The Smartest Kids in the World: And How They Got That Way

[mrjarrell]

Here's a new book that's taking a look at education and what we're doing wrong, (and what other countries are doing right). Our educational system in a large majority of this nations schools is fubared beyond help. They've just given up on doing much more than the basics and warehousing children. Other countries are doing a helluva better job with their people and we really need to start taking a look at what they're doing and start emulating them, (as some of them are emulating what we used to do in this country, once upon a time). It's a damned sad commentary when an American company that I like has to go offshore to produce their products because they cannot find people who are qualified for even a factory line job. I am sure our homeschool regulars will be here advocating that all kids be removed from the schools and educated by their parents, but that's just not feasible for the majority of Americans and has not been for many a decade. Education in America is still, by and large, a local affair and one that can be addressed by most folks who want to get involved at that local level. Indiana has more than a few schools that are doing a decent job and the rest could stand to look at them, and other places to see what's working. (It would also help if we could get the legislators to do away with ISTEP and other tests that have nothing to do with educating kids, but that's only a part of the problem). This book looks like a worthwhile addition to anyones library, if they're interested in the issue.

Education standards: Best and brightest | The Economist

 

[BogWalker]

Might give it a read when I've got time. As a student, I am well in tune with how poor our system is. Lots of busy work, one size fits all policy, memorizing for the test, constraining free thought. I can learn more in a day studying my own interests than a week in school. Not to say I don't learn anything in school, just that a good majority of it is less than useful for me or poorly taught. I don't blame the educators. Some are less than stellar, but I've had more good teachers than bad ones. There's only so much a good teacher can do within our system though.

 

[Streak]

Here's a new book that's taking a look at education and what we're doing wrong, (and what other countries are doing right). Our educational system in a large majority of this nations schools is fubared beyond help. They've just given up on doing much more than the basics and warehousing children. Other countries are doing a helluva better job with their people and we really need to start taking a look at what they're doing and start emulating them, (as some of them are emulating what we used to do in this country, once upon a time). It's a damned sad commentary when an American company that I like has to go offshore to produce their products because they cannot find people who are qualified for even a factory line job. I am sure our homeschool regulars will be here advocating that all kids be removed from the schools and educated by their parents, but that's just not feasible for the majority of Americans and has not been for many a decade. Education in America is still, by and large, a local affair and one that can be addressed by most folks who want to get involved at that local level. Indiana has more than a few schools that are doing a decent job and the rest could stand to look at them, and other places to see what's working. (It would also help if we could get the legislators to do away with ISTEP and other tests that have nothing to do with educating kids, but that's only a part of the problem). This book looks like a worthwhile addition to anyones library, if they're interested in the issue.

Education standards: Best and brightest | The Economist

The problem stems from a funding perspective. I see schools all of the time building onto their athletic facilities. Sure some of these are, partially, paid for by "booster clubs", but the janitors and staff have to be paid to maintain that crap. It also takes the focus off of education. I can't remember how many "pep rallies" I was dragged to, as a requirement, to go cheer on some football/basketball/soccer team that less than 10 years later no one gives two ****s about. Meanwhile the best "computer" oriented class we had was a typing class. I graduated in 2004 and that was really on the curtails of the explosion in both indie development, web development, AND mobile development. No one could've predicted the influence of the iPhone, but we could've been teaching our kids how to write software or something like that over some bull**** sports thing.

I was lucky in that my school had some good teachers. My science teacher was awesome and actually knew his science, my English teacher worked hard for all of her students. I had one idiot teacher who kicked my twin out of class one day because (this was probably 12 years ago) he was making fun of Michael Jordan and saying that he got "what he deserved". My twin, a Jordan fan, speaks up and says "September 10th, 2000 Bobby Knight gets what he deserves" and he got kicked out of class. Same exact thing this teacher was saying, but with the name and date changed to match Bobby Knight's situation. That teacher cared more about some retarded athletics than he did about actual, important history.

Yank the athletics out of classrooms and quit giving jocks free passes. Refocus the money towards meaningful things like technical/shop classes, farming classes, computer and technology classes, and other things that are useful. Expand vocational programs. My vocational program in high school trained me in the Cisco CCNA and the Comptia A+ certification stuff. I went onto college with a lot more knowledge upfront...I did some networking electives classes and the only guys who were ahead of me were the one guy who was featured on Cisco.com and another guy whose parents had a ton of cash and bought them (they were roommates) a full stack including routers, switches, and a emulation system to test configs and emulate real-world scenarios.

Schools should be about education. Athletics has jack all to do with it and the only reason PE should be left in is to help fight obesity.

 

[wildhair]

The problem stems from a funding perspective. I see schools all of the time building onto their athletic facilities. Sure some of these are, partially, paid for by "booster clubs", but the janitors and staff have to be paid to maintain that crap. It also takes the focus off of education. I can't remember how many "pep rallies" I was dragged to, as a requirement, to go cheer on some football/basketball/soccer team that less than 10 years later no one gives two ****s about. Meanwhile the best "computer" oriented class we had was a typing class. I graduated in 2004 and that was really on the curtails of the explosion in both indie development, web development, AND mobile development. No one could've predicted the influence of the iPhone, but we could've been teaching our kids how to write software or something like that over some bull**** sports thing.

I was lucky in that my school had some good teachers. My science teacher was awesome and actually knew his science, my English teacher worked hard for all of her students. I had one idiot teacher who kicked my twin out of class one day because (this was probably 12 years ago) he was making fun of Michael Jordan and saying that he got "what he deserved". My twin, a Jordan fan, speaks up and says "September 10th, 2000 Bobby Knight gets what he deserves" and he got kicked out of class. Same exact thing this teacher was saying, but with the name and date changed to match Bobby Knight's situation. That teacher cared more about some retarded athletics than he did about actual, important history.

Yank the athletics out of classrooms and quit giving jocks free passes. Refocus the money towards meaningful things like technical/shop classes, farming classes, computer and technology classes, and other things that are useful. Expand vocational programs. My vocational program in high school trained me in the Cisco CCNA and the Comptia A+ certification stuff. I went onto college with a lot more knowledge upfront...I did some networking electives classes and the only guys who were ahead of me were the one guy who was featured on Cisco.com and another guy whose parents had a ton of cash and bought them (they were roommates) a full stack including routers, switches, and a emulation system to test configs and emulate real-world scenarios.

Schools should be about education. Athletics has jack all to do with it and the only reason PE should be left in is to help fight obesity.

Well said Streak, except our leaders want our population to be stupid and they see our education system as a success. They will acknowledge that our kids are falling behind when running for office but once elected they only suggest spending more money for more administrators and bureaucrats. The Unions and the federal government are the root of the problem but it has to be this way, the communist doctrine says so. They put a lot of emphasis on sports because it tends to take peoples minds off the real problems.

 

[jamil]

The problem stems from a funding perspective. I see schools all of the time building onto their athletic facilities. Sure some of these are, partially, paid for by "booster clubs", but the janitors and staff have to be paid to maintain that crap. It also takes the focus off of education. I can't remember how many "pep rallies" I was dragged to, as a requirement, to go cheer on some football/basketball/soccer team that less than 10 years later no one gives two ****s about. Meanwhile the best "computer" oriented class we had was a typing class. I graduated in 2004 and that was really on the curtails of the explosion in both indie development, web development, AND mobile development. No one could've predicted the influence of the iPhone, but we could've been teaching our kids how to write software or something like that over some bull**** sports thing.

I was lucky in that my school had some good teachers. My science teacher was awesome and actually knew his science, my English teacher worked hard for all of her students. I had one idiot teacher who kicked my twin out of class one day because (this was probably 12 years ago) he was making fun of Michael Jordan and saying that he got "what he deserved". My twin, a Jordan fan, speaks up and says "September 10th, 2000 Bobby Knight gets what he deserves" and he got kicked out of class. Same exact thing this teacher was saying, but with the name and date changed to match Bobby Knight's situation. That teacher cared more about some retarded athletics than he did about actual, important history.

Yank the athletics out of classrooms and quit giving jocks free passes. Refocus the money towards meaningful things like technical/shop classes, farming classes, computer and technology classes, and other things that are useful. Expand vocational programs. My vocational program in high school trained me in the Cisco CCNA and the Comptia A+ certification stuff. I went onto college with a lot more knowledge upfront...I did some networking electives classes and the only guys who were ahead of me were the one guy who was featured on Cisco.com and another guy whose parents had a ton of cash and bought them (they were roommates) a full stack including routers, switches, and a emulation system to test configs and emulate real-world scenarios.

Schools should be about education. Athletics has jack all to do with it and the only reason PE should be left in is to help fight obesity.

OMG!!! I think I agree with Streak on something!!!

If we have to have public schools at all, they should be about teaching students the knowledge and skills they need to reach the next level. I suppose athletics are a legitimate part of that for students who will chose that career path, but way too much emphasis is placed on that.

 

[mrjarrell]

The problem stems from a funding perspective. I see schools all of the time building onto their athletic facilities. Sure some of these are, partially, paid for by "booster clubs", but the janitors and staff have to be paid to maintain that crap. It also takes the focus off of education. I can't remember how many "pep rallies" I was dragged to, as a requirement, to go cheer on some football/basketball/soccer team that less than 10 years later no one gives two ****s about. Meanwhile the best "computer" oriented class we had was a typing class. I graduated in 2004 and that was really on the curtails of the explosion in both indie development, web development, AND mobile development. No one could've predicted the influence of the iPhone, but we could've been teaching our kids how to write software or something like that over some bull**** sports thing.

I was lucky in that my school had some good teachers. My science teacher was awesome and actually knew his science, my English teacher worked hard for all of her students. I had one idiot teacher who kicked my twin out of class one day because (this was probably 12 years ago) he was making fun of Michael Jordan and saying that he got "what he deserved". My twin, a Jordan fan, speaks up and says "September 10th, 2000 Bobby Knight gets what he deserves" and he got kicked out of class. Same exact thing this teacher was saying, but with the name and date changed to match Bobby Knight's situation. That teacher cared more about some retarded athletics than he did about actual, important history.

Yank the athletics out of classrooms and quit giving jocks free passes. Refocus the money towards meaningful things like technical/shop classes, farming classes, computer and technology classes, and other things that are useful. Expand vocational programs. My vocational program in high school trained me in the Cisco CCNA and the Comptia A+ certification stuff. I went onto college with a lot more knowledge upfront...I did some networking electives classes and the only guys who were ahead of me were the one guy who was featured on Cisco.com and another guy whose parents had a ton of cash and bought them (they were roommates) a full stack including routers, switches, and a emulation system to test configs and emulate real-world scenarios.

Schools should be about education. Athletics has jack all to do with it and the only reason PE should be left in is to help fight obesity.

I agree that school sports should be curtailed, especially given the huge numbers of privately run sports programs currently available, but funding is not really a primary issue. For many decades now school funding has been going up and up and up (and the taxes that support it have been rising, as well). While more than enough of that money has been relegated to sports programs a substantial chunk of it has been going where they want it. Administrators eat up a disproportionate amount of it as do pensions and benefits, but the classrooms do see a good amount of it. Teachers in many locales are underpaid and should be paid according to their position. But, its not funding that is holding our kids back. It's reaching methods, curriculum and expectations. School systems all too often teach to the lowest common denominator and have low expectations of all their students. Other countries do not have these lowered expectations and encourage excellence in academics, which we do not. Throwing more money at the problem is not the answer.

 

[88GT]

I agree that school sports should be curtailed, especially given the huge numbers of privately run sports programs currently available, but funding is not really a primary issue. For many decades now school funding has been going up and up and up (and the taxes that support it have been rising, as well). While more than enough of that money has been relegated to sports programs a substantial chunk of it has been going where they want it. Administrators eat up a disproportionate amount of it as do pensions and benefits, but the classrooms do see a good amount of it. Teachers in many locales are underpaid and should be paid according to their position. But, its not funding that is holding our kids back. It's reaching methods, curriculum and expectations. School systems all too often teach to the lowest common denominator and have low expectations of all their students. Other countries do not have these lowered expectations and encourage excellence in academics, which we do not. Throwing more money at the problem is not the answer.

This.

I am bringing up a comparison with homeschooling because it's because it is the example for which I have accurate data and it illustrates the fallacy that results are dependent on funding. So, no, this isn't about how homeschooling is superior because it costs less. The average yearly expenditure for a homeschooled student is $500. The average yearly expenditure for a government schooled student is just shy of $10,000. I think the homeschool amount is probably a little closer to $1000 when you factor in the inconsequential items that are used but generally not accounted for. And I do not know if the government school cost/kid includes things like overhead (electricity, maintenance, etc). The disparity would shrink if the numbers included only like-and-kind items. BUT. Several thousand dollars is still a substantial chunk, and it goes a long way towards proving that simply throwing more money at it is not a solution. (As does the fact that some of the school systems with the highest rates of failure have the greatest cost/kid.)

 

[Evermoore]

"I had one idiot teacher who kicked my twin out of class one day because (this was probably 12 years ago) he was making fun of Michael Jordan and saying that he got "what he deserved". My twin, a Jordan fan, speaks up and says "September 10th, 2000 Bobby Knight gets what he deserves" and he got kicked out of class. Same exact thing this teacher was saying, but with the name and date changed to match Bobby Knight's situation. That teacher cared more about some retarded athletics than he did about actual, important history."

Oh god there are two of him!!!

 

[zippy23]

sorry but its political. the dems run it, they dont care whether the kids do well or not. its about teaching tolerance for gays and muslims while hating this country and christians. Its about "expressing yourself" and no right and wrong. This is how they produce a population that votes their freedoms and money away for gov't control. We all know better, but who holds the power? The answer to the problems of this country boils down to voting. vote out the dems and it gets better, vote in conservatives and people that love the county and want to do whats right, then it gets better.

 

[Expat]

I thought that if anything, the article made it clear that funding was not the issue. We seem to want to our schools to do parenting things, not educating them in the areas needed. Their schools have high expectations, ours want to erase any form of competition. Their schools teach engineering, physics, calculus. Ours teach proper condom use. At the same time that school spending has gone up, the results have gone down.

 

[Streak]

I thought that if anything, the article made it clear that funding was not the issue. We seem to want to our schools to do parenting things, not educating them in the areas needed. Their schools have high expectations, ours want to erase any form of competition. Their schools teach engineering, physics, calculus. Ours teach proper condom use. At the same time that school spending has gone up, the results have gone down.

I agree we need to teach more of the sciences. I don't, however, think sex ed is a bad thing. Abstinence work on an individual level and if two consenting teens want to have sex, there's no force in the world that can stop it. This has been a common occurrence since before Shakespearean times and it's better to at least have teens thinking about the CONSEQUENCES rather than trying to please some sky fairy's ideals that many of the teens don't subscribe to to begin with.

No child left behind didn't help either.

 

[Streak]

sorry but its political. the dems run it, they dont care whether the kids do well or not. its about teaching tolerance for gays and muslims while hating this country and christians. Its about "expressing yourself" and no right and wrong. This is how they produce a population that votes their freedoms and money away for gov't control. We all know better, but who holds the power? The answer to the problems of this country boils down to voting. vote out the dems and it gets better, vote in conservatives and people that love the county and want to do whats right, then it gets better.

Tolerance is taught. I'm sorry you have problems with the gays and Muslims. I've met people from both groups and I thought they were just like anyone else. I've met plenty of "Sunday Christians" who stand around and chastise people or make snide remarks or otherwise shove their beliefs into everyone's face through whatever means they can -- even politically. That's why we don't have gay marriage -- because a group of "Christians" are too damned ingrained with the idea that they own some sort of precious trademark on a damn word.

I think it's pretty glaring for any self-described Christian to go rambling about how "the Dems" go around telling people to "love Muslims and hate Christians" when for over a decade Muslims have caught a very bad wrap in this nation.

If we can teach people to be tolerant of others, irregardless, of political, religious, sexual, physical, or cultural difference we'd be a hell of a lot better off today. And I think everyone is guilty of this in some form or fashion, myself included. Hell this world would be a lot better off if people knew how to get along.

 

[John Galt]