To carry or not to carry

[chevyguy]

Ok so in out town we have the town park. Its a public park owned by the town. No where does it say anything about carrying a gun. My question is This park has softball fields right near the only entrance to the park. Our school doesn't have any softball fields on their property. So when they have a home game they go to the town park. Now if they are in full swing of things with a game going on (sorry couldn't resist) or school sanctioned practice is it legal to carry in the park, One may not be specifically meaning to go to the game, but just to visit the park or is it at that point considered school property. Also to my knowledge they don't pay the park for its use.

 

[actaeon277]

Well, you have found one of the unexplored "gray" areas.
You can not carry at a school (k-12) or school function.
But, what does that mean when you go to the park, and a school field trip shows up? Or your case.
People will tell you what they "think" it means.
But I don't know if there is an answer, till someone gets busted and goes to court.

 

[actaeon277]

Maybe someone can dig up the thread where we discussed this. I can't seem to find it.
Or, maybe Kirk will jump in.

 

[donnie1581]

I carried all last year at my nephews baseball games. No issues here at all.

 

[jwh20]

I carried all last year at my nephews baseball games. No issues here at all.

That doesn't mean it's "legal" under current Indiana statute. Here's the problem. Consider the possibility that something happened and you were justified in pulling your weapon and using it to protect your life. Say you ended up shooting a bad guy. Ok, so now they are going to say you were ILLEGALLY carrying a firearm at a "school function" and say you can't can't claim "justified" shooting since you were not being "legal" to start with.

Now you have a legal fight on your hands. You may be right, you may even win. But it's going to be a long and expensive process. I believe that the current IN statute is not only a violation of the 2A (not the SCOTUS opinion right now) but more importantly for IN, it's a violation of the Indiana Constitution.

Article 1 Section 32 simply says:

The people shall have a right to bear arms, for the defense of themselves and the State.

So how does the current Indiana law that says:

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

It's clear to me that IC 35-47-9-2 SPECIFICALLY infringes the Indiana Constitution since it PREVENTS me from doing what Section 32, having a right to bear arms for my own defense at a school function.

Of course this is one of those silly "double secret probation" laws that fake fool feel safe but in fact almost always do one thing. They TRAP otherwise lawful people in a "technicality" for doing something that is otherwise legal.

I've written (and continue to write) my Indiana legislators about getting this and similar IN Constitution violating laws repealed. Why is this law foolish? Of course we've already seen how creating "gun free zones" at schools just lets the criminals know that they are safe there. But the real reason is WE DON'T NEED LAWS THAT MAKE LEGAL ACTIVITIES ILLEGAL! PERIOD!

Anything undesirable you might do with a firearm at a school is ALREADY ILLEGAL! So what's the point of this law? Nothing!

 

[Hornett]

Since it's a school function, it becomes illegal, for you to carry to your nephews game.
You know it's a school function and it's officially sanctioned by the school.
IMHO if you are intentionally going to the game, it's illegal.
If you are enjoying the park, it's a gray area.

Anything undesirable you might do with a firearm at a school is ALREADY ILLEGAL! So what's the point of this law? Nothing!

This.
I am really becoming exhausted with politicians trying to make something MORE illegal than it already is.

 

[ModernGunner]

JMO, but knowing a bit about such things, in Indiana if one were forced to draw and fire justifiably, it wouldn't become 'unjustified' simply because carrying at that location was not considered 'legal'.

Yes, some dipstick Prosecutor MAY decide to file a charge of illegal carry, but the shooting would STILL be justified.

As far as the 'no carry' locations, I can't personally think of a single place where law-abiding LTCH holders should not be able to carry.

Of course, I'm the same '@zzhole' that refuses to attend ANY gun show that says I can't carry. The gun shops don't make me disarm, so WHY do I need to disarm when I go to some gun show?

 

[jwh20]

Since it's a school function, it becomes illegal, for you to carry to your nephews game.
You know it's a school function and it's officially sanctioned by the school.
IMHO if you are intentionally going to the game, it's illegal.
If you are enjoying the park, it's a gray area.

This.
I am really becoming exhausted with politicians trying to make something MORE illegal than it already is.

Same here. It's as if somehow if we make ENOUGH layers of law the criminals will finally get the picture. NOT!

 

[jbombelli]

I would argue that the softball field itself is under the control of the school for the duration of the game, and subject to the no-guns rule, but not the entire park.

 

[eldirector]

Same thing happens in Brownsburg. School sponsored teams quite frequently use the park(s) for practice. I also frequent the park(s) with my little girl. I am not attending any school function.

I do not flee in terror, and am happy to be a "test case" if it comes to that.

 

[cosermann]

But how is an individual supposed to "know" that the ball diamond is being used for a school function?

Example: Let's say someone is passing through from out of town and stops at the park to each a sack lunch. That person has no idea who the "tigers," or the "eagles," are. Could be city league, club sports, school, or whatever.

I'd like to see the statute scoped down to only recognizable school property.

(Well, I'd like to see the k-12 GFZs limited entirely, but I'll take whatever chipping away it it we can get.)

 

[Hornett]

Well cosermann, you just proved that it's a poorly written law.
Instead of fixing it, let's just drop the whole GFZ at school lunacy and go back to common sense.

 

[chevyguy]

Hmm.. a lot ot think about

 

[cmamath13]

Hmm.. a lot ot think about

That's what I was thinking! I guess you need to use your best judgment.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

IC 35-47-9-2
Possession of firearms on school property, at school function, or on school bus; felony
Sec. 2. A person who possesses a firearm:
(1) in or on school property;
(2) in or on property that is being used by a school for a school function; or
(3) on a school bus;
commits a Class D felony.

Lot's of grey area here...If the school function is the baseball game at the baseball facility on a public park, where are the boundaries of the property being used by the school? One might argue it is the ball diamond and spectator stands. But does this include the swing sets and monkey bars across the parking lot? Does it include the parking lot? Or does the property encompass the entire park property?

 

[92ThoStro]

We need an INGO cop to help us with some of these scenarios.
The volunteers on here carry, and the cop arrests them.
Hard part is getting the prosecutor on board

 

[chevyguy]

Yeah really gray thanks all