Thoughts on Fluoridation?

[wolfts01]

I'm not exactly certain this belongs here, but I figure it fits with the Agenda 21 deal as a "conspiracy theory" so I'll just get to the point.

What is your opinion as to why the gov't is forcing water fluoridation on American citizens when 98% of the rest of the civilized world has rejected it?

On a side note: should covert chemical warfare/genocide/whatever be something that is prepped for?


As for me, I'm not sure what I believe, but the scientific evidence testifying to the dangers of fluoride is enough to make me question the public water supply even now. Now there are a LOT of bogus conspiracies and false evidence out there, but that should have no weight in considering the actual research that has been done. The Nazis DID use fluoridation as a crowd-control mechanism.

I wanted to bring this up because I have recently begun a self-experiment where I am only drinking distilled water and bathing in cool water to see if it impacts my health at all, so I have fluoride on the mind.

Edit: Just remembered about an odd experience when I was looking to buy some distilled water. On the same day both Wal-mart and Krogers were completely out of distilled water, but the bottled tap (I mean "spring") water was fully stocked up. I'm not saying any direct link to fluoride, but it is interesting nonetheless.

 

[Principal Skinr]

I'm not exactly certain this belongs here, but I figure it fits with the Agenda 21 deal as a "conspiracy theory" so I'll just get to the point.

What is your opinion as to why the gov't is forcing water fluoridation on American citizens when 98% of the rest of the civilized world has rejected it?

On a side note: should covert chemical warfare/genocide/whatever be something that is prepped for?


As for me, I'm not sure what I believe, but the scientific evidence testifying to the dangers of fluoride is enough to make me question the public water supply even now. Now there are a LOT of bogus conspiracies and false evidence out there, but that should have no weight in considering the actual research that has been done. The Nazis DID use fluoridation as a crowd-control mechanism.

I wanted to bring this up because I have recently begun a self-experiment where I am only drinking distilled water and bathing in cool water to see if it impacts my health at all, so I have fluoride on the mind.

Edit: Just remembered about an odd experience when I was looking to buy some distilled water. On the same day both Wal-mart and Krogers were completely out of distilled water, but the bottled tap (I mean "spring") water was fully stocked up. I'm not saying any direct link to fluoride, but it is interesting nonetheless.

I dunno, but look at their teeth and it appears they may have made a mistake.

 

[wolfts01]

I dunno, but look at their teeth and it appears they may have made a mistake.

It has actually been shown that fluoridated vs non-fluoridated populations have no statistically significant difference in the occurrence of tooth decay. Also, fluoride can cause yellowing of the teeth (not as much as tea and crumpets, though ).

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Distilled water will KILL you, it has no mineral content. Fluoride causes lots of side effects. Making one docile is among them. Artificial sweeteners are actually a greater concern however.....Agenda 21 is not a conspiracy theory, it is avail. for you to read right on the UN website. Lots of the USA would not get on board with it so they have begun implementing it subversively and the publications instructing city council members and such at a local level how to implement it are also avail. there.
DSD :: Resources - Publications - Core Publications

 

[wolfts01]

Distilled water will KILL you, it has no mineral content. Fluoride causes lots of side effects. Making one docile is among them. Artificial sweeteners are actually a greater concern however.....Agenda 21 is not a conspiracy theory, it is avail. for you to read right on the UN website. Lots of the USA would not get on board with it so they have begun implementing it subversively and the publications instructing city council members and such at a local level how to implement it are also avail. there.
DSD :: Resources - Publications - Core Publications

I'm not too worried about missing out on minerals due to the diet I am on, and I also take a multivitamin/mineral supplement. I would still much rather be able to drink natural water, but my only supply at the moment is fluoridated. I also feel better knowing there are no pharmaceuticals in distilled water.

I meant the quotations around "conspiracy theory", because as long as there is valid evidence it does not meet the definition. Fluoride IS poisoning us, and it IS completely ineffective in its intended purpose. Fluoridation without consent is, IMHO, damned good evidence that something is amiss, agenda 21 related or not. I'm almost hesitant to read more about this agenda.

 

[Kmcinnes]

Because we are concerned about the health benefits we enjoy well water, I'm dumb enough without the fluoride treatments

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Look into how "nutrasweet" bypassed the FDA approval process and then look into how "aspartame" (the chemical that is branded as nutrasweet) is a neuro toxin. Now look into some of the other artificial sweeteners, and then try to purchase things like chewing gum that don't contain it. Anyone else remember getting that little 5 pack of rainblow gum in the mail about 30 some odd years ago after we discovered saccharin was a carcinogen?

 

[nomadicmutt]

As someone who is going to the dentist tomorrow morning to get another 4 cavities filled, I'm glad of the flouride in the water.

Explanation:
I get kidney stones if I don't drink highly acidic lemonade (Strange but true. My urologist told me to give it a shot, and by golly it works! way better than surgery). The acid ends up getting flushed out in my kidneys, where it eats away the stones. (Fun fact: it also makes my feet smell weird)

The downside is that it's been eating away my teeth too.

I now use prescription fluoride toothpaste (at 1.1% sodium flouride) to give my teeth a fighting chance in the war against lemonade.

Just my 2 cents: I happen to be a fan of fluoride.

 

[Kmcinnes]

The FDA approves so much bad $#*% it's crazy. I do believe to some extent in the conspiracy, we all know now that for years Micky D's and others have been using pink slime filler treated with amonia in beef since 2001. I am a firm believer that all ingredients, processes need to be listed on any food item, including what pesticides etc on produce so we can make the choice based on our research whether we want our kids eating this crap.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Okay, here is the back door to FDA approval. Without FDA approval, a product can not be SOLD, but giving it away is okay. When the public was scared away from saccharin and desperate for a replacement, the KNOWN poison was put into gumballs and sent out to every house in the USA. People liked it and petitioned the FDA to approve it sans the regular process and viola! Now we can't even get food without it! Seriously, stuff containing high fructose corn syrup AND sugar also contain the poison used as an artificial sweetener. WTF?

 

[Valvestate]

As someone who is going to the dentist tomorrow morning to get another 4 cavities filled, I'm glad of the flouride in the water.

Explanation:
I get kidney stones if I don't drink highly acidic lemonade (Strange but true. My urologist told me to give it a shot, and by golly it works! way better than surgery). The acid ends up getting flushed out in my kidneys, where it eats away the stones. (Fun fact: it also makes my feet smell weird)

The downside is that it's been eating away my teeth too.

I now use prescription fluoride toothpaste (at 1.1% sodium flouride) to give my teeth a fighting chance in the war against lemonade.

Just my 2 cents: I happen to be a fan of fluoride.

Eat lots of meat/protein?

 

[Timjoebillybob]

I'm not too worried about missing out on minerals due to the diet I am on, and I also take a multivitamin/mineral supplement. I would still much rather be able to drink natural water, but my only supply at the moment is fluoridated. I also feel better knowing there are no pharmaceuticals in distilled water.

It's not just that distilled doesn't have minerals, the absence of minerals in the water will actually leach the minerals from your body. Taking a supplement will help that though if the supplement contains everything that it leaches. And it seems a bit counterproductive to take something that strips from your body what you want to put in it. Another thing is that distilled water due to the lack of minerals absorbs co2 from the air quite well and turns it acidic.

The leaching effect can be beneficial during cleansing routines though from what I've heard and is also used occasionally in the medical field I believe.

As someone who is going to the dentist tomorrow morning to get another 4 cavities filled, I'm glad of the flouride in the water.

I now use prescription fluoride toothpaste (at 1.1% sodium flouride) to give my teeth a fighting chance in the war against lemonade.

Just my 2 cents: I happen to be a fan of fluoride.

Flouride as a topical treatment is effective in preventing tooth decay. Ingesting it is not. So the toothpaste will help, drinking water with it in it not so much.

And has your Dentist talked to you about sealants? I used to know a guy who had seriously bad problems with his teeth. Multiple cavities every visit and he took care of his teeth. The Dr. started him on sealants every 6mo and it worked wonders.

 

[lucky4034]

I worked in the Dental Field for a good portion of my military career and the flouride ion is good for your teeth and i'll continue to supply my children with tap water to make sure they get some; ingesting flouride can be important in the developmental phase of teeth. (rather than having them drink only bottled water)

 

[lucky4034]

And has your Dentist talked to you about sealants? I used to know a guy who had seriously bad problems with his teeth. Multiple cavities every visit and he took care of them. The Dr. started him on sealants every 6mo and it worked wonders.

Say what? I used to put sealants on teeth (very common procedure)... There seems to be some kind of break down in communication.

1. Sealants do not reverse tooth decay...
2. Sealants contain flouride which can be helpful in strengthening enamel
3. Sealants should not normally need replaced every 6 months... A properly placed sealant should last for awhile under normal circumstances (you don't chew rocks or scrape your teeth with metal objects trying to dislodge them)

Basically what a sealant does is fill deep crevices on the chewing surface of teeth to prevent food and bacteria from getting lodged in there. It makes it easier for a toothbrush to wipe out the bad stuff... They are great for preventing future problems, but they won't fix any existing problems.

Hopefully, your buddies doctor isn't replacing all of the sealants he places every six months... If he is, I'd ask why? I guess if someone has sealants on every molar, then it possible that one or so may dislodge, but I've had the same sealants on my teeth since 2001. A well placed sealant should last more than 6 months... if it doesn't, then it should be free :P

(btw... I do not trust the intentions of all dentists. I think many dentists have a bad habit of selling patients on frivolous procedures to fatten the bill. Because lets face it.. the normal person doesn't have a clue on what they are being told. I'm not suggesting that dentists do fillings or pull teeth that don't need it, although I'm sure that happens OFTEN as well... but sealants are a harmless procedure that require very little overhead or time and can rake in big bucks)

 

[N8RV]

Aha! Finally, a topic on which I am qualified to comment.

Most of you have forgotten more about guns than I'll ever learn, but when it comes to teeth, I'm good to go.

First off, what passes as "scientific evidence" to the general public often is not. It's junk that somebody is pushing to sell his book. Or they're just nut-jobs. They're out there, trust me.

Secondly, the fluoride in water is for the benefit of developing teeth in children, period. It does nothing for teeth that have already developed and are in function. The fluoride bonds to the developing hydroxyapatite structure making it harder and more resistant to decay once it erupts.

And, lastly, I am a libertarian at heart. I don't want anyone messing with my food or water (or much of anything else for that matter!) However, given that there is ZERO real scientific evidence that fluoride in optimal concentrations in communal water supplies causes any side effects -- and we've had over 60 years to study the issue -- it's an addition I can live with.

I will never be able to convince the conspiracy theorist types that it's not a commie plot. I know that. However, know this: If there is ever any real evidence that there are side effects that outweigh the benefits of fluoride in water supplies, your dentist will be the first one demanding change!

I can't think of any profession that has worked as hard to put itself out of business as dentistry. Our sole task is to treat dental disease, primarily cavities and their consequences. Without cavities, we're out of work. And who has pushed the hardest to get fluoride in community water supplies, in toothpaste and applied topically? DENTISTS. Yeah, we're not real bright.

So, if you don't want fluoride in your city water, go for it. It only makes more business for your dentist.

 

[lucky4034]

As someone who is going to the dentist tomorrow morning to get another 4 cavities filled, I'm glad of the flouride in the water.

Explanation:
I get kidney stones if I don't drink highly acidic lemonade (Strange but true. My urologist told me to give it a shot, and by golly it works! way better than surgery). The acid ends up getting flushed out in my kidneys, where it eats away the stones. (Fun fact: it also makes my feet smell weird)

The downside is that it's been eating away my teeth too.

I now use prescription fluoride toothpaste (at 1.1% sodium flouride) to give my teeth a fighting chance in the war against lemonade.

Just my 2 cents: I happen to be a fan of fluoride.

Interesting... ever considered simply gulping down the lemonade then rinsing with water (and then brushing afterward)? That should tremendously remove the ability of the lemonade to affect your teeth. The acid will only affect your teeth while its in your mouth... Once its ingested, it doesn't effect your teeth at all, but will go to your kidneys and do what you claim.

This goes for any food for that matter.... Drinking a gallon of Mountain Dew in less than 2 minutes is much better for your teeth than sipping a 12oz can over 30 minutes because once the drink or food is out of the mouth, saliva will buffer out the acidity.... If you re-introduce the drink periodically, rather than all at once... then saliva will never get a chance to buffer out the drink and acid by product will continue

 

[SmileDocHill]

Aha! Finally, a topic on which I am qualified to comment.

Most of you have forgotten more about guns than I'll ever learn, but when it comes to teeth, I'm good to go.

First off, what passes as "scientific evidence" to the general public often is not. It's junk that somebody is pushing to sell his book. Or they're just nut-jobs. They're out there, trust me.

Secondly, the fluoride in water is for the benefit of developing teeth in children, period. It does nothing for teeth that have already developed and are in function. The fluoride bonds to the developing hydroxyapatite structure making it harder and more resistant to decay once it erupts.

And, lastly, I am a libertarian at heart. I don't want anyone messing with my food or water (or much of anything else for that matter!) However, given that there is ZERO real scientific evidence that fluoride in optimal concentrations in communal water supplies causes any side effects -- and we've had over 60 years to study the issue -- it's an addition I can live with.

I will never be able to convince the conspiracy theorist types that it's not a commie plot. I know that. However, know this: If there is ever any real evidence that there are side effects that outweigh the benefits of fluoride in water supplies, your dentist will be the first one demanding change!

I can't think of any profession that has worked as hard to put itself out of business as dentistry. Our sole task is to treat dental disease, primarily cavities and their consequences. Without cavities, we're out of work. And who has pushed the hardest to get fluoride in community water supplies, in toothpaste and applied topically? DENTISTS. Yeah, we're not real bright.

So, if you don't want fluoride in your city water, go for it. It only makes more business for your dentist.

Couldn't have said it better myself. In my opinion, the only real argument to be made is from a freedom of choice standpoint. The science behind the safety is pretty solid.

 

[ThrottleJockey]

Couldn't have said it better myself. In my opinion, the only real argument to be made is from a freedom of choice standpoint. The science behind the safety is pretty solid.

But what science is there behind or in front of the OTHER effects on adults when it is ingested? What does it do in my blood stream, my brain, my heart, my liver, my kidneys.....You cannot introduce a chemical into the body without it having some effect on the mind either positive or negative since the brains functions are merely chemical reactions.

 

[downzero]

It's a Communist conspiracy! They're contaminating our precious bodily fluids!

 

[N8RV]

But what science is there behind or in front of the OTHER effects on adults when it is ingested? What does it do in my blood stream, my brain, my heart, my liver, my kidneys.....You cannot introduce a chemical into the body without it having some effect on the mind either positive or negative since the brains functions are merely chemical reactions.

ThrottleJockey, I won't engage in a debate with you over the science. If you want to believe that there are as yet undocumented and unsubstantiated side effects on other organ systems, believe what you will. Perhaps you are right -- someday, someone may discover that Alzheimer's, MS, MD or autism is directly linked to fluoride in communal water supplies. However, that hasn't happened yet, even though it has been studied ad nauseum for over 60 years. Until then, however, it's only chasing phantoms.

Also, keep in mind that the effects of minute amounts of fluoride in drinking water are not cumulative, unlike some other elements or compounds. A little bit of arsenic each day, for example, builds up to lethal levels. Don't confuse the two.

Sometimes we just need to accept that we don't have all the answers. Sometimes we must trust the science we have and accept that we may learn new truth as scientific discovery unfolds in time. Asbestos was great stuff until it was discovered that it was a causative agent in asbestosis and mesothelioma. Nobody knew, but we know now.

What we know NOW is that teeth are made significantly more resistant to tooth decay with the ingestion of small amounts of fluoride. What we do NOT know now is if there are any long-term effects that may make us wish we'd never used it. Is that fear valid enough for society to accept a risk of some possible side effect over a known benefit? That's up to each community to decide, as it should be. We should just be thankful that the federal government hasn't (yet) made that mandate for "the good of the people."

So, it's your call. You can lose sleep over what MIGHT happen with fluoridation in the absence of scientific evidence, or you can enjoy the benefits of what we know WILL happen with decades of scientific fact.

Not much more I can add to the discussion, sorry.