Trans-Pacific Partnership (TPP)

[GodFearinGunTotin]

My employer is passing around a petition "to send a message to Congress and the Obama Administration that adding Japan to the TPP without addressing currency disciplines and Japan’s closed market will only lock in one-way trade that favors Japan"

This is the first I've heard about this trade agreement. So I'm doing a little research to bone up on it a little. So, to leverage the hive's knowledge--what do you all know about it?

 

[rambone]

This site has a few things to say about it.



No TPP | TPP Attacks US Constitution & Sovereignty

• Puts American Companies at a Competitive Disadvantage Foreign firms doing business in the U.S. will be exempt from the EPA and other regulations that will continue to strangle American-owned businesses.[1]
• Surrenders U.S. Sovereignty to UN and World Bank courts that will apply International Law to decide how U.S. tax dollars are spent. States will be forced to comply with globalist rulings on everything from land use to special privileges for foreign corporations.[2]
• Cedes 1/4 of the U.S. to Foreign Control 544 million acres of public land - a quarter of the entire U.S. land area – will be placed under foreign jurisdiction. UN and World Bank judges, not Americans, will decide how our public lands are used.[3]
• Bans Buy American Policies If you believe our tax dollars should be spent in America, not on goods made in China, too bad - TPP explicitly bans Buy American policies.[4]
• KILLS U.S. jobs and factories like NEW BALANCE in Maine. (See Video)
• Strangles Internet Privacy and Free Speech TPP rewrites the Global Rules of the Internet to protect Hollywood’s power brokers and gag the rest of us. If you liked SOPA, PIPA and ACTA, you’ll love TPP.[5]

 

[rambone]

Trans Pacific Partnership Agreement | Electronic Frontier Foundation

The Trans-Pacific Partnership: Global Corporate Coup, Assault on Democracy and National Sovereignty | Global Research

Towards Global Government:? Trans Pacific Partnership (TPP). Corporate Escape From Accountability | Global Research

 

[csnoski]

Everything I have read says this is a bad, bad idea. Cloaked in secrecy and all the stuff rambone says above. Rep Grayson recently got a peak at it....he is the only congressman to have read it. From Huffpo

Progressive Democrats in Congress are ramping up pressure on the Obama administration to release the text of Trans-Pacific Partnership, a secretive free trade agreement with 10 other nations, amid intensifying controversy over the administration's transparency record and its treatment of classified information.
The only publicly available information on the terms of the deal has come from leaks, some of which have alarmed public health experts, environmentalist groups and consumer advocates. According to a document leaked in the summer of 2012, the deal would allow corporations to directly challenge government laws and regulations in international courts.

Alan Grayson On Trans-Pacific Partnership: Obama Secrecy Hides 'Assault On Democratic Government'

ps:

"Having seen what I've seen, I would characterize this as a gross abrogation of American sovereignty," Grayson told HuffPost. "And I would further characterize it as a punch in the face to the middle class of America. I think that's fair to say from what I've seen so far. But I'm not allowed to tell you why!"

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Canada Claims It Will Back Out of TPP to Protect Its Sovereignty

 

[Leadeye]

Big money has spread a lot of dollars around in dc law firms to get this passed, so don't be surprised if it gets passed regardless. The dc machine moves wealth from those who don't pay to those that do, and the easiest way is to take a little from a lot and give it to a few. Whether it's in the form of higher electric rates, closed factories, or declining standard of living for large groups of Americans, it's always the same game. Just like any big city machine only on a world sized scale. Always follow the money.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Looks like the deal has been "agreed" on.

Trans-Pacific free trade deal agreed - BBC News

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/10/06/business/trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal-is-reached.html

 

[Twangbanger]

I just learned something amazing about TPP today: China will be allowed to join it later! WTF...this has been billed as the US and other nations "ganging up" against China, and creating a trade bloc to counter Chinese dominance.

Now - they're saying China will be allowed to join the organization...that was somehow designed to counter China?

Uh, yeah. This is just another dishonestly-advanced screw job for middle class people, as usual. And this time, they're just flat-out rubbing our noses in it by lying openly, and keeping the text secret. We had better be writing our Congresscritters about this (I'm sure my black, Muslim representative will be balls-out to break ranks on something Barack Obama really wants - yee-ah).

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I just learned something amazing about TPP today: China will be allowed to join it later! WTF...this has been billed as the US and other nations "ganging up" against China, and creating a trade bloc to counter Chinese dominance.

Now - they're saying China will be allowed to join the organization...that was somehow designed to counter China?

Uh, yeah. This is just another dishonestly-advanced screw job for middle class people, as usual. And this time, they're just flat-out rubbing our noses in it by lying openly, and keeping the text secret. We had better be writing our Congresscritters about this (I'm sure my black, Muslim representative will be balls-out to break ranks on something Barack Obama really wants - yee-ah).

So I haven't looked at this trade treaty at all, so I'll just ask. Is it an actual free trade agreement that prohibits tariffs? If so, does China still have the "anti-dumping" tariffs they put on US autos back in 2012 or so? If so, letting them in to a free trade agreement may help the US economy significantly. China is a big market, and exporting more durable goods would help us, no?

 

[Leadeye]

Tpp is whatever big money says it is, no more, no less. It's been bought and paid for with all the "negotiation" being between the representatives of the major players and I'm not talking about nations. The big winners are all the dc $1k per hour law firms where the meters have been running for 5 years.

 

[Twangbanger]

So I haven't looked at this trade treaty at all, so I'll just ask. Is it an actual free trade agreement that prohibits tariffs? If so, does China still have the "anti-dumping" tariffs they put on US autos back in 2012 or so? If so, letting them in to a free trade agreement may help the US economy significantly. China is a big market, and exporting more durable goods would help us, no?

It would in theory, but there are important reasons why that won't happen. Shanghai is the new Detroit. I worked in the Auto industry for 15 years, and American companies selling cars in China are largely building them there. For example, the Buick brand is really hot over there. I read a few years ago that GM sells more Buicks in China than they do America. But we're not exporting them; they're being built in China, in joint ventures between the "foreign" automaker and the Chinese government, where the Chinese gov't. owns a 51% stake (the usual deal western transplants had to agree to, to gain access to the Chinese market).

So I'm not optimistic about getting substantial auto exports to China out of this. China already got most of what they wanted under the "bad old rules:" they got a fully-developed domestic auto production infrastructure, with the latest technology, largely paid for by western investment, and which they "own" more or less in perpetuity. What took Detroit 70 years to build up with the sweat and ingenuity of generations of Americans, China "received" in less than 20 years. (Mexico + NAFTA, very similar). And they were manipulating currency the whole time they were doing it. It is now theirs to do with as they please. You can sure as hell bet their intention in doing this was not so they could someday import beaucoup automobiles from America. The Chinese were not stupid; they knew something like TPP would eventually spring from the minds of the globalist elites, and they wanted to make sure "they got theirs" before it all takes effect.

My understanding is that if ratified, after a few years, America will be looking at some pretty substantial "small pickup" imports coming in from places like Thailand and Vietnam, as one example. These are not big markets for us; they're basically just getting "their" chance to bend the American worker over the pool table. China was always the prize; and under the old rules, that prize got managed in such a way by China, Inc. as to ensure there would never be any significant export benefit to America from it.

Since the flow of vehicles is likely to be towards us, my hope would be that the new Asian tigers in this deal eventually build plants here and employ Americans, like the Koreans did (Kia / Hyundai), following the Japanese example. It is beneficial to build here and not face exchange-rate fluctuations and transport costs. But - the Kia + Hyundai examples did not take place under some new grand TPP scheme; those happy stories happened in the "bad old days," under bad old rules that still benefited America, somewhat. The first thing developing countries seem to want to do is develop a domestic auto production and exporting industry. Key word being, "exporting." The Asian tigers will exemplify this, and they have a lot more to gain from this than we do, from the perspective of the specific industry we're talking about. (I guess all the sons and daughters of those displaced American auto workers are supposed to go to California and program video games).

Again, since it's super-secret and us uncultured rubes won't be allowed to know what's in it until it's passed, we'll just have to trust in Obama's negotiating ability to get a good deal for America (cf. "Iran Nuclear Deal"). But I'm fairly certain that when China does enter into this arrangement, it will be when they're damned good and sure it's happening on timing and terms that are to China's benefit.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Hillary is now saying she's against the trade deal... trying to distance herself from Obama (however, those without short memories will note she supported it on 30+ occasions)

 

[BehindBlueI's]

It would in theory, but there are important reasons why that won't happen. Shanghai is the new Detroit. I worked in the Auto industry for 15 years, and American companies selling cars in China are largely building them there. For example, the Buick brand is really hot over there. I read a few years ago that GM sells more Buicks in China than they do America. But we're not exporting them; they're being built in China, in joint ventures between the "foreign" automaker and the Chinese government, where the Chinese gov't. owns a 51% stake (the usual deal western transplants had to agree to, to gain access to the Chinese market).

Well, that shoots that "pro" in the buttocks, then. Thanks for the info.

 

[MisterChester]

NAFTA killed American jobs. This will kill even more.

 

[2ADMNLOVER]

The way I see it , corporations have officially taken over America .

My understanding is that all but the most senior elected official weren't even allowed to see what's in it . Those that have seen it weren't allowed to take notes , video or speak about what they found out .

This "deal" gives up OUR national sovereignty for who's benefit ? CORPORATIONS .

I'm surprised "NOT" that it hasn't gotten much coverage and more folks don't even know anything about it .

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The way I see it , corporations have officially taken over America .

My understanding is that all but the most senior elected official weren't even allowed to see what's in it . Those that have seen it weren't allowed to take notes , video or speak about what they found out .

This "deal" gives up OUR national sovereignty for who's benefit ? CORPORATIONS .

I'm surprised "NOT" that it hasn't gotten much coverage and more folks don't even know anything about it .

Don't be bad mouthing corporations. You'll be deluged with "job creators" and "you're a socialist" before you take your next breath.

 

[Twangbanger]

Don't be bad mouthing corporations. You'll be deluged with "job creators" and "you're a socialist" before you take your next breath.

They are job creators. The problem with Congressmen, and probably Republicans in particular, is that they automatically assume the interests of everyone in the corporation are the same. The interests of employees and stockholders are assumed to be linked, and what is good for one, is good for the other. But we of course know, the world economy has increasingly created mechanisms allowing the interests of employees and stockholders to be separated from each other.

I've no interest in re-hashing the $15 min wage thread because that would be a thread-jack, but I mention this only to make a point about why these measures get approved. Congressmen don't hear from us about it. They hear all day long from corporate lobbyists that this-or-that proposal is a good thing, and is needed "for jobs," etc. In the absence of hearing anything from Main Street America, I suppose it's natural for them to assume we're on board with it, and what helps our employer, also helps us. Why would they think different, if they only hear one side?

Main Street America, for our part, seems to be obsessed with things like Gay Marriage and other 2,000 thread-post topics. So, we get deals like this one, while nobody is paying attention.

 

[MisterChester]

Final draft of TPP leaked:

https://wikileaks.org/tpp-ip3/WikiLeaks-TPP-IP-Chapter/WikiLeaks-TPP-IP-Chapter-051015.pdf

Any person who votes for this work is an anti-capitalist. Does nothing but kill jobs and competition.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Leaked docs reveal TPP will force ISPs to hand over copyright infringers’ identities

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Cato Institute endorses TPP.

Cato Trade Scholars Endorse the Trans-Pacific Partnership | Cato @ Liberty