Told by FWPD illegal to OC in Indiana

[Spike_351]

I would have accused him of not doing his job by not arresting me and ask what kind of a crack pot officer is he for letting a citizen who was illegally carrying go, then once arrested call my lawyer and set up a massive lawsuit. It would have been a lot of trouble, but well worth it for the money.

 

[Bunnykid68]

The City of Fort Wayne is attempting to implement an illegal policy.

Consult with an attorney at once.

AS usual, I agree.

 

[DaddyFixSemi]

Contact an attorney first.

I've provided my suggested changes to your letter.

I like the revised changes as well.

 

[sartwell]

Let us know how it turns out.

 

[iamaclone45]

Here is how I would word and format this letter if it was me writing it. The underlined parts or sections that need clarification.

To whom it may concern,

My name is Travis ____ and am writing this letter to seek clarification on current gun laws in the State of Indiana and the city of Fort Wayne.

Today while eating lunch with my family, at the China Buffet near Getz Road and Jefferson Boulevard, I was approached by FWPD Officer ____. I was open carrying my handgun in a belt fastened holster. Officer ____ asked if I was an officer, to which I replied "No I am not".

Officer ______ informed me that he was an officer and that I was illegally carrying my firearm because it was not concealed.

I replied, stating that I believed I was not violating the law with my "open" carried handgun.

Officer ______ then asked for my permit (leave as "permit" if the officer called it a permit / change to LTCH if he called it LTCH), to which I provided my License to Carry Handgun. Officer _____ showed me his ID (being that he was not in uniform). He then asked me to step outside the restaurant to further discuss the matter.

We walked to his patrol car and Officer _____ once again insisted that open carrying a handgun was illegal. I informed him that I had researched my rights to carry and felt that I was not violating the law. He then asked to take possession of my handgun, to which i complied, while he made a phone call in his marked patrol car.

After approximately five minutes, he handed me his cell phone and requested that I speak to his Sergeant on the matter. I spoke to Sergeant ____ (spelling may be slightly incorrect on his last name).
Sergeant ______ informed me that I could be arrested for illegally carrying my handgun. He insisted that somewhere on my handgun permit (once again change to LTCH if he called it a LTCH, use permit if he called it a permit) it "should" say concealed carry. As you should know, the Indiana LTCH does not mention a specific type of carry (concealed or open).

I was released with a "warning" (specify written or verbal) and was told that if I had been arrested it could negatively effect my ability to hold a handgun permit in the future.

After our phone conversation ended, Officer ____ handed my handgun back to me and informed me that people can't just walk around carrying firearms out in the open.

I chose, at this time, to cover up my handgun with my polo shirt ( while leaving 2-3 inches of the gun exposed) and showed the Officer who stated that was fine with him.

I informed Officer _______ that I had recently walked around the Three Rivers festival which was being patrolled by several FWPD officers and had no incidents whatsoever. His reply was that of him not seeing me there and if he had things would have been different.

I would like to note that no time during my visit to the China Buffet or while speaking with the Officer was I outside of being calm and well mannered. I feel that Officer ______ was not polite about the topic we were discussing.

My questions to the City of Fort Wayne are:

Is a citizen who has an Indiana issued LTCH allowed to "open" carry a handgun?

Does it legally have to be concealed? The research I have done on the matter has shown the State of Indiana to be silent on the issue making either "open" or "concealed" carry within the definition of the laws.

I understand that any place of business can ask me to conceal my handgun or leave. I was not approached by restaurant management about this matter.

I pay attention to business signage to verify firearms are allowed, I am aware some have a sign that reads " No firearms allowed ". I honor those establishments wishes.

I was told by the two Officers that citizens get scared when they see guns and that's why nobody open carries. I should mention that no one patronizing the restaurant seemed alarm at my open carry of a handgun.

Once again, I am seeking clarification from the city of Fort Wayne on the laws regarding the Licensed carry of a handgun.

I am requesting documentation on any by-law suggesting that open carry within the city of Fort Wayne is illegal. If such a by-law exists, then I will comply with the regulations it sets forth.

Thank you for your time,
Travis _____

 

[hopcam]

After approximately five minutes, he handed me his cell phone and requested that I speak to his Sergeant on the matter. I spoke to Sergeant ____ (spelling may be slightly incorrect on his last name).

 

[CathyInBlue]

If there is such a bylaw obviously I will file a lawsuit against the city of Fort Wayne under IC 35-47-11.1 and retire to Boca on the proceeds I take from your city coffers.

FIFY

It's amazing how fast a person from Fort Wayne can give a person in Terre Haute a headache.

 

[long coat]

don't ask for clarification, send them the ISP url addressing this matter and IC 35-47-11.1-2. Tell them they need to (re)educate the officers involved.

And ask them if they want to settle out of court.

 

[T-DOGG]

Why'd you leave the officers names out we should know who the idiots are, I go to Ft Wayne quite often.

I don't feel that names are the important part, the incident is.

If it was illegal why didn't they arrest you?

Because he realized I was a calm and rational person. He probably expected me to go into a rampage and give him a different reason to arrest me.

1. You don't need quotations around, " I was well within my rights to open carry"

2. You have a license, not a permit. The officer called it a permit.

3. affect, not effect.

4. There should be an "a" before bylaw.

The City of Fort Wayne is attempting to implement an illegal policy.

Consult with an attorney at once.

After speaking with my wife and you folks I believe I will.

Am I the only one that saw the fact that the officer took his firearm??? Why did he take your firearm???

He probably thought I was going to start shooting people or go crazy. Who knows. Only reason I handed it to him was to show I was not a threat and was able to comply to his request. I did not want to make a huge scene. Keep in mind my wife and child are inside eating with a place full of people while I am outside handing over my handgun. It already looked bad on my end in the eyes of the uninformed.

 

[T-DOGG]

I have updated the letter with you folks recommendations and added a little of my own. Please re-read and let me know how it looks now. Thanks for all the input so far. After talking it over with my wife, I will be looking into getting an attorney. I do not like to be ridiculed in public, especially when I am being a legal beagle. Just to clarify, I will still OC after this. That much will not change.

 

[Rookie]

I would also change it to "in a holster securely fastened to my belt"

"He replied that, if he had seen me, things would have been different."

"I was calm and respectful, even though officer brown was not."

 

[The Bubba Effect]

I would speak to an attorney before I contacted the police. I would speak to an attorney before I made another post regarding this incident. If you are going to seek legal representation, you should do it before taking any more actions regarding this issue.

 

[BoilerWes]

I think the only letter that should be sent is one from your attorney. Otherwise a formal complaint should be filed. My two cents.

 

[rockhopper46038]

Since you are going to consult with an attorney, let him draft the letter for you. He will probably want to send his own communication and not convey (as yet) the details which you have put in there.

But the letter does look better.

 

[T-DOGG]

I would also change it to "in a holster securely fastened to my belt"

"He replied that, if he had seen me, things would have been different."

"I was calm and respectful, even though officer brown was not."

Thanks. I sometimes struggle with keeping a statement "simple".

 

[Ted]

Unfortunately, Fort Helmke won't change without the financial consequences of an unlawful arrest.

 

[88GT]

Cut out about half (or more!) of the details. They aren't necessary, bore the reader, and muddy the argument.

A play-by-play isn't really necessary. Not for the initial communications. And I would change your initial sentence to indicate that your purpose is to file a complaint, not school them on the law. No need to put them on the defensive before you even get started.

Simply say that you were rudely confronted by a FWPD officer who erroneously lectured you on the legalities of carrying a firearm. Furthermore, he confiscated your firearm (you didn't give it to him, did you?) without probable cause (as you had already provided your LTCH) and that he threatened illegal arrest for the act of "open carrying" a firearm.

If you have a specific request for resolution in mind (an apology from the officer, a review of handgun carry laws for all officers, etc), make it now. Then simply close with an open invitation to meet to discuss further if so desired.

You might ascertain whether a complaint needs to be filed on the appropriate paperwork as well. A personal letter is one thing, but it may not be enough to create/become part of a relevant paper trail.

I'm with mrjarrel on this one. But I'll go a step further and say they knew it wasn't illegal or they would have relished the act of slapping the bracelets on you if they thought they could get away with it. As it is, they got to save face by trotting out their authority and condescending to "let you off with a warning."

 

[CathyInBlue]

If any Indiana LEO comes at me with a claim that they can arrest me for not concealing, I'll simply calmly put down whatever I'm doing, put my wrists together, and offer them up to the officer with the words, "Then arrest me, if you have the courage of your convictions."

 

[littletommy]

Personally, I would have told the cop to arrest me, if it was against the law. Then I would proceed to sue everyone and their cousin. They were the ones trying to violate your rights, OP. File a complaint, don't send a letter to know nothings asking for clarification.

This is the route I would have taken, and I'm not armchair quarterbacking. If an idiot has a problem, he should put up or shut up.

 

[LPMan59]

what "damages" would you sue for?