Venezuela Proceeds with Disarming Centers

[hooky]

Natural = Religion? News to me.

 

[rambone]

"Natural rights" at the very least implies a "higher order" of things. That starts to look very much like a religious topic.

Consider, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their __________ with certain unalienable rights....."

Hard to talk about natural rights without also talking about that other part. That other part is what gets INGO-tricky.

Its hard to talk about anything political without an understanding of natural rights.

 

[dusty88]

"Natural rights" at the very least implies a "higher order" of things. That starts to look very much like a religious topic.

Consider, "We hold these truths to be self evident, that all men are created equal, and endowed by their __________ with certain unalienable rights....."

Hard to talk about natural rights without also talking about that other part. That other part is what gets INGO-tricky.

Um.... no

"natural" doesn't imply "higher"
it implies the "rights of an individual"
If you are even remotely familiar with objectivism (ie Ayn Rand) then you know they are most definitely not religious and yet quite devoted to the rights of the individual

In fact I thought it was Rand who popularized the term "natual rights" ??

 

[hooky]

It was actually Hobbes and later Locke that popularized the term.

Locke's Political Philosophy (Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy)

Perhaps the most central concept in Locke's political philosophy is his theory of natural law and natural rights. The natural law concept existed long before Locke as a way of expressing the idea that there were certain moral truths that applied to all people, regardless of the particular place where they lived or the agreements they had made. The most important early contrast was between laws that were by nature, and thus generally applicable, and those that were conventional and operated only in those places where the particular convention had been established. This distinction is sometimes formulated as the difference between natural law and positive law.
Natural law is also distinct from divine law in that the latter, in the Christian tradition, normally referred to those laws that God had directly revealed through prophets and other inspired writers. Natural law can be discovered by reason alone and applies to all people, while divine law can be discovered only through God's special revelation and applies only to those to whom it is revealed and who God specifically indicates are to be bound.

To say that you can't speak of natural rights on an internet forum dedicated to exercising the natural right to keep and bear arms because it has religious overtones and you're not allowed to discuss religion is silly.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Natural = Religion? News to me.

Correct and we can't talk about it.

In fact I thought it was Rand who popularized the term "natual rights" ??

No, but we can't talk about it.

Kirk telling someone to go debate elsewhere. That's rich.

Pack your big trunk of butthurt and take it somewhere else.

Go get your own thread locked.

 

[T.Lex]

Um.... no

"natural" doesn't imply "higher"
it implies the "rights of an individual"
If you are even remotely familiar with objectivism (ie Ayn Rand) then you know they are most definitely not religious and yet quite devoted to the rights of the individual

In fact I thought it was Rand who popularized the term "natual rights" ??

I said "hard" not "impossible."

(BTW, over the last few days, INGO has dropped right into my wheelhouse in several relatively obscure areas: Irish political history, Russian vocabulary, and now Locke/Hobbes/Rand. Thank you INGO!)

It would be great if the idea of "rights" were entirely secular, and they superficially shuold be. But, when you get into the implementation of government, there is a crossover with divine law (or at least, a version of divine law that every individual gets to decipher on their own). "Natural rights" is like a talisman. "You can't take away my natural right, it is God-given." Boom, no more discussion.

Hey, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just expressing my observation about how these things go down.

 

[Kart29]

Why is it that how religion relates to political issues is prohibited at this forum, but being a rude, offensive, vulgar, and spiteful jerk goes on without repercussions?

Could it be that there is a connection?

 

[hooky]

I said "hard" not "impossible."

(BTW, over the last few days, INGO has dropped right into my wheelhouse in several relatively obscure areas: Irish political history, Russian vocabulary, and now Locke/Hobbes/Rand. Thank you INGO!)

It would be great if the idea of "rights" were entirely secular, and they superficially shuold be. But, when you get into the implementation of government, there is a crossover with divine law (or at least, a version of divine law that every individual gets to decipher on their own). "Natural rights" is like a talisman. "You can't take away my natural right, it is God-given." Boom, no more discussion.

Hey, I'm not saying it is right or wrong, just expressing my observation about how these things go down.

So you're saying there is a religious litmus test in the US for natural rights?

Why isn't the entire Forum - Legislation of the Second Amendment verboten?

 

[HoughMade]

...Pack your big trunk of butthurt and take it somewhere else.

Go get your own thread locked.

Why do you hate theoretical freedom?

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Why do you hate theoretical freedom?

Ugh, I deserve that.

Ok, let's review the score at halftime: Hough: 52, Freeman: 3.

 

[T.Lex]

Why is it that how religion relates to political issues is prohibited at this forum, but being a rude, offensive, vulgar, and spiteful jerk goes on without repercussions?

Welcome to the internet, enjoy your stay.

So you're saying there is a religious litmus test in the US for natural rights?

Only if someone makes up words and inserts them into my post.

I'm saying that it is difficult (but not impossible) to discuss natural rights without getting into the "nature" of "rights." If you read any amount of literature on the subject, you know that there is an almost inevitable reference to higher power or "creator." Yes, there are some authors that specifically avoid that, but even they tend to reference it in the negative.

ETA:

Why do you hate theoretical freedom?

haha

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HoughMade again.

 

[hooky]

I go back to earlier points then.

To say that you can't speak of natural rights on an internet forum dedicated to exercising the natural right to keep and bear arms because it has religious overtones and you're not allowed to discuss religion is silly.

Why isn't the entire Forum - Legislation of the Second Amendment verboten?

 

[Rookie]

Why is it that how religion relates to political issues is prohibited at this forum, but being a rude, offensive, vulgar, and spiteful jerk goes on without repercussions?

Because he's a lawyer?

 

[HoughMade]

Because he's a lawyer?

Not cool man, not cool.

 

[Rookie]

 

[drillsgt]

Nicolas Maduro...hhhmmmmm. Sounds like he'd fit right into NYC or Chicago. Better yet, how about DC??

There is an opening for Attorney General.

 

[T.Lex]

The country's about to fall into anarchy and the idiot is worrying about disarmament centers. Nice.

Figured I'd put this here.
How videos of supermarket raids show what life is like in Venezuela - BBC News

With a collapsing currency and the highest inflation rate in the world, shortages of basic products have become the norm in Venezuela over the last few years. The situation reached crisis point earlier this year when thousands posted pictures online of empty shelves - and now it seems to be getting even worse.

 

[DeadeyeChrista'sdad]

In fact I thought it was Rand who popularized the term "natual rights" ??

Best laugh I've had all day.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Without making a new venezuela thread...

Venezuela seizes Nestle, Pepsi warehouse as food shortages mount

Isn't Socialism awesome?

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Without making a new venezuela thread...

Venezuela seizes Nestle, Pepsi warehouse as food shortages mount

Isn't Socialism awesome?

Bernie Sanders ought to get down there and show them what they're doing it wrong.