Tactical Reloads: The Whens and Whys

[hog slayer]

This strikes me as silly as saying "Well in 99% of cases, one fire extinguisher is sufficient in household fires, so only one is needed."

If I'm going to carry, I'm carrying two spare mags too. With all of the idiots on my planet, I expect to have to shoot a ton of zombies all at once any day now.

So how many spare fire extinguishers do you carry? What does a carrier look like for those? Is it a dual carrier? Can you CC it?

 

[cedartop]

So how many spare fire extinguishers do you carry? What does a carrier look like for those? Is it a dual carrier? Can you CC it?

Well you can't OC a Fire Extinguisher, you will be the first to get burned, c'mon everyone knows that.

 

[Coach]

So a thread on technique and tactics yet again turns into my way is best and anything that contradicts it is outlandish and wrong.

 

[VERT]

So a thread on technique and tactics yet again turns into my way is best and anything that contradicts it is outlandish and wrong.

I am not sure where anybody said a reloading technique was outlandish or wrong. I for one don't think a tactical reload is incorrect. But I also don't think that most people (not competition, military, etc.) need to spend a lot of time practicing them compared to emergency or speed reloads.

I have spent time with trainers who with carbines advocate the speed reload followed by picking up the magazine if possible like the OP mentioned. Obviously this would not work in a flood. Interesting story though, I am close friends with somebody who was there during Katrina and actually have the magazine that was in his gun at the time somewhere in my garage.

I have heard the story of the "tactical reload" twice from two different guys. Tom Givens has been known to tell it but I have also heard it from where I assume he got the story. The tactical pistol reload was taught at GunSite because in the early days most of the guns were 1911s. After a couple of days of dropping 1911 magazines in the desert the guns simply stopped working. In order to keep the guns up and running so as to not interrupt the courses the instructors had students retain the magazines. I suppose it made sense to some people to retain magazines and in the situations where resupply would be limited who could argue. Then along came IDPA........

 

[rhino]

I have an idea: let's start calling it a "reload with retention" or something similar. Then the name is separate from any application and the user can apply the technique when they choose.

Plus, anything that includes "tactical" in its name usually isn't!

 

[cedartop]

So a thread on technique and tactics yet again turns into my way is best and anything that contradicts it is outlandish and wrong.

Quoting myself from earlier in the thread." People can do what they want though. As long as it is done safely and is somewhat relevant I am just happy to see them train.".

 

[cedartop]

As I see more and more of even the true experts disagree on things, I try and be less dogmatic.

 

[Tactically Fat]

Plus, anything that includes "tactical" in its name usually isn't!

 

[ATM]

...Plus, anything that includes "tactical" in its name usually isn't!

He's only lashing out because deep down inside, he's always been jealous of your tuxedo t-shirt.

 

[HoughMade]

Mag retention isn't important when you're dead.

But may be when you are not dead yet​ and your full mags have been exhausted.

Those couple of rounds left in a mag from a tactical reload...who knows?

 

[Shay]

A couple of thoughts:

1. It is preferred to reload when you can, not when you have to. Hence the need for a "tactical reload". You pick the time and place to swap a mag that is not full for one with more ammo.

2. If it becomes an emergency, then do it really, really quickly as your gun isn't running with the slide back and/or chamber empty.

After watching plenty of people try to juggle two mags in one hand in both live fire and FoF classes, I tell people to only handle one at a time. Old mag out and new mag in. If you want to stash a partially depleted mag, good. More ammo available is generally better. My rule is that empty mags do not ever go back in mag holders. Put them some place else if keeping them is important to you.

As someone mentioned earlier, a tactic (as in tactical reload) is something that gains you an advantage. So if it doesn't gain you an advantage, don't do it.

 

[rhino]

I wrote, "usually." You are UNusual.

As I see more and more of even the true experts disagree on things, I try and be less dogmatic.

I think I'm going to write a book, but I'm going to chisel it in stone tablets. Then if it's not on there, it doesn't exist. And everything that is on there is the way it is for forever.

Heh.

 

[VERT]

Chiseled in stone? Where is your commitment to your ideals? I say write it in blood then we know you are serious.

You think reloads are a controversial topic (I can remember some heated discussion on INGO) try googling shooting stances. Weaver vs isosceles and everything in between. Heck people can't even agree on the exact descriptions of or a name for the in between.

 

[Coach]

If you are talking about reloads in space that is outlandish, and making the point under attach seem outlandish. I will stand by my statement. I was not talking about everyone in this thread. I try to not use the term "never" and "always" which means I strive to not be dogmatic, and especially in the realm of tactics. I think tactics are an area where there may be more than one way to skin the cat.

As far as changing how you reload in a hurry. Good luck with that. I shot one year of IDPA club matches. I never got a penalty for dropping a magazine, but I caught 90% of them in the air after dropping it from the gun because a reload with retention was not my habit. Prior to that time if I was standing in flood water I feel like I would have done the normal speed reload and lost the magazine. Nowadays I think I have a chance of a reload with retention because I have made it something I practice a bit.

 

[szorn]

There is often a great deal of discussion/ training regarding the "HOWS" of Tactical Reloads, but rarely a thorough consideration of the "WHENS" and "WHYS" of tactical reloads. Of course, the whens and whys are often intimately connected when it comes to a gunfight scenario.

I have often heard that tactical reloads should be done when there is some sort of "lull" in the gunfight. To be honest, I find this thinking questionable, unless one can tell me exactly when the other side will begin to re-engage and once again attempt to shoot me before I shoot them. There are no "time outs" allowed.

From my perspective, the one necessity of tactical reloads is cover/ concealment, as one never wants to be out in the open with their jimmy swinging in the wind with a gun that is being "tactically" reloaded. There is nothing "tactical" about that at all, and if one is going to be performing a "tactical reload," one must not forget the "tactical" part of the maneuver.

As to the whens/ whys, I believe there are only two times a tactical reload is indeed necessary/ advisable. First, before I move myself from one place of cover to a more advantageous place of cover, I want to make sure I have a fully loaded weapon so I can, if necessary, put rounds toward the bad man in order to keep their heads down (especially if I have no one else to offer me covering fire while I am moving place to place). And second, if a colleague is needing to move from cover to cover, I want to top off my weapon before giving them the go-ahead to move (see "jimmy swinging in the wind" above).

I hope this gives some clarification, at least from my perspective, as to the possible rationally justifiable uses for a tactical reload. Feel free to share your thoughts.

And one more thing: As to the "HOW" of the maneuver, I find it much nicer to have the magazine just drop to the floor and get the gun reloaded as quickly as possible rather than trying to retain one and hold two mags in one hand while trying to insert the fresh mag. It takes longer and the longer I have an unloaded weapon, the more danger I am in. Once my gun is back to full capacity, I can just pick up the magazine I dropped with the couple of rounds in it and then put it in my pocket/ pouch. And I can do this knowing I have a fully loaded weapon in my hand.

Vanguard.45

Statistically-speaking majority of gunfights / lethal force encounters end without ever providing the time or the opportunity to reload, let alone the opportunity to execute a "tactical" reload. I personally feel that civilians should focus on combat reloads while leaving tactical reloads to those that have back-up / cover fire (law enforcement and military).

Steve