The 2014 session and Short Barrel Shotguns

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  • xryan.jacksonx

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    Jun 3, 2012
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    Sorry for such a long post, but it is all important information...

    As most of us are painfully aware, Indiana prohibits the possession of short barrel shotguns. Even a hardcore gun control zealot would have trouble defending this statue for the following reasons:
    1. Manufacturing a SBS is a 30 second process for someone looking to commit a crime with one
    2. SBS require more extensive background checks than a standard shotgun
    3. SBS can't generally be lent or simply sold due to NFA regulation

    As such, I believe that with a concerted effort and a plan we would have a good chance of convincing the state legislature to repeal the prohibition. The success with the suppressor hunting bill this year is even more encouraging.

    My suggested course of action is to start a petition to repeal the prohibition with a statement summing the points listed above. The petition would obviously be open for anyone to sign, but I think a concentration on law enforcement would be a great assistance to our cause. I know that this board has a strong law enforcement presence and many of us have law enforcement members as friends and family. We will have a much stronger case when approaching a legislator to author the bill if we can show the signatures of individuals involved in law enforcement duties. I'd be willing to put some of my money where my mouth is and rent a table at the 1500 to gather signatures and raise awareness. It would be important to start this process as soon as possible so that come January we have a strong showing from the git go.

    Come January, we could reach out to one or more representatives and request a meeting to present our petition. Elevating the project to a high level of awareness on INGO will enable us to flood the representatives with letters and phone calls at important times. Hand written letters tend to get the most attention.

    Having individuals show up to support the bill while it is in committee may also be beneficial, depending on the make up of the committee.

    If we do gain some momentum with the project, we could ask for support from the NRA and GOA on the bill.

    I spent the 2011 legislative session as an information technology intern for the Republicans in the Indiana House or Representatives. I'm intimately familiar with the committee process and how the legislators think as I often found myself in their offices fixing computer issues during their interactions with other House members. I still maintain contact with several staff members that work in the State House who know the members well and could give us assistance in setting up a meeting with Hose Members most sympathetic to our position.

    In 2011 I recall a bill passing through the House regarding the shipment of long guns. I don't recall the details, but it brought Indiana in line with the more gun friendly federal regulation. There was no debate on the bill and it passed almost unanimously with the only no votes coming from a few democrats from heavily urban areas (Gary, Indianpolis, etc). If the bill is presented in a similar fashion to the House, it should sail through third reading.

    I obviously can't do this alone and would like to organize a state wide effort from every corner of the state. Collecting signatures is something everyone could help with even if you can't commit a huge amount of time. If you think this is worthwhile, post in here and we will get something going.
     
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    JoshuaW

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    If you organize, I will sign. I always write letters. I don't think a petition is needed though, I think SBSs are already on radar and will be brought up next session. They probably would have been brought up this session, but it was really bad timing. We snuck hunting with suppressors in without much media attention, but sawed off shotguns would have made headlines. I know there are members of the legislature thinking about these things, and I think our continuing letters and support will get us there.

    In summery, I don't think a petition is needed, but I would gladly sign one.
     

    xryan.jacksonx

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    If you organize, I will sign. I always write letters. I don't think a petition is needed though, I think SBSs are already on radar and will be brought up next session. They probably would have been brought up this session, but it was really bad timing. We snuck hunting with suppressors in without much media attention, but sawed off shotguns would have made headlines. I know there are members of the legislature thinking about these things, and I think our continuing letters and support will get us there.

    In summery, I don't think a petition is needed, but I would gladly sign one.

    I'm sue senator Steele is aware of the situation, but my interaction with House members, even pro gun ones, would suggest that they aren't aware of something of this obscurity. I know it has been brought up before in the legsilature, but a concentrated effort on our part could almost guarantee success.

    As far as the media goes, if the bill is titled "Bad Ass Sawed Off Shotgun Legalization Act" we will have a problem. However, if it is someting more pc like "Short Barell Shotgun Federal Regulation Act" and a well spoken member outlines the points made above, we shouldn't have a problem.

    Again, I' not asking for anyone to give tons of time, but if you would be willing to collect a sheet or two of signatures, it would go a long way.
     

    Titanium_Frost

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    IMO it is a BAD idea to use gun control as a reasoning for allowing the peasants to own SBSs. It makes it look like the gun community agrees it is an effective measure for reducing crime.

    Specifically the transfer limitations and additional background checks which do nothing to actually prevent weapons from being used in crimes.
     

    xryan.jacksonx

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    IMO it is a BAD idea to use gun control as a reasoning for allowing the peasants to own SBSs. It makes it look like the gun community agrees it is an effective measure for reducing crime.

    Specifically the transfer limitations and additional background checks which do nothing to actually prevent weapons from being used in crimes.

    I can see where you are coming from, and from a philosophical perspective I 100% agree. The fact is that there are many members in the House who might be hostile to the idea. Presenting te bill as benign a way as possible will help ease passage.

    To specifically address your point about transfers and background checks, I agree that those things won't stop someone from using a SBS in a crime that try illegally manufacture (see point 1). Registered NFA firearms will require a larger investment of time and money and will be more secure, thus less likely to end up in some random persons hands as it is much easier to simply manufacture an illegal one. Tencocern amount moderates is that these guns will end up going to criminals. Taken together the three points make the case that the criminals will continue to gain access no matter what and it is almost guaranteed that the newly legal firearms will not end up in their hands as they can break the law in an easier fashion.

    I'm definatley open to suggestions though and if the consensus is that there are better ways to make our point then I'm fine with that.
     

    BogWalker

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    IMO it is a BAD idea to use gun control as a reasoning for allowing the peasants to own SBSs. It makes it look like the gun community agrees it is an effective measure for reducing crime.

    Specifically the transfer limitations and additional background checks which do nothing to actually prevent weapons from being used in crimes.
    We've gotta use the same double speak the liberals use if we want to get the moderates and fence sitters on our side. A dirty tactic, but nobody said it was a fair fight.

    I'd sign, write, call, whatever you needed me to do to get this passed. I can't believe in a state as 2A friendly as Indiana that this hasn't been brought up before.
     

    xryan.jacksonx

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    We've gotta use the same double speak the liberals use if we want to get the moderates and fence sitters on our side. A dirty tactic, but nobody said it was a fair fight.

    I'd sign, write, call, whatever you needed me to do to get this passed. I can't believe in a state as 2A friendly as Indiana that this hasn't been brought up before.

    I agree with you, but some tact is needed in politics. I think what Titanium_Frost was gettin at was that we don't want to say something today that will cost is in the future, and i agree. I think an appropriate strategy might be to make point one our focus, but use points two and three to rebuke anyone who suggest that these newly legal firearms will increase crime.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    We have been interested for some time and can tell you we will be back next session. It is a matter of timing.

    Kirk Freeman
    Director at Large
    Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association
     

    xryan.jacksonx

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    We have been interested for some time and can tell you we will be back next session. It is a matter of timing.

    Kirk Freeman
    Director at Large
    Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association


    Thanks for the info. Do you feel that there would be some value in a petition? I'm not talking a few hundred signatures. If we do this, doing it right with several thousand signatures will be the way to go.

    What about an organized call and write in?

    Many representatives request a "Top 5" from staff members of the issue that people contact their office about in a week, so forming a concentrated effort or having a group to show in support of a bill in conference will help.
     

    Kirk Freeman

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    We encourage our member to write and call in support of legislation that we believe advances the right to keep and bear arms.

    Nothing wrong with a petition drive. Nothing wrong with contacting our State representatives and senators in advance of the legislative session and letting them know what we want now before there even is a bill.

    Kirk Freeman
    Director at Large
    Indiana State Rifle and Pistol Association
     

    JoshuaW

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    I'm sue senator Steele is aware of the situation, but my interaction with House members, even pro gun ones, would suggest that they aren't aware of something of this obscurity. I know it has been brought up before in the legsilature, but a concentrated effort on our part could almost guarantee success.

    As far as the media goes, if the bill is titled "Bad Ass Sawed Off Shotgun Legalization Act" we will have a problem. However, if it is someting more pc like "Short Barell Shotgun Federal Regulation Act" and a well spoken member outlines the points made above, we shouldn't have a problem.

    Again, I' not asking for anyone to give tons of time, but if you would be willing to collect a sheet or two of signatures, it would go a long way.

    I would rather not see the words "Federal" in the title of any state legislation, it leaves a bad taste in my mouth :D
     

    M4Madness

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    I can't believe in a state as 2A friendly as Indiana that this hasn't been brought up before.

    The last time a bill was introduced to legalize SBS's was two years ago, but it failed to go anywhere. The same thing can be said for automatic knives and hunting with suppressors, but we finally got them passed this year. The key is to keep introducing these bills year after year until they pass. Petitions aren't necessary, but certainly cannot hurt. I spoke with Senator Steele about SBS's a few years ago, and he was receptive to the notion.
     

    JoshuaW

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    M4Madness makes a good point, even if we don't pass something this year, just bringing it up will educate some people, and make it that much easier in the future.
     
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