The War on Drugs : Is lost

[IndyMonkey]

Communism anyone?

People throw this term around on this board with little regard, but the way you guys are talking, it's not too far fetched.

Is there a nation in this world that can function without a police force?

Im more or a realist, I have seen what people will do for a cheese sandwich.

 

[groovatron]

Its not people like me that would cause the problems if drugs were illegal.

Its the population that do not have the self control to see what damage the drugs do. Im guessing its the same part of the population that eats 4k calories a day and cant understand or care that they are fat.

So make MacDonalds illegal, right?

I'm still trying to understand where it begins and where it ends with you.

 

[IndyMonkey]

So make MacDonalds illegal, right?

I'm still trying to understand where it begins and where it ends with you.

If I wasnt happy where we are now, I would be at the state house tomorrow instead of a race track.

Thats how it works, if you have such an issue with the way things are I would suggest you talk to your law makers instead of a roofer on a message board.

And yes, McDonalds would be a good starting point, the food is garbage.(thats sarcasm) well not all of it as there food is garbage but I dont want them banned.

 

[groovatron]

Is there a nation in this world that can function without a police force?

Im more or a realist, I have seen what people will do for a cheese sandwich.

I also consider myself a realist and the reality is that prohibition does not work. It doesn't solve any problems, only creates far more advanced ones. This reality is based on facts from the past and present.

Got any examples of successful prohibition that I'm missing?

 

[E5RANGER375]

Im more or a realist, I have seen what people will do for a cheese sandwich.

Im a realist too!! I've seen what a fat girl will do for a piece of candy (fat girl bait). If they get too close ..... take it out of your pocket and give it to a friend

 

[Lex Concord]

Im a realist too!! I've seen what a fat girl will do for a piece of candy (fat girl bait). If they get too close ..... take it out of your pocket and give it to a friend

You have far too much fun on here. That ought to be banned!

 

[groovatron]

If I wasnt happy where we are now, I would be at the state house tomorrow instead of a race track.

Thats how it works, if you have such an issue with the way things are I would suggest you talk to your law makers instead of a roofer on a message board.

And yes, McDonalds would be a good starting point, the food is garbage.(thats sarcasm) well not all of it as there food is garbage but I dont want them banned.

Oh, my bad. I could have swore you mentioned something about the government needing to "amp up" the war on drugs.

I look at INGO as educational and recreational. It's break time for me. I have my opinions and feel as though I express them with intelligence. Last I checked, I was reading in the General Politics section. I am not on a political crusade, just posting my opinions on the OP's subject. If you are all hunky dory with our governments policies, then maybe you should stick to the Break Room.

 

[IndyMonkey]

Oh, my bad. I could have swore you mentioned something about the government needing to "amp up" the war on drugs.

I look at INGO as educational and recreational. It's break time for me. I have my opinions and feel as though I express them with intelligence. Last I checked, I was reading in the General Politics section. I am not on a political crusade, just posting my opinions on the OP's subject. If you are all hunky dory with our governments policies, then maybe you should stick to the Break Room.

Your going to have to start paying attention to the smiley faces, like the one I posted about amping up the war on drugs.

As for your political opinion, it sounds to me like you are not happy with out laws.

No big deal though, Im sure our law makers hear from less than 1% of the general public.

 

[IndyMonkey]

1,427 post to go

 

[E5RANGER375]

1,427 post to go

i'm gonna win

 

[Lex Concord]

i'm gonna win

PWs

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Originally Posted by IndyMonkey
The purpose of my post was to show you that law abiding people dont break laws because we have something worth losing.

No law stopping me from owning guns...Im going to own alot of them.

No law stopping me from smoking weed, I would come home and get high as a kite to make my back pain from work go away.

1). One must have something worth losing to be law abiding?

Otherwise good points!

 

[downzero]

How can you be addicted to something that is not available?

It will never not be available. That's the problem.

It's the fallacy of believing that because something is banned that it will not be available that fuels the madness of the drug war.

If guns were banned, only people with mills and lathes might have guns, but there'd still be guns. And people would most likely be willing to kill each other to get them.

When alcohol was banned, only people with stills or friends with stills or brewing equipment had alcohol. It was hard to find, but available, and people killed each other over it.

Abortion is banned throughout the world, abortions still happen on the black market, people die, and it is extremely unsafe to get the procedure in a place like that. Regardless of what one thinks about normative abortion policy, it is a fact that abortions are statistically safer than childbirth at all but the latest stages of pregnancy. Interestingly, now people kill each other because it's legal instead of illegal. Go figure.

Drugs are banned, and guess what? People with money still have drugs, just like people with money had alcohol and abortions when they were banned, and just as people would have guns if they could pay the price in a world with a gun ban.

Prohibition has never solved anything. It has not made drugs any less available, just like huge sin taxes haven't had any remarkable effect on the consumption of cigarettes.

Interestingly, cigarettes are much more comparable to drugs than any of these other issues, however. We finally recognized that addiction itself is a medical problem, not a legal or criminal problem. Instead of using force, we've used information. The dangers of cigarettes have become widely known, and what do you know--people from my generation smoke at levels far less than generations before us.

Addiction (which doesn't apply to marijuana at all) is the real problem. Addiction does cause a loss to society. Addiction is the inefficiency that we need to cure. The problem is that you can't use force to cure addiction. You cannot beat someone until they stop smoking or using cocaine.

The solution to eating disorders, nicotine addiction, or being a crack addict cannot be to lock someone in a cage for 23 hours a day against their will at a $40,000 per year cost to the taxpayers. It doesn't work. It hasn't worked.

We have the world's largest prison population. We have 5% of the world's population and 25% of the world's prison population. 60% of the people in prison are there because of drug-related offenses. If this is not complete and utter failure, I don't know what is.

The funny thing I find about this topic is that conservatives constantly berate progressives for being void of logic. They tell the progressives that social programs do not work, that they destroy self-reliance, that they costs huge amounts of money, and most of all, that they don't create their intended results.

Well I've got news for those same conservatives who bash on the progressives: your position on this issue is as logically bankrupt as the progressives' is on social programs.

The war on drugs is most atrocious failure of logic in our time. It has prompted us to militarize our police, build huge factory-like buildings full of cages, and caused us to imprison more people than any other country in the world because people want to poison their own bodies.

And instead of recognizing the flawed logic or the lack of results, we just continue doing the same thing over and over again, learning nothing from the past, and throwing more money at a failed solution.

The question those of us examining the results and paying for this mess keep asking is....why?

1). One must have something worth losing to be law abiding?

Otherwise good points!

In his world, yes. Because he advocates enforcing laws that violate the laws of man (specifically, the first concept--that I own my body), the only thing left is force, which is all the government has. The government cannot legitimately get us to submit our own self-ownership without force or the threat of force. That's why this entire thing is intellectually bankrupt--because it requires us to submit our own personal sovereignty to a threat of force.

 

[lashicoN]

Great post, Downzero. All facts and figures, no "this is how I feel". Thanks for all of the information and insight. Your post should kill the debate going on in this thread, but I think a few will manage to either argue with your facts or twist a word or two.

 

[SavageEagle]

Alot has happened in this thread. There are plenty of personal opinions about drug use and where it leads, or if it should be legal or not. The important thing to focus on though is not if drugs are bad or good, but who decides or if anyone can truly even know.
I believe (right now anyway, i often change my ideas) that that more freedoms we are allowed, good or bad, the better we become as individuals at making critical decisions.
With that belief i feel that if you don't have the option to make bad decisions, you won't know how to make good ones. I also feel like while some choices are bad for some people, that doesn't make it bad for everyone.
Our schools, and our government make it so easy to just coast thru live. We are quickly losing the most precious of our resources, our individuality. We are different, we walk different paths, and we strive for different dreams. Who am I, and who are you to decide what is right or wrong for anyone else to do?
Don't get me wrong, laws are important, but i believe in order for a law to placed into effect it must meet a strict set of criteria.
I couldn't hope to have all the answers, and deciding the criteria for a law to be "lawful" would take help from people around me, but in my mind it would go something like this: In order for a law to be places into effect it must: A- Be designed to stop people from doing things that effect other people (I.E. Must have a victim) B- Must be punishable in a way that rectifies the crime. (I.E. If you steal something, you have to pay to have it replaced, or work off the debt to the victim in some other way) and C- Laws must be written by those who will be held to them. (I.E. You can;t make laws for other people, this will definitely include federal and state lawmakers)

Wow, a kinda long post from me this time. I am wrong alot so please don't be offened by my wrongness.. Oh BTW...i am not scared...i DO smoke the pot...(oddly enough with this rant though not right now..)

EXCELLENT post. And repped not just for honesty, but for the real content of the post. Yes, we can shoot some stuff too.

Im a realist too!! I've seen what a fat girl will do for a piece of candy (fat girl bait). If they get too close ..... take it out of your pocket and give it to a friend

You have far too much fun on here. That ought to be banned!

Man this thread took a heck of turn. I think more people on here smoke weed than will admit it.

 

[lashicoN]

Man this thread took a heck of turn. I think more people on here smoke weed than will admit it.

I thought it was tobacco every time, I swear.

 

[NordicHeathenVinlander]

Ok, DZ, You own your body. Where does this start and end? Where SHOULD it start?

 

[ATOMonkey]

I'm of the opinion that all "drugs" should be legalized as well.

Legalize it and watch gangs disappear all over the country.

 

[MinuteMan47]

Addiction (which doesn't apply to marijuana at all) is the real problem. Addiction does cause a loss to society. Addiction is the inefficiency that we need to cure. The problem is that you can't use force to cure addiction. You cannot beat someone until they stop smoking or using cocaine.

Actually, addiction does apply to marijuana. That is why we need to make Cheetos illegal...

 

[SavageEagle]

Sorry, I didn't think my post made it last night.

Oh, and I'm sorry, but if you legalize drugs, gangs will NOT disappear. That's VERY naive. Gangs will just find another way to make money. Like jacking more cars, or catalytic converters, or something. Gangs are a whole nuther animal. They only use the drug trade to make money. If they can't use drugs for money any longer, they'll just find something else. Maybe a new more harmful drug. Either way, gangs are not going anywhere. But that's a whoooooole nuther thread in and of itself.