To Assist or Not Assist?

[Brad69]

The AR, AK, FAL, G3 so on are made to work in conditions that most rifles will never see.
That being said attend a Carbine course you might need that FA by the end of the day. You probably get to see a few AR’s “mortared”.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Older thread on the topic, but some good info: https://www.indianagunowners.com/threads/forward-assist-do-you-need-it-why.439477/

 

[INP8riot]

I got to have that tactical dongle!

 

[freekforge]

Gotta ask my friend, what is the reason for this so called urban prone shooting?

Get behind crappy cover as much as possible. Our instructors really pushed a scrunched up urban prone behind the wheels of our cars.

 

[red_zr24x4]

Better to have and not need than to need and not have

 

[EricG]

Better to have and not need than to need and not have

That would be that "thumb" groove in the carrier.

 

[cavallo]

Aw snap..fixed!!

I don't have an AR but I have bacon. Now I have a voting option.

 

[Sigblitz]

This is my take on what made the m16 a total junk box to go to war with. I don't have any internet research to link but I did stay at a Holiday Inn last night. And this is the internet.

First, the barrel throat wasn't chrome lined and stuck cartridges were common.
Second, the army used Olin ammunition exclusively and the m16 was developed with Remington. Olin had ball powder, Remington had stick powder. Olin burned faster, had a little more punch, and a little faster rate of fire. Remington burned longer, giving up some punch but the pressure lasted longer. It was also cleaner because of the longer burn. And cleaning kits weren't issued with the m16.
Guns are finicky with what they eat. And there's no free lunch.

Just my opinion. I don't write for How to Screw Up a War Weapon magazine.

 

[Sigblitz]

And that is why they added the forward assist. Btw, the bolt carrier was chrome before it was added, the forward assist was parkerized. Another step backwards IMO.

 

[Tombs]

The internet seems to believe it's unnecessary and that Stoner opposed it. Yet the first design of the AR10 included a forward assist. Remember, it was Jim Sullivan that did the AR15, downscaling Stoner's AR10, Stoner did not believe in the 5.56 cartridge.

If you haven't had a time with an AR15 where you need to tap the forward assist, you haven't gone long enough without cleaning it.

 

[Sigblitz]

Yet the first design of the AR10 included a forward assist.

3rd design for orders, produced in the Netherlands.
Holding down the charge handle would let you shove it home.

 

[Squid556]

All valid points above. Still stand by it doesn't NEED it, rather..... It can be useful.

But the system will work without it. Albeit differently and maybe slower. You just tap rack bang instead of pushing the FA.

I have both..... And I like both. I don't mind swinging both ways on this subject.

 

[Leo]

If the round does not feed, yank it out and let the next one chamber. The odds are, that the next round will be in better shape. Personally I will not use one. I have only seen a forward assist used a few times. All the times resulted in needing a cleaning rod down the muzzle and driving the stuck round back out.
Working at a public range exposes one to the extreme ends of firearms operation.

If you don't have time to clear and try another round, your REALLY don't have time to punch a stuck one out with the cleaning rod.

 

[Tombs]

If the round does not feed, yank it out and let the next one chamber. The odds are, that the next round will be in better shape. Personally I will not use one.

And if the problem isn't with the round but with dirt in the action? Opening the action without the exhaust gasses venting can be a significant gamble on whether you make matters worse or fix it.

On an external piston gun I would get these arguments, but due to the unique properties of the stoner system, there is something to be said for what that gas system can do in severe circumstances. If anything, some of the mud tests demonstrated on youtube should provide evidence this is not just a random thing, but something that is very real.

 

[Leo]

And if the problem isn't with the round but with dirt in the action? Opening the action without the exhaust gasses venting can be a significant gamble on whether you make matters worse or fix it.

On an external piston gun I would get these arguments, but due to the unique properties of the stoner system, there is something to be said for what that gas system can do in severe circumstances. If anything, some of the mud tests demonstrated on youtube should provide evidence this is not just a random thing, but something that is very real.

If we find ourselves in combat, I will not stop you. I'll be the old bearded guy with an M14. <grin>

 

[johntheplinker]

I vote needed. Why? In case you need to ride the bolt closed in a scenario where you need to be as quiet as possible. You will then need the forward assist to finish going fully into battery

This is why I use my FA. My primary coyote gun is an AR and the last thing I want is a lot of unnecessary noise when I get to a calling location.

 

[Creedmoor]

If we find ourselves in combat, I will not stop you. I'll be the old bearded guy with an M14. <grin>

Old bearded guy, when was the last time you humped your 10.7 lb with a loaded mag, service rifle?
Bipod, optics and a leather sling?

Another old gray haired guy.

 

[Creedmoor]

If the round does not feed, yank it out and let the next one chamber. The odds are, that the next round will be in better shape. Personally I will not use one. I have only seen a forward assist used a few times. All the times resulted in needing a cleaning rod down the muzzle and driving the stuck round back out.
Working at a public range exposes one to the extreme ends of firearms operation.

If you don't have time to clear and try another round, your REALLY don't have time to punch a stuck one out with the cleaning rod.

Well, I don't believe that FA was put on the rifle for use at the public range.

 

[Leo]

N

Old bearded guy, when was the last time you humped your 10.7 lb with a loaded mag, service rifle?
Bipod, optics and a leather sling?

Another old gray haired guy.

I have never used a bipod, no optics. Even my guitar weighs that much. I shot across the course with my Palma rifle many times over the years. It was 13.1 pounds. My M1a Supermatch with a composite stocks was not light either. I always liked a cotton web sling best for service or match rifle. I would run it backwards like a single point smallbore sling.
My A2 service rifle weights 13.8 and my 24 inch iron sight space gun weighs 13.7.

I walked 1300 miles last year on record after losing a month for a broken ankle. 1500 the year before. Right at 90 miles so far this month. How about you, my grey bearded brother? <grin>

 

[Ark]

It's not necessary...buuuuut I did have my butt legitimately saved by a forward assist at a match once so I see the value in limited circumstances like a very dirty gun or short stroking the charging handle.