There won't be confiscation.

[cook5oh]

Disagree.. Lots of people are killed in secondary colisions. Car A hits car B and car B goes out of control and strikes car C OR a group of pedestrians. One reason that car B goes out is control is the driver is no longer held in place by a seat belt where he/she has a better chance of controlling the car and has been thrown over into the passenger side.

Yes, the othe guy not wearing a seat belt can affect others..

Again this isn't the topic of discussion here. But if you must go that route. I've literally worked hundreds of accidents, and have never once come into that scenario. Thats just a what if scenario. Is it possible? Maybe. But if you hit another car hard enough that you still have inertia to strike a 3rd car and kill the people inside, I doubt your seat belts gonna keep you in control of the vehicle. The extreme shock from hitting the first vehicle will disorient you.

Again I DIGRESS. I'm done with this argument. No more please. Haha!!!!

 

[Faine]

It's too tedious, too visible, too dangerous, too inflammatory.

Nope, I think it would be like the feds do with states - use money (and taxes) as bait. Why do we have seatbelt laws in IN? Why is the DUI limit .08%? Because we don't get Uncle Sam's money if we don't follow Uncle Sam's rules.

Some thing for guns.

"Mr. Smith, our records show you own an AR-15. You will be ineligible for tax refunds, Medicare and Social Security benefits until you comply with BATFE disarmament procedures."

Money is a powerful motivator and now instead of LOSING something (gun rights) you gain SOMETHING (money from the gov't teat). Casinos know more about the psychology of winning and losing than anyone. Ask them, they'll tell you they can take a $1000 from someone in one night, but if they give them a ticket to see Celine Dion, they'll walk away happy and come back again to drop another grand.

Sure, you won't fall for this, but a lot of people will. It doesn't require law enforcement and there's nothing the states can do to stop it.

Thoughts?

Here's the thing, this only works one time. I myself probably won't see Medicare coverage, I most certainly won't be seeing social security payouts and as for withholding my tax refund, we'll, I'll go to work the next day and change my dependant deduction to 99 and set up an auto withdrawal into a savings account and just pay what I owe at the end of the year. The government would need to do something NOW that is PERMANENT. If it's legislation that will take years to enforce then you can just hold out until sympathetic parties regain power and reverse what has been done. I have sealed water proof containers and a shovel, so does the next guy, time is our friend not the government's.

 

[hondatech2k2]

It's too tedious, too visible, too dangerous, too inflammatory.

Nope, I think it would be like the feds do with states - use money (and taxes) as bait. Why do we have seatbelt laws in IN? Why is the DUI limit .08%? Because we don't get Uncle Sam's money if we don't follow Uncle Sam's rules.

Some thing for guns.

"Mr. Smith, our records show you own an AR-15. You will be ineligible for tax refunds, Medicare and Social Security benefits until you comply with BATFE disarmament procedures."

Money is a powerful motivator and now instead of LOSING something (gun rights) you gain SOMETHING (money from the gov't teat). Casinos know more about the psychology of winning and losing than anyone. Ask them, they'll tell you they can take a $1000 from someone in one night, but if they give them a ticket to see Celine Dion, they'll walk away happy and come back again to drop another grand.

Sure, you won't fall for this, but a lot of people will. It doesn't require law enforcement and there's nothing the states can do to stop it.

Thoughts?

So stop paying taxes? If the government tries to revoke a promise of entitlements from you after paying taxes for said entitlements, then the assumption could be presumed that you no longer have to pay them? Just a curious thought.

I would say that if one were ever in a situation like that it would be time to work under the table due to "tragic loss of employment".

 

[JoshuaW]

There are a few things wrong with this situation, first things first, a tax refund is an over payment of taxes. They simply can not arbitrarily hold back money that is not their's. A tax refund is not part of the government teat, it is your money. So something there would have to change, and that change would have a lot of people wanting to know why some bureaucrat needs the authority to withhold anyone's tax refund.

Second, which is an even larger part, there is no database. Nothing. They don't even have copies of 4473s in a centralized location. They would have nothing to go on.

 

[JettaKnight]

There are a few things wrong with this situation, first things first, a tax refund is an over payment of taxes. They simply can not arbitrarily hold back money that is not their's. A tax refund is not part of the government teat, it is your money. So something there would have to change, and that change would have a lot of people wanting to know why some bureaucrat needs the authority to withhold anyone's tax refund.

Second, which is an even larger part, there is no database. Nothing. They don't even have copies of 4473s in a centralized location. They would have nothing to go on.

I know you're right on both. But doesn't the IRS withhold for child support in some cases?

I think my point still holds - getting people to turn in their guns is far easier than going and taking their guns.

 

[cook4army]

My Iraqi terp used to say: "Bob, Americans think of time in days/ weeks/ months or even a few years, Iraqi's think of time in generations". The same thing is true with the antis. They have openly stated they want to dry up the supply so maybe in the next generation guns won't be an issue.

Bob

Personally, this is where I see this going. I see the Government drying up the supply of both the ammo, and the weapons themselves. I think that knocking on our doors and demanding our weapons will result in alot of fatalities on both sides of the door. I also think that openly trying to take our 2A rights, and our weapons will result in a "civil dispute" that will split this nation.

As far as withholding our social security and medicare benefits from us for not complying, at the rate that Bat-Sh*t Crazy Barry is going, we wont have the darn things anyways.

Just my

 

[lashicoN]

So I have to turn in my defensive tools or I cannot vote and won't receive a tax refund? Darn. If it comes to that point, there won't be any taxes to refund. Those actions violate the terms of the contract, rendering it all void. No legitimate government/Constitution = no taxation.

Second, which is an even larger part, there is no database. Nothing. They don't even have copies of 4473s in a centralized location.

HA! And they don't read your emails either.

 

[dhnorris]

If millions of Americans were to change withholding to married and 20 .gov would definitely feel it.

 

[tyler79durdan]

Its up to each of us to remember that we are, by nature, our own sovereign entity. We need to remove our mouths from the tainted teat that is our current fed gov.

 

[cobber]

Anti gunners arent stupid. They can be sneaky with their agenda. It will be a slow process. One way or the other.

I'm not sure I agree with this. It's actually a flash in the pan process. Their only tactic is go for broke with astonishingly blatant infringements.

IF it were a long term agenda, they would have started in 1968 or 1994 and every year introduced something new.

INSTEAD, they react to tragedies with some asinine regulation, run around baying at the moon, and then either claim victory or ***** about the NRA.

We give them far too much credit for having some nefarious and sinister plan. Not to say they aren't sinister and nefarious, such as Mayor Bloomers, Andy Kuomo, and that little feller in Chicago.

Barry simply hitches rides on whatever is popular with the DU crowd.


Again, don't give them credit for actually being able to put two and two together. Face them down this time and they'll slink off again.

 

[Car Ramrod]

There is a proposed bill in NY that would require $1mil insurance coverage for gun owners. The insurance would run $1600-2000 a year. This would price most people out of owning guns, forcing them to sell or turn them in.

N.Y. bill would force gun owners to buy at least $1M in insurance - Washington Times

 

[Cpt Caveman]

Anybody that thinks the fedgov doesn't have a list of who owns guns in this country is living in a fairy tale.
I mean, come on , Really?
You think they'd be able to resist the urge to retain that information , somewhere for emergency purposes? After all who could it possibly hurt if nobody knows about it? Its for our own good so why fret about it? They have to keep us safe from ourselves don't you know?

Time to wake up folks.The wolf is at the door.

 

[JettaKnight]

Anybody that thinks the fedgov doesn't have a list of who owns guns in this country is living in a fairy tale.
I mean, come on , Really?
You think they'd be able to resist the urge to retain that information , somewhere for emergency purposes? After all who could it possibly hurt if nobody knows about it? Its for our own good so why fret about it? They have to keep us safe from ourselves don't you know?

Time to wake up folks.The wolf is at the door.

As in wikipedia, "citation needed".

I'm sure you're right - they're stored right next to the EMPs and weather control machines in Area 51. My question to you is how'd they collect it (the serial number)? It's not transmitted over the phone during a NICS check. It's only on paper with the dealer.

Until this database is in place, not much can be done to collect guns or punish owners.

 

[Bunnykid68]

As in wikipedia, "citation needed".

I'm sure you're right - they're stored right next to the EMPs and weather control machines in Area 51. My question to you is how'd they collect it (the serial number)? It's not transmitted over the phone during a NICS check. It's only on paper with the dealer.

Until this database is in place, not much can be done to collect guns or punish owners.

Why would they need to know serial numbers? All they need to know is if you own anything.

 

[worddoer]

My point is, it's unlikely that there will ever be a "Turn it in or we kick in your door." confiscation scheme. There's just too many guns to do that and too many of us "cold dead hands" type. I'm speculating the real method for decreasing the numbers will come in some semi-voluntary method whereby you have to choose between guns and [money/other freedom (voting?)].

Now how exactly you get on this list is unknown. Could F4473, but that's unreliable and requires a LOT of work to create a database. So my guess is that a database would have to precede this infringement.

Exactly...

There are those who say "Progressives may want to take all our guns, but a ban will never happen"..."The politicians know what a hot potato this is and will not touch it because they want to be re-elected"..."The senate and the house have not even voted on anything yet". And they are right. And yet will the masses of people comply? Probably. But I believe they will do so through coercion rather than by force.

The government does not have enough resources to tactically hit every household that would not comply if done so by force. We may be able to print the money to buy the supplies needed for this like guns and armor. But there will not be enough manpower to accomplish this.

Not to mention that to hit everyone tactically with force would create more sympathy and actually bolster a resistance. This method works against them, not for them.

No...if you want to accomplish your goal, you use blackmail / coercion. Hit people where it hurts, but not with force. Examples...

The government could easily use regulations to stop the import of all firearms and ammunition. Unless your law enforcement of course. That means no Glock, CZ, Beretta, Benelli, Armscor, Walther, Izhmash, Steyr, Tanfoglio, Sig Sauer, Uberti, Aguila ammo, Bear / Wolf / Tula ammo, Fiocchi ammo, PMC ammo, Prvi Partizan ammo, Sellier & Bellot ammo. And they won't outright ban these items...that would probably take a vote from congress. No...they will simply make it financially impossible to import. Just like our wonderful 922r rule, they could make a rule that 90% of the materials in any product needs to be produced and manufactured here in the USA. That sounds like you are supporting the US...right? Now what do you think would happen to the industry if that happened. There is no way for a foreign product to have 90% American components. They might as well build in the US. However, it would probably take several decades for US manufacturing to increase enough to supply for the demand. Several decades that they could use to make laws more stringent or just outright ban guns.

They could use those other acronym departments to enact fees and taxes that would make firearm ownership prohibitive. Just like Chicago's "violence fee" and "ammunition fee" that was proposed. What if the ATF said there is now a $500 fee for every firearm purchased and a $5,000 fee for NFA items like suppressors, SBR's and the like. And every round of ammunition would have a $1.00 fee to help cover the cost of health care for shooting victims. Again, that sounds like you are helping hurt people...right? Nope...you have made firearm ownership difficult at best and financially impossible for most Americans.

More Examples...

IRS could hold all tax returns until you comply.

Once government health care is setup, refuse medical treatment to those who do not comply.

Refuse to accept a suspects children into public school until you comply.

Deny all government payments until your comply. Unemployment, Food Stamps, Housing Assistance, Childcare Assistance, etc.

Refuse to allow suspects to use public transportation like air travel, trains or buses until you comply.

Refuse to renew or issue government documents until you comply. Drivers Licenses, Birth Certificates, Social Security Cards, Passports...all the important documents you need in life.

And these are just the few I could think up in a little time. This would make the majority comply without firing a single shot. Compliance through blackmail / coercion. If a ban is instigated, this is how it will be enforced. People keep saying "it will never happen" because of the current political environment in the house and the senate. Keep in mind that in the past few years, there have been 40,000 laws that hit the books nationwide EACH YEAR. And out of all those laws, it is estimated that only 10% of those are voted on. The rest are just added at the governments will through those acronym agencies.

Most politicians may be liars and thieves. But they are not stupid. Just look to this inspirational quote "The more you complicate the pluming, the easier it is to stop up the drain." Scotty on Star Trek.

Just complicate things so much that you can't live your daily life unless you comply, and the anti-gun crowd can accomplish their goal without a single vote or without breaking down a single door.

 

[tenniskid004]

the government will find a way...whether it's killing millions with a "necessary flu shot" or by not allowing anyone with a misdemeanor or a traffic ticket to own a firearm.
the ultimate goal for these oligarchs is to create a world government...they will find a way

 

[tenniskid004]

Also, if they can't take away the guns, they'll go after ammunition. which they have already started to do. They are taking up the market, closing the borders for trade, and jacking up prices for ammo. Pretty soon, the'll try and get it to the point where a single 9mm round is $5.

They have done this with other things before. Sin taxes basically.

Really, when you think about it, there are millions of ways in which the government could basically take away your ability to protect yourself effectively against the government.

 

[lashicoN]

Anybody that thinks the fedgov doesn't have a list of who owns guns in this country is living in a fairy tale.
I mean, come on , Really?

The entire industry is a roundabout list. The serial number is tied to the manufacturer, who logs which distributor they sold said firearm to, who logs which dealer they sold said firearm to, who retains a form 4473 with end purchaser info (as well as firearm info - make, model, type, serial number) all over it, until the dealer eventually, inevitably passes all of these forms over to BATF.

As in wikipedia, "citation needed".

I'm sure you're right - they're stored right next to the EMPs and weather control machines in Area 51. My question to you is how'd they collect it (the serial number)? It's not transmitted over the phone during a NICS check. It's only on paper with the dealer.

Until this database is in place, not much can be done to collect guns or punish owners.

Upon non-renewal (which happens often) of a Federal Firearms License, said FFL must submit all Form 4473s to BATF. Now, why else would they make this requirement? They really like paper?

 

[brrytrry]

The government will do just as the terrorists have started doing. Instead of one big attack, such as door to door gun confiscation, it will be thousands of tiny little cuts until all of our gun rights have bled out and the 2A is all but dead.

It will be small concessions that most gun owners say I can live with that as long as they don't do this. It will be restrictions on certain manufacturers or firearms and most will say that's ok as long as they don't take this away. It will be extra fees when you purchase a firearm and most will say well its just another fee. It will be billion round ammo orders for the government to tie up supply lines and create demand and high prices, most will say this shortage will pass.

When all this has come to pass we will reminisce about the good old days as we pay a $1 a round for 22lr. Get fingerprinted, pay a $200 fee and wait 1 month to buy any firearm.

 

[T2D4]

My point is, it's unlikely that there will ever be a "Turn it in or we kick in your door." confiscation scheme.

there never will be. anyone worried that the 2nd amendment will disappear slept through american history class.