proof or witnesses.

Last thing...I know it is slight comfort, but from a third party observer (based on what you told me): 300 pound drug-dealer felon with severe history of resisting arrest just out of jail for big-time drug dealing/resisting arrest vs. 150 lb. homeowner and family man who is terrified of him...without knowing anything else, if they find him dead in the street and you holding the gun, there seems to be "reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury". And from the perspective of the police: You are a family man, homeowner, and taxpayer. Your taxes pay their salary, the salaries of the new cops they need to fill their ranks, buy them body armor and new equipment and other things that help them do their job safely. He is a big time drug-dealer/criminal/felon who already put other officers' lives at risk by resisting arrest, and sounds like a problem waiting to happen. I think, all other things being equal, they likely identify more with you than with him, and will likely be inclined to help you if they can, and nip this problem in the bud at the same time. At least I hope so.

If I were he, I would be very careful of how I spoke to you and comported myself, taking the extra mile so that no one could construe my actions as threatening. Because the cops, DA, general public, won't be inclined to take my side in any dispute, and I would be worried about ending up in the pokey again if I so much as looked at you wrong.

Anyways...one more time...NOT A LAWYER...but you may want to consult one (if nothing else, it shows you are worried and looking for lawful nonviolent ways to protect yourself). God bless, be safe.



Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor


Search Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor



(a) A person who is or has been a victim of domestic or family violence may file a petition for an order for protection against a:
(1) family or household member who commits an act of domestic or family violence; or
(2) person who has committed stalking under IC 35-45-10-5 or a sex offense under IC 35-42-4 against the petitioner.
(b) A parent, a guardian, or another representative may file a petition for an order for protection on behalf of a child against a:
(1) family or household member who commits an act of domestic or family violence; or
(2) person who has committed stalking under IC 35-45-10-5 or a sex offense under IC 35-42-4 against the child.
(c) A court may issue only one (1) order for each respondent. If a petitioner files a petition against more than one (1) respondent, the court shall:
(1) assign a new case number; and
(2) maintain a separate court file;
for each respondent.
(d) If a petitioner seeks relief against an unemancipated minor, the case may originate in any court of record and, if it is an emergency matter, be processed the same as an ex parte petition. When a hearing is set, the matter may be transferred to a court with juvenile jurisdiction.
As added by P.L.133-2002, SEC.56.

- See more at: Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor


IC 35-45-10
Chapter 10. Stalking

IC 35-45-10-0.1
Repealed
(Repealed by P.L.63-2012, SEC.63.)

IC 35-45-10-1
"Stalk" defined
Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "stalk" means a knowing or an intentional course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment of another person that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened. The term does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.
IC 35-45-10-2
"Harassment" defined
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "harassment" means conduct directed toward a victim that includes but is not limited to repeated or continuing impermissible contact that would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity, such as lawful picketing pursuant to labor disputes or lawful employer-related activities pursuant to labor disputes.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-3
"Impermissible contact" defined
Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "impermissible contact" includes but is not limited to knowingly or intentionally following or pursuing the victim.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-4
"Victim" defined
Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "victim" means a person who is the object of stalking.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-5 Version a
Criminal stalking
Note: This version of section effective until 7-1-2014. See also following version of this section, effective 7-1-2014.
Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking, a Class D felony.
(b) The offense is a Class C felony if at least one (1) of the
following applies:
(1) A person:
(A) stalks a victim; and
(B) makes an explicit or an implicit threat with the intent to place the victim in reasonable fear of:
(i) sexual battery (as defined in IC 35-42-4-8);
(ii) serious bodily injury; or
(iii) death.
(2) A protective order to prevent domestic or family violence, a no contact order, or other judicial order under any of the following statutes has been issued by the court to protect the same victim or victims from the person and the person has been given actual notice of the order:
(A) IC 31-15 and IC 34-26-5 or IC 31-1-11.5 before its repeal (dissolution of marriage and legal separation).
(B) IC 31-34, IC 31-37, or IC 31-6-4 before its repeal (delinquent children and children in need of services).
(C) IC 31-32 or IC 31-6-7 before its repeal (procedure in juvenile court).
(D) IC 34-26-5 or IC 34-26-2 and IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal (protective order to prevent abuse).
(E) IC 34-26-6 (workplace violence restraining orders).
(3) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(4) The person's stalking of another person violates a no contact order issued as a condition of probation if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(5) The person's stalking of another person violates a protective order issued under IC 31-14-16-1 and IC 34-26-5 in a paternity action if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(6) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued in another state that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(7) The person's stalking of another person violates an order that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) and is issued by an Indian:
(A) tribe;
(B) band;
(C) pueblo;
(D) nation; or
(E) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians if the person has been given actual
notice of the order.
(8) A criminal complaint of stalking that concerns an act by the person against the same victim or victims is pending in a court and the person has been given actual notice of the complaint.
(c) The offense is a Class B felony if:
(1) the act or acts were committed while the person was armed with a deadly weapon; or
(2) the person has an unrelated conviction for an offense under this section against the same victim or victims.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor and sentence accordingly if the court finds mitigating circumstances. The court may consider the mitigating circumstances in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) in making a determination under this subsection. However, the criteria listed in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) do not limit the matters the court may consider in making its determination.
(e) Notwithstanding subsection (b), the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class D felony and sentence accordingly if the court finds mitigating circumstances. The court may consider the mitigating circumstances in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) in making a determination under this subsection. However, the criteria listed in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) do not limit the matters the court may consider in making its determination.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.225-1996, SEC.1; P.L.1-1997, SEC.150; P.L.1-1998, SEC.198; P.L.280-2001, SEC.52; P.L.133-2002, SEC.66.

IC 35-45-10-5 Version b
Criminal stalking
Note: This version of section effective 7-1-2014. See also preceding version of this section, effective until 7-1-2014.
Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking, a Level 6 felony.
(b) The offense is a Level 5 felony if at least one (1) of the following applies:
(1) A person:
(A) stalks a victim; and
(B) makes an explicit or an implicit threat with the intent to place the victim in reasonable fear of:
(i) sexual battery (as defined in IC 35-42-4-8);
(ii) serious bodily injury; or
(iii) death.
(2) A protective order to prevent domestic or family violence, a no contact order, or other judicial order under any of the following statutes has been issued by the court to protect the same victim or victims from the person and the person has been given actual notice of the order:
(A) IC 31-15 and IC 34-26-5 or IC 31-1-11.5 before its repeal (dissolution of marriage and legal separation).
(B) IC 31-34, IC 31-37, or IC 31-6-4 before its repeal
(delinquent children and children in need of services).
(C) IC 31-32 or IC 31-6-7 before its repeal (procedure in juvenile court).
(D) IC 34-26-5 or IC 34-26-2 and IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal (protective order to prevent abuse).
(E) IC 34-26-6 (workplace violence restraining orders).
(3) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(4) The person's stalking of another person violates a no contact order issued as a condition of probation if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(5) The person's stalking of another person violates a protective order issued under IC 31-14-16-1 and IC 34-26-5 in a paternity action if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(6) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued in another state that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(7) The person's stalking of another person violates an order that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) and is issued by an Indian:
(A) tribe;
(B) band;
(C) pueblo;
(D) nation; or
(E) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(8) A criminal complaint of stalking that concerns an act by the person against the same victim or victims is pending in a court and the person has been given actual notice of the complaint.
(c) The offense is a Level 4 felony if:
(1) the act or acts were committed while the person was armed with a deadly weapon; or
(2) the person has an unrelated conviction for an offense under this section against the same victim or victims.

I think we have a RUNNER boys...

 

[chezuki]

Hmm...first off...I'm not a lawyer. Just a guy on the internet...so take with lump of salt.

From my perspective:
1) I dunno...maybe police on here can chime in...I think it may be of benefit to contact your friendly local police department and discuss your concerns. Mention that you just want him to leave you alone, and you are looking into a restraining order and want to know what your options are. Let them know trouble is brewing and let them know your concerns. I just reviewed the law re: restraining orders and stalking, and it appears that if he does something that can be construed as harrassment/stalking (keeps trying to talk to you when you tell him to leave you alone), then you may be able to get one. You already are clearly very intimidated/afraid and feel threatened. The restraining order can help establish you as being in the right here. And if he violates a restraining order, maybe that will be enough to get him sent back to the pokey (don't know). Maybe talk to his parole officer.

Please don't take the part about being "afraid" as belittling...it is the farthest thing from that. It is SMART. You want to establish that you are intimidated by this man and just want him to leave you alone. If this goes to a violent conclusion and you are forced to defend yourself and he dies, then you want the court to see that you were doing everything you could to stay away from him and get him to leave you alone. Even that you were intimidated by him and wanted nothing to do with him. Then they will see that you truly were forced by his actions to take lethal action, and that you were truly, truly afraid for yourself and your family. That is the best way to hopefully avoid any sort of prosecution. And besides...only a fool wouldn't be afraid in this situation. That's just your survival instinct talking to you.

I am reminded of a case -- lady called 911, and 911 was on the phone. She was clearly terrified that someone was trying to break into her house. (911 gave her the STUPID advice to put her gun down, but we will leave that for another time). She was screaming that he was breaking the window and coming in, then she fired with her .38. The perp was hit, staggered into the yard, fell over dead. For several reasons, this case went absolutely nowhere.

You may want to consult an attorney about the restraining order.

BTW: I realize that the restraining order might not do anything to stop him, but a violation might land him in the pokey, as I mentioned, and the order will also serve to help demonstrate that you are doing everything you can to legally get him to leave you alone, including going to law enforcement. As far as I know, in cases where a person with a restraining order shoots someone against whom they had a restraining order...well, that seems to weigh heavily in the court/DA's decision.

2) Other than letting him know in polite and firm terms that you want to be left alone if he tries to talk to you, I would try to avoid him. Maybe let him know once that you want to be left alone, and if he persists, maybe you can make a harrassment/stalking justification for a restraining order. Make it clear you are TRYING to have NOTHING to do with him. Don't hang out with him...or the jury may say "well, if he was REALLY afraid, why did he hang out with him? I think it was just a disagreement that went bad."

3) I agree with carrying your defensive weapon, at all times if possible. This situation isn't great, and you may have little to no warning before you may need it.

4) If at all possible, don't hang out outside, and keep your family inside. If something goes down, if at all possible, get inside and lock your door (and probably take cover, if the situation is bad). And then call 911. Not only will the door slow him down/obscure his vision, legally speaking if he breaks down your door, your justification for lethal force just went y up. And then you can also put "the fatal funnel" into effect. If you have time, consider having a long arm secured nearby as well...he may need a big boomstick to stop decisively.

5) From what I've read (again, not a lawyer)...yes, the fact that he heavily outweighs you and presumably has a history of violent crime (and you hopefully have no violent criminal record and hopefully no record at all), that appears to be disparity of force. If he tries to attack you, even if he is unarmed, I think there would likely be a strong argument for severe disparity of force here and justification for lethal force. Especially if he has stated intent to severely harm or kill you or your family, and you have proof or witnesses.

Last thing...I know it is slight comfort, but from a third party observer (based on what you told me): 300 pound drug-dealer felon with severe history of resisting arrest just out of jail for big-time drug dealing/resisting arrest vs. 150 lb. homeowner and family man who is terrified of him...without knowing anything else, if they find him dead in the street and you holding the gun, there seems to be "reasonable fear of death or grave bodily injury". And from the perspective of the police: You are a family man, homeowner, and taxpayer. Your taxes pay their salary, the salaries of the new cops they need to fill their ranks, buy them body armor and new equipment and other things that help them do their job safely. He is a big time drug-dealer/criminal/felon who already put other officers' lives at risk by resisting arrest, and sounds like a problem waiting to happen. I think, all other things being equal, they likely identify more with you than with him, and will likely be inclined to help you if they can, and nip this problem in the bud at the same time. At least I hope so.

If I were he, I would be very careful of how I spoke to you and comported myself, taking the extra mile so that no one could construe my actions as threatening. Because the cops, DA, general public, won't be inclined to take my side in any dispute, and I would be worried about ending up in the pokey again if I so much as looked at you wrong.

Anyways...one more time...NOT A LAWYER...but you may want to consult one (if nothing else, it shows you are worried and looking for lawful nonviolent ways to protect yourself). God bless, be safe.



[h=1]Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor[/h]
[h=3]Search Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor[/h]

(a) A person who is or has been a victim of domestic or family violence may file a petition for an order for protection against a:
(1) family or household member who commits an act of domestic or family violence; or
(2) person who has committed stalking under IC 35-45-10-5 or a sex offense under IC 35-42-4 against the petitioner.
(b) A parent, a guardian, or another representative may file a petition for an order for protection on behalf of a child against a:
(1) family or household member who commits an act of domestic or family violence; or
(2) person who has committed stalking under IC 35-45-10-5 or a sex offense under IC 35-42-4 against the child.
(c) A court may issue only one (1) order for each respondent. If a petitioner files a petition against more than one (1) respondent, the court shall:
(1) assign a new case number; and
(2) maintain a separate court file;
for each respondent.
(d) If a petitioner seeks relief against an unemancipated minor, the case may originate in any court of record and, if it is an emergency matter, be processed the same as an ex parte petition. When a hearing is set, the matter may be transferred to a court with juvenile jurisdiction.
As added by P.L.133-2002, SEC.56.

- See more at: Ind. Code § 34-26-5-2 : Indiana Code - Section 34-26-5-2: Persons eligible to file petition for order of protection; petition on behalf of a child; prohibition on mutual orders; jurisdiction for order sought against a minor


IC 35-45-10
Chapter 10. Stalking

IC 35-45-10-0.1
Repealed
(Repealed by P.L.63-2012, SEC.63.)

IC 35-45-10-1
"Stalk" defined
Sec. 1. As used in this chapter, "stalk" means a knowing or an intentional course of conduct involving repeated or continuing harassment of another person that would cause a reasonable person to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened and that actually causes the victim to feel terrorized, frightened, intimidated, or threatened. The term does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.
IC 35-45-10-2
"Harassment" defined
Sec. 2. As used in this chapter, "harassment" means conduct directed toward a victim that includes but is not limited to repeated or continuing impermissible contact that would cause a reasonable person to suffer emotional distress and that actually causes the victim to suffer emotional distress. Harassment does not include statutorily or constitutionally protected activity, such as lawful picketing pursuant to labor disputes or lawful employer-related activities pursuant to labor disputes.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-3
"Impermissible contact" defined
Sec. 3. As used in this chapter, "impermissible contact" includes but is not limited to knowingly or intentionally following or pursuing the victim.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-4
"Victim" defined
Sec. 4. As used in this chapter, "victim" means a person who is the object of stalking.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4.

IC 35-45-10-5 Version a
Criminal stalking
Note: This version of section effective until 7-1-2014. See also following version of this section, effective 7-1-2014.
Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking, a Class D felony.
(b) The offense is a Class C felony if at least one (1) of the
following applies:
(1) A person:
(A) stalks a victim; and
(B) makes an explicit or an implicit threat with the intent to place the victim in reasonable fear of:
(i) sexual battery (as defined in IC 35-42-4-8);
(ii) serious bodily injury; or
(iii) death.
(2) A protective order to prevent domestic or family violence, a no contact order, or other judicial order under any of the following statutes has been issued by the court to protect the same victim or victims from the person and the person has been given actual notice of the order:
(A) IC 31-15 and IC 34-26-5 or IC 31-1-11.5 before its repeal (dissolution of marriage and legal separation).
(B) IC 31-34, IC 31-37, or IC 31-6-4 before its repeal (delinquent children and children in need of services).
(C) IC 31-32 or IC 31-6-7 before its repeal (procedure in juvenile court).
(D) IC 34-26-5 or IC 34-26-2 and IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal (protective order to prevent abuse).
(E) IC 34-26-6 (workplace violence restraining orders).
(3) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(4) The person's stalking of another person violates a no contact order issued as a condition of probation if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(5) The person's stalking of another person violates a protective order issued under IC 31-14-16-1 and IC 34-26-5 in a paternity action if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(6) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued in another state that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(7) The person's stalking of another person violates an order that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) and is issued by an Indian:
(A) tribe;
(B) band;
(C) pueblo;
(D) nation; or
(E) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians if the person has been given actual
notice of the order.
(8) A criminal complaint of stalking that concerns an act by the person against the same victim or victims is pending in a court and the person has been given actual notice of the complaint.
(c) The offense is a Class B felony if:
(1) the act or acts were committed while the person was armed with a deadly weapon; or
(2) the person has an unrelated conviction for an offense under this section against the same victim or victims.
(d) Notwithstanding subsection (a), the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class A misdemeanor and sentence accordingly if the court finds mitigating circumstances. The court may consider the mitigating circumstances in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) in making a determination under this subsection. However, the criteria listed in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) do not limit the matters the court may consider in making its determination.
(e) Notwithstanding subsection (b), the court may enter judgment of conviction of a Class D felony and sentence accordingly if the court finds mitigating circumstances. The court may consider the mitigating circumstances in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) in making a determination under this subsection. However, the criteria listed in IC 35-38-1-7.1(c) do not limit the matters the court may consider in making its determination.
As added by P.L.242-1993, SEC.4. Amended by P.L.225-1996, SEC.1; P.L.1-1997, SEC.150; P.L.1-1998, SEC.198; P.L.280-2001, SEC.52; P.L.133-2002, SEC.66.

IC 35-45-10-5 Version b
Criminal stalking
Note: This version of section effective 7-1-2014. See also preceding version of this section, effective until 7-1-2014.
Sec. 5. (a) A person who stalks another person commits stalking, a Level 6 felony.
(b) The offense is a Level 5 felony if at least one (1) of the following applies:
(1) A person:
(A) stalks a victim; and
(B) makes an explicit or an implicit threat with the intent to place the victim in reasonable fear of:
(i) sexual battery (as defined in IC 35-42-4-8);
(ii) serious bodily injury; or
(iii) death.
(2) A protective order to prevent domestic or family violence, a no contact order, or other judicial order under any of the following statutes has been issued by the court to protect the same victim or victims from the person and the person has been given actual notice of the order:
(A) IC 31-15 and IC 34-26-5 or IC 31-1-11.5 before its repeal (dissolution of marriage and legal separation).
(B) IC 31-34, IC 31-37, or IC 31-6-4 before its repeal
(delinquent children and children in need of services).
(C) IC 31-32 or IC 31-6-7 before its repeal (procedure in juvenile court).
(D) IC 34-26-5 or IC 34-26-2 and IC 34-4-5.1 before their repeal (protective order to prevent abuse).
(E) IC 34-26-6 (workplace violence restraining orders).
(3) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued as a condition of pretrial release, including release on bail or personal recognizance, or pretrial diversion if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(4) The person's stalking of another person violates a no contact order issued as a condition of probation if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(5) The person's stalking of another person violates a protective order issued under IC 31-14-16-1 and IC 34-26-5 in a paternity action if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(6) The person's stalking of another person violates an order issued in another state that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(7) The person's stalking of another person violates an order that is substantially similar to an order described in subdivisions (2) through (5) and is issued by an Indian:
(A) tribe;
(B) band;
(C) pueblo;
(D) nation; or
(E) organized group or community, including an Alaska Native village or regional or village corporation as defined in or established under the Alaska Native Claims Settlement Act (43 U.S.C. 1601 et seq.);
that is recognized as eligible for the special programs and services provided by the United States to Indians because of their special status as Indians if the person has been given actual notice of the order.
(8) A criminal complaint of stalking that concerns an act by the person against the same victim or victims is pending in a court and the person has been given actual notice of the complaint.
(c) The offense is a Level 4 felony if:
(1) the act or acts were committed while the person was armed with a deadly weapon; or
(2) the person has an unrelated conviction for an offense under this section against the same victim or victims.

WTFL;DR

 

[Webster-dl]

Whee! It looks like you did get the restraining order, and even though it got squashed, it served its purpose! Also, the police came and took care of the problem! Yay for the good guys!

 

[bradmedic04]

It can be tough to get all the way through absurdly long threads. Wallet.

 

[churchmouse]

​WALLET

 

[bradmedic04]

​WALLET

You should change your currently-offensive/possibly-bannable screenname to Wallet.

 

[churchmouse]

You should change your currently-offensive/possibly-bannable screenname to Wallet.

Nah....Report me....

Can you even imagine the grief that would bring.....Or do you.....