Tesla Introduces Their New Whole House Batteries

[rhino]

Tesla's batteries are good for electric vehicles, the power to weight ratio is much better than lead acid. It does also have a few advantages such as improved cycle life, lower maintenance, and lower internal resistance. It's just not the great leap I was hoping they would be making. Had it come out in the $100/kWh range I would be all over it. The TCO just doesn't seem to be an improvement.

I'm not a True Believer, just a guy with almost 30 years experience in home power generation and storage, and I think electric cars are pretty neat.

They're still in the novelty category in my opinion. Interesting? Yes. Potential for "some day"? Yes. Ready for prime time in terms of reasonable range on a charge (with A/C or heat and other accessories operating) AND not catching on fire? No.

 

[CathyInBlue]

There will always be four elements to the electric power equation:

Power Generation
Power Consumption
Power Transportation
Power Storage

This product is only playing in the fourth part of the equation. If you're not using more efficient appliances, lights, motors, heaters, etc., or just using less electric power then you're not doing anything in the consumption part of the equation. If you're still charging the Tesla unit directly off the grid, you're doing absolutely nothing in the generation or transportation parts of the equation, so it's completely disingenuous to talk about how the Tesla units "generate" their power. They don't generate power. They convert electric power to a form that can be stored, generally with batteries, this is covered by the science of electro-chemistry, and then reconverting it from that stored form back to electric power when needed. This will always entail the so-called "double conversion loss", so a Tesla unit directly on the grid is really only useful as a form of whole-house UPS, guaranteeing continued power when the grid is unreliable.

This only gets useful when it is used as a buffer between otherwise grid-dependent appliances and devices and any of various renewable energy power generation technologies: PV, wind, micro-hydro, petrochemical power generators (gas, diesel, nat gas, etc.), hydrogen fuel cells, geothermal (incl. steam power), LFTRs, etc. Such distributed, on-site power generation directly attacks problems of power transportation, since power generated at the point of use categoricly does not have to be transported over long distances. The problems with these forms of power generation is that they are hardly ever matched kW for kW in sync with the power consumption, thus requiring a storage intermediary. As long as I can hand-carve some blades, bolt them to a hub, run the output from the hub through a length of shaft and a couple of right angle drives into a hand-wound generator head wired through a large rectifier and into a battery charger that can pump the liberated electrons into a battery bank of some kind, I'll be satisfied with such a home battery storage system. If Tesla's system will only ever tack power off the grid, it'll never take off, no matter the $/kWh for storage it is able to offer.

 

[Leadeye]

You're trying to use math to defeat hype. IT"S A TESLA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[CathyInBlue]

Nikola had nothing to do with it.

 

[Leadeye]

Nikola had nothing to do with it.

Very true, and although he was somewhat of a showman, out of respect his name needs to be attached to something better.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

They're still in the novelty category in my opinion. Interesting? Yes. Potential for "some day"? Yes. Ready for prime time in terms of reasonable range on a charge (with A/C or heat and other accessories operating) AND not catching on fire? No.

Yep...It's still hard to beat the amount of electricity stored in a ton of coal or a MCF of gas...even with the inefficiencies inherent in current power system.

 

[rosefarm10]

First and probably considerable sales will be in third world countries that have no power. More than 1 billion people in the world still live without it....considerable number. Projected battery cost 24 months from now is down 40% from today. That number will be an attractive payback if you live in the country (me) and are paying 12 cents per kilowatt/hr.

 

[Cameramonkey]

I'm waiting for the True Believers in electric cars and similar uses of batteries to swoop in here and spank us.

You mean the ones who are too stupid to realize they are switching out burning gasoline for energy for even dirtier coal? (assuming plug in varieties of cars)

Amazing how if you asked them to swap out their gas engine for a coal furnace powered car they would freak about how dirty it would be, yet you throw in the "sexy" of a power grid thats coal fired and they have no problem with it. (or are just too damned clueless to understand)

 

[snowdrifter]

I'm seeing an application with innovative new home heating solution.

Now for your whole house!

 

[ghuns]

Elon Musk, in name, appearance and personality reminds me of a Bond villain.

There's a Tesla S parked at business just down the street from my work. Beautiful car. And it hasn't burned to the ground yet.

 

[firefighterjohn]

They're still in the novelty category in my opinion. Interesting? Yes. Potential for "some day"? Yes. Ready for prime time in terms of reasonable range on a charge (with A/C or heat and other accessories operating) AND not catching on fire? No.

Expensive novelty to boot! How many cycles will batteries last? How much will solar panels cost to feed them? What type of long term maintenance costs are involved? I already have too much to maintain in a traditional home setting...why add more at an increased cost? Some rich and famous will be the first to trot out these NEW systems but its now where near prime time yet.

 

[ghuns]

Expensive novelty to boot! How many cycles will [STRIKE]batteries[/STRIKE] engine last? How much will [STRIKE]solar panels[/STRIKE] fuel cost to feed them? What type of long term maintenance costs are involved? I already have too much to maintain in a traditional home setting...why add more at an increased cost? Some rich and famous will be the first to trot out these NEW systems but its now where near prime time yet.

Yeah, that darned horseless carriage will never take off.

 

[rhino]

Yeah, that darned horseless carriage will never take off.

The difference is, no one tried to coerce you into buying the car with the IC engine that before it worked and fuel was available, killed and ate your horse, and made oats too expensive to buy if you could find a living horse later.

 

[miguel]

To hell with Tesla batteries, I prefer Tesla Girls!

Unfortunately I can't find the original video, so the song and album cover will have to do.

[video=youtube;zdzNcVQqTnw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zdzNcVQqTnw&spfreload=10[/video]

 

[ghuns]

The difference is, no one tried to coerce you into buying the car with the IC engine that before it worked and fuel was available, killed and ate your horse, and made oats too expensive to buy if you could find a living horse later.

Nobody has forced me to turn in my 86 Chevy truck for a Prius. Nobody will make you buy a Tesla Powerwall and install a solar array on your roof.

I don't support the .gov making it easier for Mr. Musk to sell you products, but even if I did, how exactly are you being coerced?

 

[firefighterjohn]

Yeah, that darned horseless carriage will never take off.

Well is Tesla could survive; turn a profit, without government subsidies maybe your comparisons would make sense.

 

[JTScribe]

The hope is that maybe it will become like any consumer electronic . . . price is high to begin with, then lowers as processes are improved and more units are sold.

I have read though that the DC output is very high on these, over 500 VDC, so you can't use a standard inverter, either. That's kind of a bummer.

 

[ghuns]

Well is Tesla could survive; turn a profit, without government subsidies maybe your comparisons would make sense.

My comparison makes perfect sense. It's about the technology, not the business model.

I don't like .gov subsidies. Yes, they are bad. But they are the reality of the world we live in. In our version of socialism lite, it's hard to push an innovative technology without .gov assistance. We a had a start up electric car maker build a shiny new building in a small town near me. He got some investor money for the building and the prototype, but the big money was held back by his investors until he landed some of the sweet .gov $$$. That .gov $$$ never came. Guess Elon Musk got it all.

In that way, subsidies actually hold back innovation. Maybe that guy's car sucked. Maybe it would have changed the world. We'll never know.

I have read though that the DC output is very high on these, over 500 VDC, so you can't use a standard inverter, either. That's kind of a bummer.

And it doesn't come with the inverter.

 

[Clarity]

I read that the supposed cost savings of the power wall is that you charge it at night when electricity is cheaper. That being said, I also read an analysis that, all in, solar powered power wall electricity is still triple the cost of nat gas electricity, best case. You have to buy a $4,000 charge controller/inverter and the solar panels (maybe from Elon Musk's SolarCity, on the installment plan), and then you have the conversion losses. All in all, conclusion is that this is a rich green person's toy (unless you put value on resilience and disaster preparedness?) I think this is, in part, an integration strategy for the SolarCity solar model. It is also part of a larger, long term strategy of making the grid "smart", i.e. utilities can borrow from your electric car or power wall as needed to stabilize the grid during peak demand.

 

[mrjarrell]

Apparently, some folks know what they want. Tesla has sold out of the Power Wall through the first half of next year. Sales have been through the roof.

Tesla announces 38,000 pre-orders for Powerwall home battery | The Verge