The Open Carry Argument

[SirRealism]

Yeah, it's tough to take someone seriously who complains about a lack of training in one post, then builds his next post on three complete fallacies (that Indiana has a concealed carry permit, that most states require OCers carry unloaded, and that most OCers do indeed carry unloaded).

As someone else said above, even if I disagreed with your stance on OC, I was willing to listen to your opinion up until that last post, where you lost all credibility. For a moment, I thought I was on the IndyStar's comments section.

 

[wiseinvestor]

Thanks for posting this article!

 

[CPT Nervous]

Thanks for posting this article!

Reported.

 

[jeremy]

Reported.

Wrong post to report....

 

[Double T]

This really had nothing to do with the law or your rights, it had a far deeper meaning that what lay on top of the issue. But since you insist...

You do not have the right to carry however you see fit UNLESS you are licensed (found to be free from mental defect, not using drugs, no criminal background etc) and then it is considered a "privilege" not a right. I can carry any type of firearm on my property, or with consent of the property owner without a permit. First fail.(concealed carry is very typically how many see fit to carry a loaded firearm). If you are only referring to "OC" then read on..
You are further banned from a number of places regardless of your legal ability to carry a loaded gun. And that is a victim rich environment. Their loss is their own problem, not mine. Fail 2

Indiana's concealed permit is rather a joke, You are right, the Indiana is a JOKE. It's a license to carry, and IC is silent. So perhaps the joke is on you. you need not attend any classes, be informed of the laws to shooting a person, or worse yet, show you can even use the thing. Just get some fingerprints, pay some fees and away you go. That just gives me a warm fuzzy feeling all over..Maybe that's just...well...nevermind

With that in mind, if you were denied a permit to carry concealed, odds are good you are not legally allowed to own a gun in the first place. Incorrect. Loads of people can own firearms, but not carry.

Finally, to add insult to injury I am pretty sure most states require that the OC firearm be unloaded? (sort of like showing up to a gunfight without a knife even?) Perhaps you forgot this is INDIANA gun owners. Not Cali. Not Illinois. Not New York. Reference FAIL. Indiana is not most states, it is it's own little semi sovereign land independent of gun grabbers trying to take them away. Fail #...I stopped counting.

I happen to spend a lot of time around LEO's and the very very few (2 I know of) that have had to use a firearm never had time to load the thing. They were lucky to get it un-holstered and fired under extreme duress. Situational awareness or complacency FAIL. Not the LCTH or 2A's fault. Sounds like they were complacent but I digress

Odds on that if you are under that stress, you are not going to be much better than they are. But I hope you do because it could mean your life..
considering the LEO take a VERY easy test, I will take my chances on the average guy over an LEO most times.
Given various targets a nutcase might be going for, I think the guy trying to load his gun might be high on the list.. what the hell are you talking about? Most people who carry, carry loaded...whether OC or CC. There's no point in carrying an empty chamber. Unless you are skeered you can't keep your finger off the booger hook

So much Fail.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

Now I really understand the term "Down in flames".

Your house, your rules Fred but wow, that was the fail post of the year!

 

[Firearm Fred]

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."

Justice Scalia

With that, it becomes a privilege to carry.. (a very sad erosion of your rights). With the outright banning of automatic weapons, the SNS and a handful of other weapons, our precious 2nd amendment got gutted. These laws all aimed at non law abiding persons. (with little or no effect on them but plenty on the rest of us)

While not an expert on the laws, they are in fact vague and in many states, you can only OC under specific conditions and many do not allow you to have a loaded firearm in this condition..

Indiana lags 15 years behind CA in many laws.. Non permissive OC is one of them.. But rest assured, it is coming here. Pretending we are on an island is both silly and just makes you feel better to yourself.. When talking gun laws, you really should think at the national level, not locally..

Next is just an opin..
While there is little need for OC today (the wild west saw the first bans of OC) the right is gone in many places..

Many do not see it but the entire OC issue provides a very luscious smoke screen for what is really going on..

Call it what you like (it is all symantics) The govt is disarming the populace.. OC just provides an avenue to make gun owners look like rednecks to many that have no idea what a gun is good for..

 

[Titanium_Frost]

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."

Justice Scalia

With that, it becomes a privilege to carry.. (a very sad erosion of your rights). With the outright banning of automatic weapons, the SNS and a handful of other weapons, our precious 2nd amendment got gutted. These laws all aimed at non law abiding persons. (with little or no effect on them but plenty on the rest of us)

While not an expert on the laws, they are in fact vague and in many states, you can only OC under specific conditions and many do not allow you to have a loaded firearm in this condition..

Indiana lags 15 years behind CA in many laws.. Non permissive OC is one of them.. But rest assured, it is coming here. Pretending we are on an island is both silly and just makes you feel better to yourself.. When talking gun laws, you really should think at the national level, not locally..

Next is just an opin..
While there is little need for OC today (the wild west saw the first bans of OC) the right is gone in many places..

Many do not see it but the entire OC issue provides a very luscious smoke screen for what is really going on..

Call it what you like (it is all symantics) The govt is disarming the populace.. OC just provides an avenue to make gun owners look like rednecks to many that have no idea what a gun is good for..

Keep talking. You prove more and more how little you know. Sad you are not only a doctor (supposedly) but an FFL (also supposedly).

I'm convinced gun owners such as yourself are the absolute greatest threat to our rights that exist today. The crazy gun grabbers can be ignored but the "moderates" sound so convincing to the masses.

You probably read too many Guns & Ammo and think they apply to the real world. This ain't no magazine, this **** is real.

 

[CPT Nervous]

"Like most rights, the Second Amendment right is not unlimited. It is not a right to keep and carry any weapon whatsoever in any manner whatsoever and for whatever purpose."

Justice Scalia

With that, it becomes a privilege to carry.. (a very sad erosion of your rights). With the outright banning of automatic weapons, the SNS and a handful of other weapons, our precious 2nd amendment got gutted. These laws all aimed at non law abiding persons. (with little or no effect on them but plenty on the rest of us)


While not an expert on the laws, they are in fact vague and in many states, you can only OC under specific conditions and many do not allow you to have a loaded firearm in this condition..

Indiana lags 15 years behind CA in many laws.. Non permissive OC is one of them.. But rest assured, it is coming here. Pretending we are on an island is both silly and just makes you feel better to yourself.. When talking gun laws, you really should think at the national level, not locally..

Next is just an opin..
While there is little need for OC today (the wild west saw the first bans of OC) the right is gone in many places..

Many do not see it but the entire OC issue provides a very luscious smoke screen for what is really going on..

Call it what you like (it is all symantics) The govt is disarming the populace.. OC just provides an avenue to make gun owners look like rednecks to many that have no idea what a gun is good for..

1. Automatic firearms are not banned outright.

2. There are eight states that do not allow open carry. Eight. New York, Florida, Illinois, California, Texas, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. Every other state allows open carry. I do not know where you are getting your "facts" from.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

1. Automatic firearms are not banned outright.

2. There are eight states that do not allow open carry. Eight. New York, Florida, Illinois, California, Texas, South Carolina, Arkansas, and Oklahoma. Every other state allows open carry. I do not know where you are getting your "facts" from.

California still allows it under certain circumstance such as hunting or in non-incorporated areas. They still count as an OC state.

Oklahoma recently passed a bill into law ALLOWING OC for the first time since the 1800's. Yeah, they are taking away ALL of our rights because of OC. Get a life.

 

[CPT Nervous]

California still allows it under certain circumstance such as hunting or in non-incorporated areas. They still count as an OC state.

Oklahoma recently passed a bill into law ALLOWING OC for the first time since the 1800's. Yeah, they are taking away ALL of our rights because of OC. Get a life.

Awesome. So seven. Florida does, too, under certain circumstances. I was referring to states that do not allow OC outright, like Indiana does.

They'll get there, eventually. I hope.

 

[melensdad]

Indiana lags 15 years behind CA in many laws.. Non permissive OC is one of them.. But rest assured, it is coming here. Pretending we are on an island is both silly and just makes you feel better to yourself.. When talking gun laws, you really should think at the national level, not locally...

OK just for reference, CA is one of the ONLY states that is still taking away gun owners rights. Many states have been moving TOWARD the gun laws that already exist in Indiana. Iowa just moved from "MAY issue" to an Indiana style "SHALL issue" type of carry law. Wisconsin just moved to a allow concealed carry, and already allows Open Carry. Several states have moved to allow what is commonly called "Constitutional carry" which allows any citizen to carry without any sort of permit/license either openly or concealed.

Like you, I too am a business owner and I understand your position on Open Carry inside your confines. My business model and yours are radically different when it comes to gun carry, but its your right to set your rules. But with all due respect, when it comes to knowledge of gun laws I think you really need to brush up on your understanding of the laws. Your understanding of the current gun laws is woefully lacking in facts.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

Open Carry | OpenCarry.org

This one has not updated OK yet.

 

[Titanium_Frost]

But with all due respect, when it comes to knowledge of gun laws I think you really need to brush up on your understanding of the laws. Your understanding of the current gun laws is woefully lacking in facts.

 

[the1kidd03]

UCGG

 

[Roadie]

Wow, a BUNCH of us broke the law a couple weekends ago shooting machine guns, suppressed weapons, SBRs, SBS, and so on..

Including a few police officers..

For a supposed educated person, Fred, you are incredibly ill informed.. do you even read the website you joined? Hint, check out the NFA sections where machine guns are discussed, and *GASP* sold!

I hope you keep up on medical procedures better than you do gun laws..

 

[Hoosierdood]

Keep talking. You prove more and more how little you know. Sad you are not only a doctor (supposedly) but an FFL (also supposedly).

I'm convinced gun owners such as yourself are the absolute greatest threat to our rights that exist today. The crazy gun grabbers can be ignored but the "moderates" sound so convincing to the masses.

You probably read too many Guns & Ammo and think they apply to the real world. This ain't no magazine, this **** is real.

^^^ THIS ^^^

I am convinced that the GREATEST threat to our 2A rights are fellow gun owners who state "I am all for the second amendment, BUT..." They are the ones who are siding with the outright gun grabbers to impose "reasonable" infringements on our 2A. What makes them so dangerous is the fact that they LOOK like they are pro-gun. They even OWN guns. They may even have a LTCH. But they are definitely NOT true supporters of the 2A. Wolves in sheepdog's clothing is what they are.

 

[jeremy]

^^^ THIS ^^^

I am convinced that the GREATEST threat to our 2A rights are fellow gun owners who state "I am all for the second amendment, BUT..." They are the ones who are siding with the outright gun grabbers to impose "reasonable" infringements on our 2A. What makes them so dangerous is the fact that they LOOK like they are pro-gun. They even OWN guns. They may even have a LTCH. But they are definitely NOT true supporters of the 2A. Wolves in sheepdog's clothing is what they are.

No, note like wolves in a sheepdog's clothing. More like a opossum in sheepdog's clothing...

 

[Warlock254]

Why chose one when you can do both? 25 ACP in the pocket, 6" 357 on the hip.

 

[Warlock254]

Sorry wrong thread please delete my last 2 post