Unbelievable! No wonder they're failing miserably...

[jennybird]

Was just talking to a lady here at work and couldn't believe my ears. She just purchased a brand new Ford Escape Limited in April of 2009. Although it was a 4-cylinder (to save on gas like everyone else) it was loaded. She special ordered it and had it decked out with all the bells and whistles. It was a fantastically gorgeous vehicle.

After driving it for about a month, it started shaking when in drive or reverse (didn't do it in park). She took it in to the dealer to have it checked out. They told her it was nothing and sent her on her way. The shimmy-shimmy-shake-shake continued to get worse. It got so bad that when she held her cellphone in her hand, she couldn't feel it vibrate when someone called her! Can you imagine? She took the vehicle in to Ford again. She made phone calls. She did everything in the book to get someone to fix her brand new (less than 1,000 miles) vehicle that was shaking and vibrating her to death.

Can you guess what the standard answer was from everyone she spoke to at Ford? "The vehicle operates in the manner in which it was designed." Although they admitted that it did shake just as she said (they told her it only happens with the I-4 engine), and that it was terribly unpleasant, they still refused to do anything about it.

After 2 more months of getting no where, she finally gave up. She took a loss on the vehicle and traded it in. She figured that if it shook like that and continued to get worse as it had been over the last couple of months, it would eventually start falling apart, making her loss even bigger.

She purchased a Mazda.

She tried adding comments to Ford's "customer review" section about her problem. Ford never posted it. It just magically disappeared.

So, my fellow INGO'ers... what say you? Is this type of customer service and lack of quality that is leading to the down-fall of the Big 3?

 

[Crimson]

Short answer of YES.

 

[DHolder]

I had the same proble with my Suburban, sounds like the rearend is ready to fall out when you stop. I take it back to Andy Mohr, they tell us "thats normal". This is a 30,000 dollar suv, not an old beater, I argue with everyone at the dealership, all the way up to the COO, no they wouldnt let me talk to Andy. They would get another vehicle, but it would do the same thing. I called GM, they told me in their engineering department, the problem was" an inherant design flaw". Nothing could be done. I'm glad they went broke. I hope Toyota comes out with something to haul a full size family.

 

[Bubba]

Absolutely yes. I purchased a Saturn coupe new in 2002. It has a manual transmission, and it does not synchronize first gear when it is cold. It has been grinding every winter since I bought it. Their excuse? First year, they couldn't find the problem (they drove it right after I dropped it off, so the transmission was warm). Second year, they claimed the floor mat was preventing the clutch pedal from going all the way down. Third year, they couldn't reproduce the problem. Never did get fixed.

Minor little electrical things go wrong. The auto rolldown function of the driver's side window stopped working at about 15k miles. The tech's answer? Sometimes you have to press the button a little harder. The button for the fog lamps doesn't work. Sometimes the lights are on, sometimes off. The techs claimed not to be able to reproduce the problem.

The car blew the engine at 56k miles of my 60k mile warranty. While cruising at 70mph on the interstate. On Christmas Eve. In rural Illinois. First the dealer claimed it wasn't a warranty issue, since he didn't find any oil in the engine. After providing the purchase receipt for the oil I had added at the last fillup, they agreed to fix the engine, and grudgingly admitted they had found a piston that had just cracked in half and that this was a reported issue. They took 6 weeks to do the job, but refused to give a loaner car for the first four weeks. During the repair they tried to get me to pay $900 to replace the clutch assembly, a $200 part and the engine was already out of the vehicle. Since I have gotten it back it leaks antifreeze and slowly burns oil. When I complained after my next oil change, I was told these were separate isses, and the vehicle was no longer in warranty.

I love GM vehicles, but GM service in my experience is a racket and a scam.

 

[antsi]

A lot of strange issues with cars can be traced to government regulations. The CAFE laws in particular mandate a lot of silliness. Hard, loud tires are one glaring example. Regarding the rough idle, I have noticed that a lot of new cars - whether US or foreign brands - are set to idle so slowly that they cannot idle smoothly. This is done to improve the city mileage rating. I have a new Honda that does the same thing.

Luxury brands that have no hope of meeting CAFE don't have this problem - they just build cars the way people want them and pass the cost of the CAFE penalties on to the car buyer. The only problem is this puts you in a niche market of very expensive cars.

By and large I do not believe the US automakers are stupid. They are operating within a very stupid legal and labor framework. In most cases, I think they have made the best decisions from among the options that are actually available to them.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

A lot of strange issues with cars can be traced to government regulations. The CAFE laws in particular mandate a lot of silliness. Hard, loud tires are one glaring example. Regarding the rough idle, I have noticed that a lot of new cars - whether US or foreign brands - are set to idle so slowly that they cannot idle smoothly. This is done to improve the city mileage rating. I have a new Honda that does the same thing.

Luxury brands that have no hope of meeting CAFE don't have this problem - they just build cars the way people want them and pass the cost of the CAFE penalties on to the car buyer. The only problem is this puts you in a niche market of very expensive cars.

By and large I do not believe the US automakers are stupid. They are operating within a very stupid legal and labor framework. In most cases, I think they have made the best decisions from among the options that are actually available to them.

I pretty well agree with these statements here. If it weren't for alot of the governmetn regulations the car makers wouldn't have to do some of the stuff that causes problems.

As for the escape I can tell you the issue there. The 2.3 duratec that was put in some models of focus, and is also in some Mazda 3's and 6's had a vibration dampener in the crankcase. It works well, but is also 18lbs of dead weight slowing down the revs of the motor. There is a kit out there for some of us performance minded people to be able to remove this to free up power and let the engine rev faster. But even without the dampener the vibration isn't that bad, I've got a friend with one and its still alot smoother than what you are describing.

As for the ford escape and rangers they do not come with this dampener in the 2.3. So they are not as smooth as the ones with it, or the V6. Frankly if she got her escape with the automatic or 4wd she has absolutely no advantages with going with the 2.3 over the 3.0 V6. As it will get near the same mileage as the V6 due to the fact that the V6 has more power to haul the weight and turn the extra weight of the driveline easier so it doesn't have to work as hard and use more fuel to do the same thing as the 4 cyl. I've seen many V6 owners get 26+ mpg and more on the highway, and close to that in town. Whereas the 4cyl may do better on the highway once up to cruising speed, it may be lower with in town driving.

I think she should of tried a different dealer and not just one. If you can't get one dealer to help you out, try another. When I worked at Wyant Ford, there were many times when people would take their vehicle somewhere else and not get help, then come to us. And we would at least try to fix their problem. I've driven the 4cyl escapes and rangers, and the vibration they may have stock is not nearly as bad as you are describing your friend having. To me it sounds like that dealer just didn't want to mess with it and she would of been better off trying somewhere else rather than trading it in.

 

[jtmarine1911]

A lot of strange issues with cars can be traced to government regulations. The CAFE laws in particular mandate a lot of silliness. Hard, loud tires are one glaring example. Regarding the rough idle, I have noticed that a lot of new cars - whether US or foreign brands - are set to idle so slowly that they cannot idle smoothly. This is done to improve the city mileage rating. I have a new Honda that does the same thing.

Luxury brands that have no hope of meeting CAFE don't have this problem - they just build cars the way people want them and pass the cost of the CAFE penalties on to the car buyer. The only problem is this puts you in a niche market of very expensive cars.

By and large I do not believe the US automakers are stupid. They are operating within a very stupid legal and labor framework. In most cases, I think they have made the best decisions from among the options that are actually available to them.

Negative, Negative! Not stupid in a certain aspect maybe.

It is all about COST REDUCTION! They make newer vehicles with cheaper parts and sell for more profit. I deal with this on a daily basis! It is cost reduction everything, cost reduction valves, cost reduction rings, etc. etc..

They build their vehicles, engines, transmissions, drive-train, etc. with cost reduction parts that cost less to produce and wear out before they should to sell more replacment parts and new vehicles.

Like I said, I deal with it on a DAILY basis. I am always at odds with a dozen or so engineers at a time because I beleive they should design an engine component for performance and longevity and not overly absurd cost reduction.

Another thing that affects product quality of a manufactures product is also their suppliers. I can't recall all the many times I have had a part fail on on of my engines because the parts supplier has made a cost reduction design change that effected the integrity of the component and didn't bother to tell us. This is one reason there are so many recalls with all the vehicle manufacturers these days and not just the Choking Big 3.

I'll never own an Import, and I keep my vehicle years in certain time frames to maximize dependability. I won't own a Cummins built after 2006 because of the EGR, personally seen to many bad things happen with ruptured EGR coolers, I won't own a Ford or Chevy built after 94 or either in 4x4 after about 88. I do still drive my little 91 Chevy Cavalier that I bought for $300 in 2005 with 182000mi on it, one month later the odometer quit working and I still average 110mi a day to work at an average of 50 weeks a year(27500mi a year) at 30+MPG. Only ever put a starter on it, a heat core, and in 08 I finally replaced the factory spark plugs, so tell me, why do I need to trade it with approx 300,000mi on it for an Import.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I'm with you ^^ on this one. I basically stick to older cars and trucks where they have better quality than alot of this newer stuff. For trucks dad likes the 93-97 F250-F350's due to the look, and the reliability over some of the newer ones. I've told him to not get any diesel newer than a 7.3. especially a 6.0. Myself I'm actually wanting to get an older truck without a bunch of electronic controls so its easier and cheaper to work on, while being generally more dependable. I'd love a 78-79 Fseries, or even up to an 86. As for cars, my 92 SHO has been dependable and started up almost every time except for one time needing a jumpstart after dad left my glovebox open, lol. It has problems, and has over 160k miles. But it keeps chugging along. While in some ways I'd like a new car, I just can't see myself buying one knowing what I know.

 

[jtmarine1911]

I pretty well agree with these statements here. If it weren't for alot of the governmetn regulations the car makers wouldn't have to do some of the stuff that causes problems.

As for the escape I can tell you the issue there. The 2.3 duratec that was put in some models of focus, and is also in some Mazda 3's and 6's had a vibration dampener in the crankcase. It works well, but is also 18lbs of dead weight slowing down the revs of the motor. There is a kit out there for some of us performance minded people to be able to remove this to free up power and let the engine rev faster. But even without the dampener the vibration isn't that bad, I've got a friend with one and its still alot smoother than what you are describing.

As for the ford escape and rangers they do not come with this dampener in the 2.3. So they are not as smooth as the ones with it, or the V6. Frankly if she got her escape with the automatic or 4wd she has absolutely no advantages with going with the 2.3 over the 3.0 V6. As it will get near the same mileage as the V6 due to the fact that the V6 has more power to haul the weight and turn the extra weight of the driveline easier so it doesn't have to work as hard and use more fuel to do the same thing as the 4 cyl. I've seen many V6 owners get 26+ mpg and more on the highway, and close to that in town. Whereas the 4cyl may do better on the highway once up to cruising speed, it may be lower with in town driving.

I think she should of tried a different dealer and not just one. If you can't get one dealer to help you out, try another. When I worked at Wyant Ford, there were many times when people would take their vehicle somewhere else and not get help, then come to us. And we would at least try to fix their problem. I've driven the 4cyl escapes and rangers, and the vibration they may have stock is not nearly as bad as you are describing your friend having. To me it sounds like that dealer just didn't want to mess with it and she would of been better off trying somewhere else rather than trading it in.

HEhehehe! I had a lady have a very bad experince with a Ford Escape once. When I worked for Barger Wrecker, I went to pick up an older lady that worked at the local Waffle and Steak out of the middle of the road one day because the vehicle had lost electrical power and stopped in the middle of the road. Well evidently the Escape's transmission selector is electronic and when the vehicle lost power( there was a bad short in the ECM) it went back in to the park setting, thank god she was in a 35MPH speed zone or it could have be really bad. It was a big PITA to load on the rollback because with no power there was no way to get it in to neutral. I felt bad for Eva but joked with her about that I would have loved to see the look on her face!

 

[U.S. Patriot]

When I was stationed in Hawaii I bought a brand new Dodge Dakota. Well after about 12,000 miles if the transmission was warm, and you put it in revers it would die. Took it to the dealership. They said it had two small dings in the secondary transmission color. They said I would have to pay for it. I said that has nothing to do with the problem I guarantee. So I called headquarters. They called the dealership. Took it back ,and they flow tested it. Well they hand to fix it on their own dime. Now this was back in 2004. My friend who is an engineer an Enkei will not buy an American car anymore. Cant say as I blame him. I have a 2006 Jeep Liberty. It has had three recals since I have owned it. Other then that no problems, but still. My next purchase will be a Toyota probably. Yes that's why the big three are failing. Lack of quality, with parts made in Mexico or Canada.

 

[jennybird]

I pretty well agree with these statements here. If it weren't for alot of the governmetn regulations the car makers wouldn't have to do some of the stuff that causes problems.

As for the escape I can tell you the issue there. The 2.3 duratec that was put in some models of focus, and is also in some Mazda 3's and 6's had a vibration dampener in the crankcase. It works well, but is also 18lbs of dead weight slowing down the revs of the motor. There is a kit out there for some of us performance minded people to be able to remove this to free up power and let the engine rev faster. But even without the dampener the vibration isn't that bad, I've got a friend with one and its still alot smoother than what you are describing.

As for the ford escape and rangers they do not come with this dampener in the 2.3. So they are not as smooth as the ones with it, or the V6. Frankly if she got her escape with the automatic or 4wd she has absolutely no advantages with going with the 2.3 over the 3.0 V6. As it will get near the same mileage as the V6 due to the fact that the V6 has more power to haul the weight and turn the extra weight of the driveline easier so it doesn't have to work as hard and use more fuel to do the same thing as the 4 cyl. I've seen many V6 owners get 26+ mpg and more on the highway, and close to that in town. Whereas the 4cyl may do better on the highway once up to cruising speed, it may be lower with in town driving.

I think she should of tried a different dealer and not just one. If you can't get one dealer to help you out, try another. When I worked at Wyant Ford, there were many times when people would take their vehicle somewhere else and not get help, then come to us. And we would at least try to fix their problem. I've driven the 4cyl escapes and rangers, and the vibration they may have stock is not nearly as bad as you are describing your friend having. To me it sounds like that dealer just didn't want to mess with it and she would of been better off trying somewhere else rather than trading it in.

I just got more info. She purchased the vehicle in Michigan (not sure why, didn't ask for details). She worked with a dealer here when the problem arose. (I'm not sure if I should be too specific on this forum so I won't mention the location... yet.) After getting the run-around here, the original dealer in Michigan eventually told her to drive it up there and he would take a look at it, but she was too disgusted at that point, and wasn't sure the vehicle could handle the trip.

She said the dealer here told her exactly what you said, that "other 4 cyl escapes on their lots weren't doing it". She pointed out to them that hers didn't either... at first. Over time the vibration gets worse. She owned the vehicle for a total of 3 months and it continuously worsened over time. So come on now, test driving a new one off your lot obviously isn't a good comparison. A couple of folks did finally admit to her that they were instructed by their mechanics to give her the "The vehicle operates in the manner in which it was designed" line. She heard this exact line so many times during her ordeal that it sounded like all the employees were ordered to rehearse it. She also called some corporate number and got the same thing from them.

There is only so much run-around a person can take. If they aren't willing to fix an obvious problem, why keep the vehicle when you know it's only going to get worse. Why should she have to go from dealer to dealer to dealer to get help? The car will only decrease in value over time and even more so if it is having problems (vibrating other parts loose). I wouldn't want to deal with a company who refused to remedy such an obviously messed up situation either. She felt it was best to cut her losses.

I do feel bad that another "bad" dealer is making business worse for you and the other guys out there trying to do things right. Maybe you should run him outta town!

And in all fairness, I do work with yet another lady who owns an Escape and doesn't have any problems with it... it's an earlier model though and a V6.

I own a Toyota (don't hate me). It's a 4cyl and has run beautifully for nearly 5 years and 70k miles so far without one single repair needed. Why can't the American engineers accomplish this? I've owned Ford's in the past, V6's and V8's and they were all bad bad bad. I'm not trying to be a pain, but it's just such a huge mystery to the rest of us.

 

[theweakerbrother]

On the opposite end of the spectrum, I received a new 1999 Chevy Cavalier. I drove it lightly for 3 years and literally about am month before the 3 year or 30k warranty expired, the transmission fell out of it. I was backing up out of a parking spot (around 22K) and heard a terrible noise. They fixed it. I dumped it off on my sister when I went to seminary. She drove it another few thousand miles and then the axle broke and the rear driver tire went flying on 25th street. I think it was the only new car my family has ever purchased. I know I wont ever buy a Chevy product and TRUST it. Notice that I didn't say I wouldn't buy their products... but certainly not new.

 

[hotfarmboy1]

I just got more info. She purchased the vehicle in Michigan (not sure why, didn't ask for details). She worked with a dealer here when the problem arose. (I'm not sure if I should be too specific on this forum so I won't mention the location... yet.) After getting the run-around here, the original dealer in Michigan eventually told her to drive it up there and he would take a look at it, but she was too disgusted at that point, and wasn't sure the vehicle could handle the trip.

She said the dealer here told her exactly what you said, that "other 4 cyl escapes on their lots weren't doing it". She pointed out to them that hers didn't either... at first. Over time the vibration gets worse. She owned the vehicle for a total of 3 months and it continuously worsened over time. So come on now, test driving a new one off your lot obviously isn't a good comparison. A couple of folks did finally admit to her that they were instructed by their mechanics to give her the "The vehicle operates in the manner in which it was designed" line. She heard this exact line so many times during her ordeal that it sounded like all the employees were ordered to rehearse it. She also called some corporate number and got the same thing from them.

There is only so much run-around a person can take. If they aren't willing to fix an obvious problem, why keep the vehicle when you know it's only going to get worse. Why should she have to go from dealer to dealer to dealer to get help? The car will only decrease in value over time and even more so if it is having problems (vibrating other parts loose). I wouldn't want to deal with a company who refused to remedy such an obviously messed up situation either. She felt it was best to cut her losses.

I do feel bad that another "bad" dealer is making business worse for you and the other guys out there trying to do things right. Maybe you should run him outta town!

And in all fairness, I do work with yet another lady who owns an Escape and doesn't have any problems with it... it's an earlier model though and a V6.

I own a Toyota (don't hate me). It's a 4cyl and has run beautifully for nearly 5 years and 70k miles so far without one single repair needed. Why can't the American engineers accomplish this? I've owned Ford's in the past, V6's and V8's and they were all bad bad bad. I'm not trying to be a pain, but it's just such a huge mystery to the rest of us.

If the dealer never really drove the vehicle to see how bad it is then yes they were a bad dealer. Could partly be due to the fact that she bought it somewhere else. Some dealers are like that esp if you are a regular customer but then go buy another car at another dealer without giving them the business. Then they won't even try to help you at all. Its sad that its this way, but its true. I know my old boss was guilty of doing this at times. But generally my service manager would make sure the customer and their vehicle was properly taken care of anyways. That's one reason people came to our service department. We did the best we could to keep our customers happy. At times it still wasn't enough, but those times we couldn't control that. If I had a dollar for every vehicle that came in that shop where a customer had a complaint about a vibration, and we had probs duplicating it or finding it, I'd have a nice chunk of change in the bank, lol. Fact was we didnt' have alot of the new diagnosis equipment other bigger dealers had, but we did the best we could with what we had. And once in a while even subcontracted the work out to other dealers that had the equipment if it was warranty. Either way we didnt' stop trying till we could get the problem fixed to the best of our abilities and equipment. Sadly not all dealers are like that. I'm sorry your friend had this bad experience with Ford. I still say if she had bought the V6 instead of the I4 she wouldn't of had the prob, the V6's run as smooth as butter unless they have a problem. I know its a pain to have to go dealer to dealer sometimes. But if you really like the vehicle, it may be worth it most of the time. But any brand is gonna have dealers like that, that won't put all they can into helping their customer. Its not just one brand, its all of them. So it doesn't matter what brand you switch to, there's still a chance of it happening anyways.

For the record, I bought my 2000 focus in 02 with 44k miles on the odo. And until I blew the differential out of the transmission (5 spd) from too much racing at the drag strip and autocross. I didn't have any major problems with that car. And this problem happened at 136k miles. And I beat that car almost daily, it took it and kept on rollin. It would be back together right now, but I've run into a couple issues, along with lack of time/help. Any brand you may find a lemon occasionally, but that doesn't mean that all their vehicles are bad.

 

[jennybird]

If the dealer never really drove the vehicle to see how bad it is then yes they were a bad dealer. Could partly be due to the fact that she bought it somewhere else. Some dealers are like that esp if you are a regular customer but then go buy another car at another dealer without giving them the business. Then they won't even try to help you at all. Its sad that its this way, but its true. I know my old boss was guilty of doing this at times. But generally my service manager would make sure the customer and their vehicle was properly taken care of anyways. That's one reason people came to our service department. We did the best we could to keep our customers happy. At times it still wasn't enough, but those times we couldn't control that. If I had a dollar for every vehicle that came in that shop where a customer had a complaint about a vibration, and we had probs duplicating it or finding it, I'd have a nice chunk of change in the bank, lol. Fact was we didnt' have alot of the new diagnosis equipment other bigger dealers had, but we did the best we could with what we had. And once in a while even subcontracted the work out to other dealers that had the equipment if it was warranty. Either way we didnt' stop trying till we could get the problem fixed to the best of our abilities and equipment. Sadly not all dealers are like that. I'm sorry your friend had this bad experience with Ford. I still say if she had bought the V6 instead of the I4 she wouldn't of had the prob, the V6's run as smooth as butter unless they have a problem. I know its a pain to have to go dealer to dealer sometimes. But if you really like the vehicle, it may be worth it most of the time. But any brand is gonna have dealers like that, that won't put all they can into helping their customer. Its not just one brand, its all of them. So it doesn't matter what brand you switch to, there's still a chance of it happening anyways.

For the record, I bought my 2000 focus in 02 with 44k miles on the odo. And until I blew the differential out of the transmission (5 spd) from too much racing at the drag strip and autocross. I didn't have any major problems with that car. And this problem happened at 136k miles. And I beat that car almost daily, it took it and kept on rollin. It would be back together right now, but I've run into a couple issues, along with lack of time/help. Any brand you may find a lemon occasionally, but that doesn't mean that all their vehicles are bad.

I gotta say, I appreciate your honesty. Isn't it horrible that people can be so spiteful (i.e. not helping someone cause they bought at another dealer).

Do you suppose things might improve if salespeople worked on salary as opposed to commission? Maybe if the dealerships worked more as a unit instead of making it a competition it would be perceived better by customers. (I mean ALL dealers, not just Ford) It works for Shane Co. They do a bang up business with fabulous customer satisfaction and they don't get commission. Their employees even seem truly happy! What would that do for the auto industry?

 

[jtmarine1911]

I own a Toyota (don't hate me). It's a 4cyl and has run beautifully for nearly 5 years and 70k miles so far without one single repair needed. Why can't the American engineers accomplish this? I've owned Ford's in the past, V6's and V8's and they were all bad bad bad. I'm not trying to be a pain, but it's just such a huge mystery to the rest of us.

American engineers can accomplish this, but it is the CEO's that hand down the marching orders that are filled with "we need to save money here, we need to save money there" while in the back of their heads going "that will mean a bigger bonus check for me Huuhhaaaaa". Happened this year, hundreds of people laid off, forced Personal Unpaid Time, supplies were reduced and work didn't happen because of the lack of supplies, but my company's CEO still got a bonus of over $200million.

And honestly, American engineers are few and far between anymore! All, not just the Big 3, are hiring more and more foreign engineers to work for them, over here on a work visa, rolling in American dollars just to move up the chain some more and then move back home, they are worse than the Mexicans. India, Saudi, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, German, Austrian, English, you name it and I see them on a daily basis. Some times I litereally have to find an interpretur to translate an engineer I am working for. Most of them are nice people but their downside is their Loyalty. Their loyalty makes it easier for the high ups to push the cost reduction agenda on them and then they follow through, and then you have the ones that just don't care.

 

[jennybird]

American engineers can accomplish this, but it is the CEO's that hand down the marching orders that are filled with "we need to save money here, we need to save money there" while in the back of their heads going "that will mean a bigger bonus check for me Huuhhaaaaa". Happened this year, hundreds of people laid off, forced Personal Unpaid Time, supplies were reduced and work didn't happen because of the lack of supplies, but my company's CEO still got a bonus of over $200million.

And honestly, American engineers are few and far between anymore! All, not just the Big 3, are hiring more and more foreign engineers to work for them, over here on a work visa, rolling in American dollars just to move up the chain some more and then move back home, they are worse than the Mexicans. India, Saudi, Chinese, Korean, Japanese, German, Austrian, English, you name it and I see them on a daily basis. Some times I litereally have to find an interpretur to translate an engineer I am working for. Most of them are nice people but their downside is their Loyalty. Their loyalty makes it easier for the high ups to push the cost reduction agenda on them and then they follow through, and then you have the ones that just don't care.

What really frightens me is that this is happening more and more in MANY of our major industries. IT for instance. Scary. Very scary.

 

[Griffeycom]

I loved my Toyota before I sold it and I love my Honda. I read these stories and wonder why people still buy these things GM and Ford calls motor vehicles. It can't be the "buy American" when Toyota and Honda offer so many jobs here in Indiana alone. But it is an "American" name I suppose.

 

[223 Gunner]

We've owned two Subaru's, fantastic cars with minimal problems and excellent service the few times that we did take them in. And was plesantly surprised with repair bills lower than what I have paid owning vehicles from the big 3.

 

[Joe Williams]

75,000 miles on a 2004 Hyundai Elantra GT.

NO issues. No warranty service. No MX bills aside from routine MX.

Leather seats, cruise, electric windows and mirrors, sport suspension, heated mirrors, fog lights, tilt steering, fancy dancy stereo, fancy dancy alloy wheels. 10 year, 100,000 mile warranty.

<$16K.

Doesn't get a lot better than that!

 

[antsi]

It is all about COST REDUCTION! They make newer vehicles with cheaper parts and sell for more profit.

I agree about the cost-cutting, but it's not about profit. The Detroit automakers haven't been turning profits lately. Of course every business wants to cut costs, but why would the Detroit 3 be cutting costs more extremely than other auto makers - sometimes to the point of compromising quality? Again, I would say it is largely attributable to the legal/regulatory/labor environment they are operating in. GM employs about 90,000 people, but they're paying the health care for nearly 1 million people. The price of a new GM car includes about $2500 in health benefits for employees and former employees. For a Toyota, that number is more like $70. GM and the other Detroit automakers are operating in an environment where the competition has a $2400 head start on every car they make. Under those conditions, they are going to have to cut costs somewhere to make up the difference, because the buyer sure isn't going to pay a $2400 penalty just for the pride of owning a GM product.