Tippecanoe Co.'s MRAP

[Birds Away]

Curiouser and curiouser.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Wow, I get busy, don't check a thread for awhile, and almost missed the next Wallet thread.

I'll address a few last points despite the shark jumping.

I see a lot of arguing about cosmetics. If you remember, that's what the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban regulated, and the logic is the same. It looks scary, so it must be more dangerous than the non-scary looking but functionally equivalent item. If anyone said that about a rifle, INGO would cry "hoplophobe" and denounce the lack of logic in his position.

The fact it's mine resistant is irrelevant. It's being used as an armored car. Would you be so upset if it was an armored Suburban from the feds? The generals and other VIPS used to roll around in those, and other than limo tint and extra antenna they look like any other Suburban at a glance. Is the argument it's TOO capable of being bullet proof? The name is upsetting? Because it can also defeat mines it can't be used as a bullet shield? Most places would probably prefer one...but they didn't make eleventy-bajillion of those. They made eleventy-bajillion MRAPs. Unlike pushing them into the ocean like they did with armored vehicles after Korea, they've repurposed them to continue to save lives.

The "its not needed here" argument has been addressed multiple times. I've yet to need a fire extinguisher, but I have one. I do not believe that because I've never had a fire my home has a magic force that prevents them, especially when similar houses have burned. If the MRAP was being purchased outright for a few hundred thousand dollars then it'd be a different risk/reward equation. When you're talking the minimal cost of upkeep, I think that equation is a pretty easy one to make.

It's the Internet, people can claim to be whoever they want to be and can polish their resume as much as they want. There are lots of people who are "law enforcement officers" who are not cops. They shuffle papers, guard important people/places, etc. and really have no expertise in field operations. Few people want to stay in their lane, though. I don't tell jail deputies how to run a jail, white collar crimes detectives how to investigate bank fraud, etc. etc. because despite the fact we are all LEO I don't know anything about the specifics of their job. It's very easy to take a teaspoon of knowledge, or perceived knowledge, and believe you know more than you do.

Historically, the police are LESS "militarized" then they were a century ago. PD's had half track with mounted machineguns as "riot vehicles" in the early 1920's. We've survived as a nation without the police becoming an army. Yet the oddest thing is "if the police can't handle it, call in the national guard." So, if people trained in civilian law enforcement can't handle a situation, instead of "militarizing" them we call in the military. Military that meets and trains one weekend a month, probably in something other than law enforcement, and who if they have any experience was in Afghanistan or Iraq? And this makes sense?

I don't know what else to add, and given the shark jumping that has occurred here I'm not wading through the rest of it. If you have a legitimate question you think I can answer PM me.

 

[ATM]

That "Kid" is older than you know. Might not have acted it but he is.....

Age does not always bring wisdom; sometimes, age shows up to the party alone.

 

[rhino]

That "Kid" is older than you know. Might not have acted it but he is.....

I hope it's not anyone I know, because that would add to my disappointment. The individual on the other end of that keyboard has not conducted himself in a positive manner here and that reflects poorly on both him personally as well as any agency of which he is a member.

On the bright side, I was able to put my IGNORE list total even further out of reach of my challengers! To all who deign to eclipse my IGNORE list total: S*CK IT! BWA-HAHAHA!

 

[HoughMade]

That "Kid" is older than you know. Might not have acted it but he is.....

We're all told that age is a state of mind....I think there's some truth to that. For instance, I had the attitudes of a 40 year old at 17. Now at 44, I have some charateristics of a 14 year old, some of a 74 year old.

 

[Birds Away]

Wow, I get busy, don't check a thread for awhile, and almost missed the next Wallet thread.

I'll address a few last points despite the shark jumping.

I see a lot of arguing about cosmetics. If you remember, that's what the Clinton Assault Weapons Ban regulated, and the logic is the same. It looks scary, so it must be more dangerous than the non-scary looking but functionally equivalent item. If anyone said that about a rifle, INGO would cry "hoplophobe" and denounce the lack of logic in his position.

The fact it's mine resistant is irrelevant. It's being used as an armored car. Would you be so upset if it was an armored Suburban from the feds? The generals and other VIPS used to roll around in those, and other than limo tint and extra antenna they look like any other Suburban at a glance. Is the argument it's TOO capable of being bullet proof? The name is upsetting? Because it can also defeat mines it can't be used as a bullet shield? Most places would probably prefer one...but they didn't make eleventy-bajillion of those. They made eleventy-bajillion MRAPs. Unlike pushing them into the ocean like they did with armored vehicles after Korea, they've repurposed them to continue to save lives.

The "its not needed here" argument has been addressed multiple times. I've yet to need a fire extinguisher, but I have one. I do not believe that because I've never had a fire my home has a magic force that prevents them, especially when similar houses have burned. If the MRAP was being purchased outright for a few hundred thousand dollars then it'd be a different risk/reward equation. When you're talking the minimal cost of upkeep, I think that equation is a pretty easy one to make.

It's the Internet, people can claim to be whoever they want to be and can polish their resume as much as they want. There are lots of people who are "law enforcement officers" who are not cops. They shuffle papers, guard important people/places, etc. and really have no expertise in field operations. Few people want to stay in their lane, though. I don't tell jail deputies how to run a jail, white collar crimes detectives how to investigate bank fraud, etc. etc. because despite the fact we are all LEO I don't know anything about the specifics of their job. It's very easy to take a teaspoon of knowledge, or perceived knowledge, and believe you know more than you do.

Historically, the police are LESS "militarized" then they were a century ago. PD's had half track with mounted machineguns as "riot vehicles" in the early 1920's. We've survived as a nation without the police becoming an army. Yet the oddest thing is "if the police can't handle it, call in the national guard." So, if people trained in civilian law enforcement can't handle a situation, instead of "militarizing" them we call in the military. Military that meets and trains one weekend a month, probably in something other than law enforcement, and who if they have any experience was in Afghanistan or Iraq? And this makes sense?

I don't know what else to add, and given the shark jumping that has occurred here I'm not wading through the rest of it. If you have a legitimate question you think I can answer PM me.

I really couldn't care less about the vehicle itself. But, there is a cost associated with its operation. My question is: Is this the best bang for these bucks? Would you, as a serving Officer, prefer to have an MRAP on call or would you rather have that money put into your training account? Maybe that money could be put into the overtime fund or maybe they could pay another salary. Would you rather have the MRAP or another Officer on your shift to back you up? Yes, the vehicle is cool and does have a certain, very occasional, utility. Were you, a serving Officer, allowed to make a list of how you would want $ (whatever the annual operational and maintenance costs of the MRAP) spent where would an MRAP land on that list?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

We're all told that age is a state of mind....I think there's some truth to that. For instance, I had the attitudes of a 40 year old at 17. Now at 44, I have some charateristics of a 14 year old, some of a 74 year old.

If you're like me...the 14 year old stuff still revolves around women.

 

[HoughMade]

If you're like me...the 14 year old stuff still revolves around women.

Yes, but let's be clear (and not creepy)....the right 40 year old women can appeal to a 14 year old.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Would you be so upset if it was an armored Suburban from the feds?

Do the people of Tippecanoe County have to pay for it?

When you're talking the minimal cost of upkeep, I think that equation is a pretty easy one to make.

Great. Let's see that math. I'll take IMPD math over TCSD insults any day.

There are lots of people who are "law enforcement officers" who are not cops.

Sure, but his lie about me not ever being a LEO goes to his credibility. TCSD lied about that, what else are they lying about? Remember, TCSD has a horrific reputation for telling the truth. Deputies have gone down for Perjury here.

Who is to say that they are telling the truth about their "need" for this MRAP?

Historically, the police are LESS "militarized" then they were a century ago.

I could care less if they want to dress up. I am focused on the cost to the taxpayer. There is no risk here. There is only cost.

 

[cagilber]

West Lafayette has had one of these for awhile...you know...for those campus riots

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I'm actually amazed that the deputy didn't get the ban hammer for all his name calling. AMAZED. I kept looking for "Shooter" but he stayed "Plinker".

What a superiority complex he has. I can't imagine why he would even have a job dealing with the public. I'll bet he won't be doing it for very long. I feel sorry for the victim that costs him his job, and likely, his freedom.

WTH is up with these TC LEOs?

 

[HoughMade]

It's almost like someone's hold a grudge over one of Kirk's incisive cross-examinations, but that's just a guess.

 

[JollyMon]

It's almost like someone's hold a grudge over over of Kirk's incisive cross-examinations, but that's just a guess.

Thats my guess

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yes, but let's be clear (and not creepy)....the right 40 year old women can appeal to a 14 year old.

Heh! Absolutely.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

It's almost like someone's hold a grudge over one of Kirk's incisive cross-examinations, but that's just a guess.

I'm pretty impressed he was able to ID him.

 

[HoughMade]

Heh! Absolutely.

Did someone mention Julie Newmar? No? I thought I heard someone mention Julie Newmar.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

WTH is up with these TC LEOs?

Meh, they do a thankless job but they've always had departmental inferiority complex especially when you have counties like Boone tooling around in armored cars and all TCSD has is the SWAT bread van. Everyone wants to sit at the cool kids' table and an MRAP is a way to sit at the cool kids' table, that is why they are so . . . vigorous in defense of the MRAP.

By asking questions, I am questioning their inner worth. I can go all Jungian on ya if you want.

 

[HoughMade]

Meh, they do a thankless job but they've always had departmental inferiority complex especially when you have counties like Boone tooling around in armored cars and all TCSD has is the SWAT bread van.

I will not sit by and listen to the SWAT bread van being denigrated.

Steve Forrest? Robert Urich? No, the SWAT bread van is a tradition!

[video=youtube;_o0U_0WBSPU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_o0U_0WBSPU[/video]

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I will not sit by and listen to the SWAT bread van being denigrated.

*kicks rocks*

Fine, I'll just go back to asking questions about the Tippecanoe Tank.

So, where's that math on the risk/cost analysis I have been asking for?

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

I want to see Officer Snarky dive through a window like that. COOL!