Vortex Optics Question

[singlesix]

I made my living a while back, so I needn't peddle optics or any other thing to further it. This frees me to be objective in a way that relegates brand loyalty to curiosity.

His a Vortex dealer of course he has loyalty to the brand because he believes in the brand. I rather have someone who believes in and stands behind what he is selling than someone just in it for the money. I haven't bought anything from him because he turned my money away. I told him what scope I wanted and for what purpose and his answer was run what you have right now and save up and get what will really meet your needs.

 

[grunt soldier]

I know your trying to bait Alan into some type of dumb argument here but I think this is quite simple with anything you buy that is meant to last. I won't buy a product that doesn't hold it's value. what's the point. ROI on a scope is just that. If I buy a nice scope I know down the road even used I will be able to sell it and it will have held it's value. go buy a cheap scope and try to sell it down the road. it won't be worth anything. I have bought and sold a ton of high end scopes during my time from US Optics, Premier, Nightforce, vortex, and even aimpoints. every one of them that I ended up selling I got damn near what I paid for them. I didn't make any money but I got to use them a ton and still sold them for close to what I paid to begin with. That is a ROI for me. Try it with a cheap scope. your just waisting your money.

Those are all facts. This stuff is harder with someone who knows what they are doing.

I'm not wondering whether any given Leupold is better than any given Vortex, I already know those answers. I am wondering what 'investment' is being made and how the returns are calculated. It would not surprise me at all to find that people are buying riflescopes and laying them up in hopes their value increases, as opposed to actually taking them into the field and shooting them. That is the situation with a good many firearms and it follows that it has been or soon will be applied to scopes.

 

[Yeah]

I'm not trying to bait anyone. As you describe, ROI is a fairly straight forward calculation.

I have no interest in investing in riflescopes in hopes of financial gain, as you do. I expect to extract from then utility, which has value, and that is my 'point' when obtaining them, as opposed to gaining USD. Their value when I am done with them is not a consideration.

 

[chezuki]

Their value when I am done with them is not a consideration.

Then you sir, have a poor understanding of ROI.

 

[IndyGunworks]

an investment doesnt need to be in the stock market where you make money....


If you are spending your money you are "investing" in something. Vortex offers significantly better features and quality per dollar invested than the gold ring brand. It doesnt have to be about what its worth when you try to resell it.

You are trying to make a mountain out of a molehill and bait someone into an arguement. clearly he doesnt want to have that conversation because you are not giving off the vibe of wanting to have it to learn, you are giving off the vibe of wanting to argue because you can.

If you want to stick w/ leupies, then go ahead, but the wise person would buy a different brand.

 

[42769vette]

Just to clarify, when I say return on investment I mean the quality, features, warranty, etc you get for the dollar spent. You should always get more by spending more, but that's not always the case.

The reason I refuse to have this debate is I've had it countless times on this forum, other forums, gun shows, etc. I've been at it long enough to know you cant penetrate the mind of someone who is 100% convinced they know more than EVERY other person in the world. If your not in the debate to change someone's out look on things, then your in it for arrogance, and just to be honest, I don't have the time or energy for those "Internet expert" games, especially when there is nothing to be gained from it. If your convinced you know more about optics, and the optics market than I do then why debate it.

 

[jimmythang]

Buy a leupold....buy a vortex.....buy a us optics....etc.

Create a mutual fund of scopes and hedge yourself man!

 

[Yeah]

Then you sir, have a poor understanding of ROI.

My understanding of it is excellent actually. I don't buy scopes with any intention of selling them at a later date, thus a financial ROI cannot be calculated.

 

[Yeah]

If you are spending your money you are "investing" in something.

Me, I just buy a riflescope just like any other product that I need for a utilitarian purpose. I'm not going to "invest" in hamburger for lunch, I'm just going to buy one.

Vortex offers significantly better features and quality per dollar invested than the gold ring brand.

This statement at the brand level is an attempt to use ROI in place of brand loyalty. Point me to the model in the Vortex lineup that offers significantly better features and quality than Leupold's FX3 6x42 per dollar invested. Does it apply to other models in their lineups? Of course it does, because most of what Leupold makes is junk. Does Vortex compare favorably against other models from other brands, of course. Unfavorably? Of course.

If you want to stick w/ leupies, then go ahead, but the wise person would buy a different brand

I'll use them when they are the best option for whatever functional purpose is at hand and I won't when they aren't, because I've no "investment" to look after other than function.

 

[Yeah]

Just to clarify, when I say return on investment I mean the quality, features, warranty, etc you get for the dollar spent.

I just call that "this scope is better than that one because"...

You should always get more by spending more, but that's not always the case.

People spend money for all sorts of reasons. I know guys who smoke.

 

[Nevernoluck2]

I own Nikon,leupold,red field and vortex currently. They all work. They all have great ROI: I invest, I shoot and then I return with my kill.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Me, I just buy a riflescope just like any other product that I need for a utilitarian purpose. I'm not going to "invest" in hamburger for lunch, I'm just going to buy one.



This statement at the brand level is an attempt to use ROI in place of brand loyalty. Point me to the model in the Vortex lineup that offers significantly better features and quality than Leupold's FX3 6x42 per dollar invested. Does it apply to other models in their lineups? Of course it does, because most of what Leupold makes is junk. Does Vortex compare favorably against other models from other brands, of course. Unfavorably? Of course.



I'll use them when they are the best option for whatever functional purpose is at hand and I won't when they aren't, because I've no "investment" to look after other than function.

At this point, all i take from you is that you took an issue with the word "investment" and are unable to grasp that someone else uses the word in a manner that doesnt fit the way you view the word.

 

[Faine]

Hey Dross. Did you ever work around all the feedback and come up with a decision? I'm curious.

 

[Yeah]

At this point, all i take from you is that you took an issue with the word "investment" and are unable to grasp that someone else uses the word in a manner that doesnt fit the way you view the word.

Im in the enviable position of not being responsible for what you take or don't. An overbroad application of ROI that apparently can't be quantified might count as mere wordplay for some, but I'm not among them.

 

[IndyGunworks]

Thats where you and i differ.... I consider a scope an investment. you do not.

 

[Jerry45Acp]

So, what are your thoughts about Leupold quality? They have historically been regarded as a very high quality optic.

Asking a Vortex Dealer about his opinion of Leupold is like asking a Ford Dealer about the quality of Chevy.

 

[42769vette]

Asking a Vortex Dealer about his opinion of Leupold is like asking a Ford Dealer about the quality of Chevy.

Correct, but this one happens to be a Leupold dealer as well. I can order them just as quickly as Vortex.

 

[gregkl]

Asking a Vortex Dealer about his opinion of Leupold is like asking a Ford Dealer about the quality of Chevy.

I asked him because I am a customer of his and I trust his opinions on competitive products. Alan does not strike me as the type of person who would say anything that was not indeed factual. I have talked to him and read many of his posts where he has told people that "such and such" product will work for them.

He knows how good Vortex is and doesn't need to defend himself for building a business around a proven brand like Vortex. When you couple that with his knowledge of optics, mounts, what works for certain types of shooting, and the way he stands behind his sale, I have no doubt that his business will continue to grow and create a lot of satisfied customers and a good living for him.

A good businessman and salesman(of which Alan is both) knows his competition, and knows why the products he represents are better.

 

[Jerry45Acp]

I also hope Alan does well.