Uspsa cheating issue

[rvb]

Those doodie project guys are ruining the sport. You can't listen to them. Paul Hendrix never crushed a beer can with a trophy, and he's veteran police officer. Who are we to believe? An upstanding LEO, or those potty mouth hyenas with no decorum?

The crickets on enos is damning enough!
Usually I'm very much the type to say we need to hold off the lynching until we know for sure what's going on, but, damn, that's a lot of independant evidence that's been hanging out there for years, and we probably have the Shot Coach app to thank for bringing this to light. That app has always been dead on for me... w/in .01s if I'm careful where I set the markers.

As RO's, we can expect folks (esp at majors) to start asking to see their time on the timer ...

I hope USPSA comes down hard and publicly. I don't care if they don't use his name, but a swift kick in the nuts needs to be reported on their homepage and in Front Sight.

-rvb

 

[CB45]

I will be asking at majors.

 

[rvb]

I will be asking at majors.

[rvb gets out sharpie to change that 16.xx to an 18,xx]....

-rvb

 

[Rob377]

[rvb gets out sharpie to change that 16.xx to an 18,xx]....

-rvb

or just give the timer a quick flick.

 

[rvb]

or just give the timer a quick flick.

writing on my timer with a sharpie is more funnier

 

[ModernGunner]

I was at a carbine match where we shot from 100yds. The RO instruction included the safety disclaimer that if you are not confident that you can shoot safely (keep the rounds from going over the berm) at this range you can shoot this stage from the 50...

Well, then the hard & fast rule should be, "if you are not confident that you can shoot safely (keep the rounds from going over the berm) at this range", you can not shoot that stage, and you 'lose' that stage completely.

Watched a few of the YouTube videos linked by the poster on Doodie Project. Wow, they're using 'race' gun / rigs to shoot THAT course? That's pretty sad.

Oh well, it's their game, they can play it however they want. If they're outright cheating or 'gaming' (which apparently is 'okay') then it's NO indicator whatsoever of shooting proficiency.

LOL, it's your lie, tell it however ya like!

 

[Coach]

I will be asking at majors.

It is the handful of the other 300 plus shooters at a major that could still cheat and in the process cheat everyone in the division. The point of having an RO designated at a major is that he/she can be trusted and is there to provide a level playing field. If it has been proven then that person should be out of USPSA for life.

 

[Rob377]

Well, then the hard & fast rule should be, "if you are not confident that you can shoot safely (keep the rounds from going over the berm) at this range", you can not shoot that stage, and you 'lose' that stage completely.


Watched a few of the YouTube videos linked by the poster on Doodie Project. Wow, they're using 'race' gun / rigs to shoot THAT course? That's pretty sad.


Oh well, it's their game, they can play it however they want. If they're outright cheating or 'gaming' (which apparently is 'okay') then it's NO indicator whatsoever of shooting proficiency.


LOL, it's your lie, tell it however ya like!

It sounds like you're really good at shooting. You should show those no proficiency gamers how to really shoot.

 

[rvb]

Can you believe the drivers at the indy 500 use those fancy high-tech cars to go around a simple oval course? they must suck at driving to need that kind of rig for THAT track. that's pretty sad.

come show us how it's done

-rvb

 

[Jesse Tischauser]

I'm going to start ROing myself. Wait I don't trust me either.

 

[rvb]

I'm going to start ROing myself. Wait I don't trust me either.

Makes getting some RO interference easier if the stage isn't going your way***

-rvb

 

[ModernGunner]

Can you believe the drivers at the indy 500 use those fancy high-tech cars to go around a simple oval course? they must suck at driving to need that kind of rig for THAT track. that's pretty sad.

come show us how it's done

-rvb

IF I can come do that competing against YOU, and win, do I get ALL your firearms and related accessories & gear, and you'll never compete again, never carry or handle a firearm ever again, and commit that to writing so suit may be brought against you for failing to adhere to the agreement? 'Cause we already know, by this thread, that cheating and 'gaming' occur with some regularity among these competitors, LOL.

Then, I might be interested!

In the mean time, there's been some pretty good shooters that have shot pretty good times on that (or very similar) course with a duty rig and stock handgun.

 

[jakemartens]

I am out of town in meetings I St Louis and have been following this this and was informed about it because I shot the SC Sectional against the one shooter that seems to have benefited from it the most (another m class limited shooter)
The ro, Paul Hendrix, did not ro me. (my Match sucked all because of me)
These discrepancies seem to have taken place over a period of years at several major matches in the south east, va/md Section, area 6, georgia Section and SC Section.
The BoD is aware and they are reviewing the information and the videos in question. Someone went thru and were able to show a pattern of this behavior, shaving times off one specific shooter and adding times to others by using shot coach app.
The BoD and NROI have a process to follow, there is a form that can be filled out and submitted back to NROI for review. As I understand this is happening now from several people effected. Apparently these two, or maybe a few more, were squadded together on staff days and took turns running the timer for each other. And then during the competitor days Paul would add time to others shooters, and not in the same division, apparently just because.

This is a pretty big black eye on things, brings a lot of things to light. It also appears that they may have went back into practiscore and adjusted their times and hits, that system has a log of this.
No one knows their reasons behind this, and so far Paul Hendrix denial has been "he reports the time on other timer", but there has been response forum or fb response from Rob jesee and he has blocked comments on his YouTube page.
You can make speculations, there has been cash paybacks, prize tables, state championship won, and STI contingency money awarded.
I have asked if NROI has suspended these two from being gone range officers as they review this, however there has been no answer. It has been pointed it out these two are scheduled to work area 8, I do not know what they are doing about about that.

 

[Rob377]

IF I can come do that competing against YOU, and win, do I get ALL your firearms and related accessories & gear, and you'll never compete again, never carry or handle a firearm ever again, and commit that to writing so suit may be brought against you for failing to adhere to the agreement? 'Cause we already know, by this thread, that cheating and 'gaming' occur with some regularity among these competitors, LOL.

Then, I might be interested!

In the mean time, there's been some pretty good shooters that have shot pretty good times on that (or very similar) course with a duty rig and stock handgun.

Are you going to give up all your guns if you lose? As good a shooter as you must be, it should be an easy win right?

 

[Coach]

IF I can come do that competing against YOU, and win, do I get ALL your firearms and related accessories & gear, and you'll never compete again, never carry or handle a firearm ever again, and commit that to writing so suit may be brought against you for failing to adhere to the agreement? 'Cause we already know, by this thread, that cheating and 'gaming' occur with some regularity among these competitors, LOL.

Then, I might be interested!

In the mean time, there's been some pretty good shooters that have shot pretty good times on that (or very similar) course with a duty rig and stock handgun.

USPSA allows the shooter to solve the problem of the stage as they see fit. This is done within the rules and is what draws many people to this sport. It is called freestyle. The rules are there to keep a level playing field. The gear is divided up into division and the high tech gear is competing against other high tech gear. This is the foundation of this game.

Lying about times is cheating plain and simple and this seems to be an isolated but grievous situation. I hope the offending parties are booted out of the organization for life. There is no room for dishonesty.

 

[rvb]

Cause we already know, by this thread, that cheating and 'gaming' occur with some regularity among these competitors,

No, cheating is not a regular thing, that's why this issue is such a big deal. It's a very rare thing.

In the mean time, there's been some pretty good shooters that have shot pretty good times on that (or very similar) course with a duty rig and stock handgun.

I'm using a G34, nothing too racy about that. I'm shooting "production" division (10-rounds max in the mags, minor scoring). We'll go by combined results so you can shoot any division or power factor you want. Give you my gun collection and yada yada? funny... but if you beat me I'll pay your local match entry fee ($20). hows that? so all it will cost you is ammo. If I win, you start a thread in the tactics forum and list 3 things you learned from the match about your shooting abilities. Next match I'll be at for sure is on 7/20 (Fort Wayne). Probably be at one on 7/13 (Warsaw). Match announcements will be posted in this sub-forum.

I'm all about getting new folks to try out the sport... if a wager is what it takes to get you to try it out vs just talking trash, then ok. It's a lopsided bet, you got nothing to lose.

-rvb

 

[rvb]

I hope the offending parties are booted out of the organization for life. There is no room for dishonesty.

ditto

 

[rvb]

I have asked if NROI has suspended these two from being gone range officers as they review this, however there has been no answer. It has been pointed it out these two are scheduled to work area 8, I do not know what they are doing about about that.

Only shooters living under very big rocks wouldn't ask for a new RO if they were on the stage... the MD would be crazy to let them touch a timer or scoresheet, despite what NROI does....

-rvb

 

[jakemartens]

Only shooters living under very big rocks wouldn't ask for a new RO if they were on the stage... the MD would be crazy to let them touch a timer or scoresheet, despite what NROI does....

-rvb

I agree, however I believe that bod and NROI should start there right now while they investigate and review this for a decision.

 

[rvb]

oh I agree that would be the right message from NROI... I just don't see these guys running a timer or tablet for a while regardless...

-rvb