Tenant rental rights... HELP!!!

[wsenefeld]

Moved into a new house in Boone County Indiana and are currently experiencing electrical problems. 3 rooms and one living room wall are on the same breaker which always gets tripped. Half the outlets in the house are faulty and only get 36 volts. I'm guessing there is a short somewhere which could possibly start a fire.

I've tried getting a hold of the landlord and he always seems to be aggravated that we are even trying to get a hold of him. He has kept blowing us off and we would like to do something about it. In Indiana, can the landlord kick you out for no reason at all? We are doing nothing illegal and have paid our rent on time. I would like to believe that since we do have a signed lease, that he cannot kick us out because we are abiding the lease.

EDIT: We do wish to stay where we are currently at. For renting, I dont think I will find anything much better. Both the wife and I work here in Lebanon so she has a 6 minute drive to work and mine takes 8. We have a 3bdrm, 2 bath, large 2 car garage, nearly 2200 sq ft and over an acre back yard, all for $750/month. I would like to have the issue fixed but not risk getting kicked out. I am looking up tennant rights but it seems that if the landlord wakes up one day and wants you out, he has the right to do so. Please tell me I'm wrong. Seems that I'm in a lose-lose situation.

 

[Scutter01]

If the place isn't suitable for habitation, why would you want to stay? Also, I should think that would be sufficient reason to break your lease.

 

[UNCLE HARLEY]

I'd be buying (3) smoke detectors for every room, just in case.

 

[Jake46184]

Have you considered reviewing the rental agreement you signed? Your remedies, if any, should have been known to you, and approved by you, BEFORE you signed. Also, a bit of common-sense might have been in order BEFORE you signed. Did it ever occur to you that you were getting too much house for $750/month? Why might a landlord offer such a low price? These aren't difficult. Now is not the time to wonder what you should do. The time for your due diligence was BEFORE you signed.

Go back through what I've offered and look for the words in all CAPS. Learn from them.

 

[Bang-bang]

Any house that is a rental unit must be safe! You can break the lease for that reason. Just be able to prove the house was un safe in court if they try to sue you.

"The time for your due diligence was BEFORE you signed. " No, it must be a safe house/rental unit, and pass code/law.

 

[Skywired]

Unfortunately for you... it's a case of "be careful what you wish for." If the landlord decides the place is not habitable....there you go. Not to say that you won't eventually wind up with some reimbursed damages, etc. But you will have to leave.

Want to complain to the fire department, or health department, or code enforcement department? Well, worst case scenario, you run the risk of having them declare the place uninhabitable, and boot you to the curb.

As the previous poster asked... do you really want to live in sub-standard conditions, dealing with a slum lord? Only you can make that decision.

 

[Brandon]

Have you looked inside the electrical box?
Are there any outlets that have burn marks?

Im wondering if someone was messing with the electrical before you moved in and may have a "simple" fix...

 

[hornadylnl]

If you're only getting 36 volts, I'm guessing you have a loose neutral somewhere.

 

[Caleb]

Sounds like the house is just waiting to go up in smokes....beware!

 

[Dirtebiker]

Make all your contacts with the landlord in writing! ( it probably says that in your lease)
ask him to have an electrician check the house out. If he refuses or doesn't respond, then I guess you have a couple choices.... Hire someone to do an inspection and written report, break your lease, and move out, or maybe hire someone to fix the problem, pay for it yourself, and submit he bill to your landlord, or just eat the expense!
It does sound like you are getting a very good deal on rent, but that is no excuse for faulty electrical. The landlord is responsible to have everything in working order when you move in, you are responsible to keep it that way.
I am a landlord and a remodeling contractor, let me know if you have any questions or if you'd like for me to come take a look at it for you.

 

[ralphb72]

36 Volts is very low. If you do have a loose neutral, you would also see the other hot leg (probably the other half of the house) go up in voltage while that one goes down.

I don't know how your power company does it (or who it is), but I would call and tell them you have "Partial Power". If you called and told me that, we would have someone there within the hour. They can (or should) check connections and voltage inside your meter base, your your weather head (connections above the meter base), and the connections out at the pole. Ask that they do that while you have load turned on. If they don't find anything, ask that they set some equipment to monitor the voltage and current at the meterbase for a week or so.

Ask if they can pull your meter for a few minutes and help you to check your main breaker or outside disconnect breaker, either one could be going back if you have them.

If they can't or won't do that, you may have to have an electrician over to check the main, and the load side of the disconnects etc.

 

[edporch]

As somebody who is a landlord, I would want to know WHY the breaker kept tripping and why there was only 36 volts.
Sounds like a disaster waiting to happen.
If your landlord doesn't care, they sound like they aren't too "mentally efficient".

 

[88GT]

Any house that is a rental unit must be safe! You can break the lease for that reason. Just be able to prove the house was un safe in court if they try to sue you.

There is no legal cause for breaking a lease. There are certain circumstances which allow for a tenant to terminate a lease agreement properly provided the proper conditions are met AND provided the tenant does so in the proper manner (most of those actually deal with tenants who are victims of certain crimes). But a legal termination is NOT breaking it. A landlord that does not fix a repair, no matter how unsafe the conditions is not grounds for breaking the lease. Legally. Personal choice and discretion are a different story. It just needs to be iterated that unlawful actions have consequences and those consequences need to be considered as part of the decision-making process.

In this case, proving the house wasn't safe won't be enough to protect him from losing the judgment.

"The time for your due diligence was BEFORE you signed. " No, it must be a safe house/rental unit, and pass code/law.

Actually, it's a little bit of both. My lease has specific verbiage that states the tenant has examined and inspected the property and finds it clean, safe, habitable, and compliant with all local and state health/safety regulations. The tenant would then be required to show that either (a) the defect was not discoverable by a reasonable inspection or (b) the defect presented itself AFTER the lease was signed.

OP, your best bet is to put the request in writing to your landlord (his lease should have a specific address used for official business relating to the lease). You must provide ample time for remedy though. Writing the letter on Day 1 and breaking the lease on Day 3 won't cut it. Besides, you can't break the lease legally anyway. If he refuses to make the repair, you must inform him of your knowledge of his refusal and inform him of your intent to pay for the repair out of pocket. Now, you have no legal grounds for doing so up front, but you can try to deduct the out-of-pocket cost from the next month's rent and hope he doesn't take action. Keep in mind you are still liable for the rent obligation in full. If he sues for the rent, your defense is that you had to pay out of pocket and at this point you could file a counter suit for the amount paid out of pocket. Most landlords will chalk it up as a wash because it costs money to file the claim and most know that on this they are very like to lose their claim AND the counter claim. The strictly legal method is to pay all rent obligations in full and on time, and then sue him for the out of pocket expense as a separate transaction. But I've never seen anybody do that.

Here's the IC for tenant's cause of action to enforce landlord obligations.

IC 32-31-8-6
Tenant's cause of action to enforce landlord obligations
Sec. 6. (a) A tenant may bring an action in a court with jurisdiction to enforce an obligation of a landlord under this chapter.
(b) A tenant may not bring an action under this chapter unless the following conditions are met:
(1) The tenant gives the landlord notice of the landlord's noncompliance with a provision of this chapter.
(2) The landlord has been given a reasonable amount of time to make repairs or provide a remedy of the condition described in the tenant's notice. The tenant may not prevent the landlord from having access to the rental premises to make repairs or provide a remedy to the condition described in the tenant's notice.
(3) The landlord fails or refuses to repair or remedy the condition described in the tenant's notice.
(c) This section may not be construed to limit a tenant's rights under IC 32-31-3, IC 32-31-5, or IC 32-31-6.
(d) If the tenant is the prevailing party in an action under this section, the tenant may obtain any of the following, if appropriate under the circumstances:
(1) Recovery of the following:
(A) Actual damages and consequential damages.
(B) Attorney's fees and court costs.
(2) Injunctive relief.
(3) Any other remedy appropriate under the circumstances.
(e) A landlord's liability for damages under subsection (d) begins when:
(1) the landlord has notice or actual knowledge of noncompliance; and
(2) the landlord has:
(A) refused to remedy the noncompliance; or
(B) failed to remedy the noncompliance within a reasonable amount of time following the notice or actual knowledge;
whichever occurs first.

OP, this is the IC relevant to your situation, by the way.

IC 32-31-8-5
Landlord obligations
Sec. 5. A landlord shall do the following:
(1) Deliver the rental premises to a tenant in compliance with the rental agreement, and in a safe, clean, and habitable condition.
(2) Comply with all health and housing codes applicable to the rental premises.
(3) Make all reasonable efforts to keep common areas of a rental premises in a clean and proper condition.
(4) Provide and maintain the following items in a rental premises in good and safe working condition, if provided on the premises at the time the rental agreement is entered into:
(A) Electrical systems.
(B) Plumbing systems sufficient to accommodate a reasonable supply of hot and cold running water at all times.
(C) Sanitary systems.

(D) Heating, ventilating, and air conditioning systems. A heating system must be sufficient to adequately supply heat at all times.
(E) Elevators, if provided.
(F) Appliances supplied as an inducement to the rental agreement.

Disclaimer: IAALLBNYLL and none of this is to be construed as legal advice.

 

[VaGriller]

My lease has specific verbiage that states the tenant has examined and inspected the property and finds it clean, safe, habitable, and compliant with all local and state health/safety regulations. The tenant would then be required to show that either (a) the defect was not discoverable by a reasonable inspection or (b) the defect presented itself AFTER the lease was signed.

Who's to say what a reasonable inspection is? Are you implying that you wouldn't fix something that was broke or damaged before the lease was signed, unless your tenant pointed it during the inspection period?

 

[88GT]

Who's to say what a reasonable inspection is?

You've never heard of the reasonable man standard? Doesn't matter ultimately. The tenant signed off on clean, safe, and habitable. Whether it was a cursory glance or a function test of every fixture, switch, and plug, he still signed off on it.

Are you implying that you wouldn't fix something that was broke or damaged before the lease was signed, unless your tenant pointed it during the inspection period?

That was never an issue of this discussion. Where do you people come up with these questions?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I know it may cost a buck or two and with 88GT's experienced advice, I'd get a real, licensed, insured, bonafied, reputable electrican and have this investigated. Make any repairs required (with the agreement of the landlord) and settle the expenses (again, with the landlord).

Don't get "uncle Joe" with the volt meter to come give it the free once over. This is important. And I strongly urge you to do it correctly so that you CYA.

If the landlord refuses to pay for the repairs and your "uncle Joe" with the volt meter does it, and the place catches on fire anyway...guess who'll be blamed. Again, if the landlord refuses to pay for repairs, you have a choice to make...keep living there and possibly damage your property or even worse, get your family injured or killed OR follow 88GT's guidance and see about getting out of there.

A $750/month rent deal won't off set a dead family member.

 

[VaGriller]

You've never heard of the reasonable man standard? Doesn't matter ultimately. The tenant signed off on clean, safe, and habitable. Whether it was a cursory glance or a function test of every fixture, switch, and plug, he still signed off on it.





That was never an issue of this discussion. Where do you people come up with these questions?

Sorry no, I don't know what entails a reasonable inspection. Would 36 volts out of a wall socket be considered a reasonable inspection?

Arent you still responsible as a landlord to fix issues with the house in the end though?

Or is your stance "well you signed off so its your problem"?

I'm not being an a$$, I was asking an honest question.

I can say this, we've lived all over the country the last 8 years, and preparing to move out of state again so we've rented quite a few houses in our time because we rent then buy if we stay long enough. We try to rent newer houses and luckily any issues with any of the houses that has come up, our landlords have taken care of it promptly.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Sorry no, I don't know what entails a reasonable inspection. Would 36 volts out of a wall socket be considered a reasonable inspection?

Arent you still responsible as a landlord to fix issues with the house in the end though?

Or is your stance "well you signed off so its your problem"?

I'm not being an a$$, I was asking an honest question.

I can say this, we've lived all over the country the last 8 years, and preparing to move out of state again so we've rented quite a few houses in our time because we rent then buy if we stay long enough. We try to rent newer houses and luckily any issues with any of the houses that has come up, our landlords have taken care of it promptly.

I don't know what the law is, but using my version of common sense: Your level of due diligence for renting a home is not the same as that for a person buying it. By signing a lease, unless certain issues are disclosed, you agree to rent a place knowing, for example, it's on a busy street, the yard is on a very steep hill that you'll be responsible for mowing, etc.

Other examples might include: If for some reason, you determined during your inspection prior to moving in, that there was only a 60amp service in the house, that should have put you on notice that enjoyment of your electrical luxuries may be significantly impaired. Or if the landlord told you the back yard floods during a heavy rain -- you cannot then complain later when it does.

My sense is, it would be reasonable to assume certain utilities were up to standards. In your example, most reasonable people would assume the voltage should be a nominal 110v. The problem experienced here indicates an abnormal condition that should have either been disclosed by the landlord (if s/he knew about it) or a condition that was undiscovered.

You should mitigate your damages too. Don't use that 36v circuit. If possible, I'd flip that breaker off until the problem is fixed. Don't plug anything into it and expect to be reimbursed if it should get damaged--You already are on notice that it is faulty.

IANAL and this advice is worth what you paid for it

 

[serf]

I had to call the department of health on the first apartment I ever rented. The crooks shut my water off because of a leak in the washer hookup (with no washer attached). They shut off the water, threatened to charge me for "restoration" and refused to turn my water back on. A phone call to the health department had an inspector out within 2 days. They told them to turn the water back on or the unit would be deemed uninhabitable. They would also owe me back rent for the 2 weeks my water was shut off. As this was "unreasonable." The whole fiasco ended up being due to a seal failing and not my fault at all.

As a renter you may have more rights than you think. Call the city and ask for help if there is anyone competent enough. GET EVERYTHING IN WRITING. If he still won't fix it, call somebody and try to get it knocked off your rent. Sometimes I wish I still rented, but I dont miss the sleazy managers.

 

[wsenefeld]

Got a reputable building inspector here in Boone Co to come out and do a thorough inspection (he frequently visits my moms restaurant here in town and did the inspection for FREEEEE). The breaker box is not adequate for the size of the house. They have done several ad-ons and kept adding to the original breaker box. The 36volts is due to the OLD ballasts used to light the garage. The cords for those lights look like somebody used an entire roll of electrical tape to wrap them and they were still very warm to the touch. Don't know how that caused outlets on the other side of the house to short but once the garage lights were disconnectes, got 112volts from the outlet.

He sent a written letter to the landlord and gave him a phone call. About an hour later we got a call from Boone electric saying they'd be out here first thing Monday morning to fix anything I'd like.

Somehow I remember this thread being a bit longer... Hmph