VX Nerve Gas

[Cameramonkey]

I heard Indiana had the largest national stockpile of VX.

Until they started incenerating it a couple years back.

Cache of Nerve Gas Destroyed in Indiana Town | PBS NewsHour

 

[KellyinAvon]

What I've read lately about the Kim Jong-nam hit was it was in binary form. First female applied the first half and second female the second, so only KJN was exposed to the VX (and the second attacker slightly because they applied the two compounds with bare hands)

VX as a binary, that's more frightening than, most frightening things.

 

[printcraft]

It comes in little green balls. I saw The Rock.

That was a training video wasn't it?

 

[rhino]

I heard Indiana had the largest national stockpile of VX.

Not anymore. The rendered it relatively inert with NaOH onsite at Newport and then shipped the products to an incinerator they built specifically for the project. Allegedly!

If they have any left, we mere mortals won't know about it unless something bad happens.

 

[actaeon277]

MOPP is just one less thing bubbleheads have to worry about

 

[Woobie]

MOPP is just one less thing bubbleheads have to worry about

It's sort of irrelevant when basically anything you do and everything around you can get you killed.

 

[MohawkSlim]

I've had an uptick in customers looking for gas masks. I'm sure this had something to do with it.

 

[actaeon277]

It's sort of irrelevant when basically anything you do and everything around you can get you killed.

And, instead of MOPP, as a Nuke I had to deal with anti-c's (pronounced anti-seas).
Anti-contamination clothing.

Doesn't stop the radiation. But stops contamination from getting on your skin or clothes.... hopefully.
Imagine wearing this in a Reactor Compartment that's still hot (temp, not rads), and having to wear a double suit, booties, gloves (taped on), hoodie, Mark 5 Clearview gas mask...
Ahh..
those were the days.

What the heck am I saying?
They sucked.
Great sea stories SUCK when they're happening.
Look at Indiana Jones.
Getting shot at by Nazis. Dragged behind a truck. Propeller blades.
Those things suck.

I've had an uptick in customers looking for gas masks. I'm sure this had something to do with it.

I'd have to check, but I thought nerve gas was skin permeable.

Chemical Warfare Causes, Symptoms, Treatment - Nerve Agents as Chemical Weapons - eMedicineHealth
The least volatile agent, VX, has the consistency of motor oil, which makes it 100-150 times more toxic than sarin when victims are exposed on their skin. A 10 mg dose applied to the skin may cause death in up to half of unprotected people. All nerve agents rapidly penetrate skin and clothing


Yup. I was right.
Yea Navy training.

 

[KellyinAvon]

I've had an uptick in customers looking for gas masks. I'm sure this had something to do with it.

Like a lot of he former GIs here on INGO (not the Run Silent, Run Deep-types , the rest of us) I've seen a lot looking through an M17 and an MCU-2P mask. The thought of chemical warfare scares the living hell out of me. Prepper shows where the whole family was wearing gas masks scared me too. What scares me the more? Atropine and 2-PAM Chloride auto-injectors. Death by a nerve agent is one of the few things worse than injecting yourself with those things.

The last 1500 I attended I remember seeing a lot of Russian gas masks and filters. I'd trust my life to an MCU-2P/M40 or even an M-17, not to any Russian-made crap.

 

[actaeon277]

Like a lot of he former GIs here on INGO (not the Run Silent, Run Deep-types , the rest of us) I've seen a lot looking through an M17 and an MCU-2P mask. The thought of chemical warfare scares the living hell out of me. Prepper shows where the whole family was wearing gas masks scared me too. What scares me the more? Atropine and 2-PAM Chloride auto-injectors. Death by a nerve agent is one of the few things worse than injecting yourself with those things.

The last 1500 I attended I remember seeing a lot of Russian gas masks and filters. I'd trust my life to an MCU-2P/M40 or even an M-17, not to any Russian-made crap.

I always loved that the autoinjector would kill you if you were mistaken, and it wasn't nerve gas.

 

[Chase515]

Growing up we were educated about vx gas in school. We were told to lock ourselves in side our homes and cover all window and door openings with plastic and also to cover all register vents inside the house and turn off the furnace/ac. If the Newport depot was ever struck the wind would carry it across parke county. My sister worked for the contractor who destroyed the vx. When they originally manufactured it if a spill occurred they would put a orange cone up next to it and keep on working. The facility is empty and was supposed to be sold back to the public, rumors say the military buried chemicals on the property and is unsafe for the public. There is a vermillion county redevelopment sign up in front of the depot but its still a ghost town. I would build a house in one of the bunkers or open up a ingo boat storage company.

 

[SnoopLoggyDog]

I spent a few hours in this facility, at Fort Lost in the Woods. The day I went through, we had to detect and decontaminate a couple different types of agents during our training certifications.

Nerve Agents are deployed as a liquid that can kill by contact with the skin or eyes. The vapors that off-gas from the liquid are extremely deadly and can be absorbed through the respiratory system, eyes and mucous membranes. Sarin is a unitary, G-Series non-persistent agent and will quickly off-gas. VX is either a unitary or binary V-Series agent and has the consistency of 40 wt motor oil. It will remain a contact and vapor hazard for a long time after deployment. VX is so toxic, that less than 1/2 drop in contact with a person, will kill in less than 30 minutes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nerve_agent

[video=vimeo;20865943]https://vimeo.com/20865943[/video]

'We Got The Nerve' - CBS News

A really good book about the history of Nerve Agents is War of Nerves.

Have also worn these for Radiological Response Exercises. In the Air Force we call them "banana suits". Now we use Tyvek suits, in Level C hazmat response configuration.

 

[jsharmon7]

I've been down there for several different schools, but not that one.

Back in about 2011 I worked at a hospital and went down there for HERT/HOT. About a year later I went back for HARM. Both times we ended the week going through Cobra Alley. I only miss the food and cheap beer...

 

[rhino]

Growing up we were educated about vx gas in school. We were told to lock ourselves in side our homes and cover all window and door openings with plastic and also to cover all register vents inside the house and turn off the furnace/ac. If the Newport depot was ever struck the wind would carry it across parke county. My sister worked for the contractor who destroyed the vx. When they originally manufactured it if a spill occurred they would put a orange cone up next to it and keep on working. The facility is empty and was supposed to be sold back to the public, rumors say the military buried chemicals on the property and is unsafe for the public. There is a vermillion county redevelopment sign up in front of the depot but its still a ghost town. I would build a house in one of the bunkers or open up a ingo boat storage company.

That's because it's not volatile. Don't get too close and you'll be okay.

What they taught you in school was not that appopriate to the actual threat of VX. Now, if they had a fire at Newport back then, then you might have some issues downwind.


I suspect the land and groundwater underneath it are probably fine, but I'd want to to take some samples and check them if I were buying. I do know that the EPA (or rather a contractor) was sampling there all the time. They were meticulous about checking and rechecking for soil contamination. VX is persistent, so if it were in the soil, it would remain a significant risk for while.

They also had some significant monitoring for intrusion by people of the grounds and perimeter when the facility was still active. People who tried to sneak in for deer hunting or whatever were not past the fence very long before they were met by some people with no sense of humor about trespassing.

 

[TheMachine]

This popped up on my youtube feed about VX, it's a great series of videos if you're interested in chemistry:

[video=youtube;62fPW-5TR-M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=62fPW-5TR-M[/video]

 

[daddyusmaximus]

Were you MOPP 2? That sucks unless it's cold out. MOPP 3 or 4 always sucks.

Well, depends on how cold it is out. I used to drive my M60A3 tank in MOPP 3 because the M25 mask kept my face warn in the West German winter.

Many years later I gave up the Army for the USAF. (went back Army after 4 years) As Disaster Preparedness, I gave chem/bio classes all the time. Went to the Army's Chemical school and was in a chamber with live VX. (yes, in MOPP 4) That stuff is deadly as hell, but that same persistancy that helps it last so long in the area also works against it. If you don't get it on your skin, it doesn't work. The boiling point is too high, and there is no real vapor threat. You could have a glass of it on your desk by the computer and you'd be fine. VX is used in movies all the time because of how scary it sounds, but it's more of an area denial tool like land mines. Won't hurt you if you don't touch it. Of course if you brush up against a wet leaf on a bush and get one drop on your skin, you die...

Scary would be something with the persistancy of VX and the vapor hazard of Sarin.

Real scary as all hell, maybe even more so than nukes, is bio weapons. (just got a chill) That crap will keep you up at night right after you first learn about it.

 

[whiskeytangofoxtrot]

The US stockpile is almost destroyed, we are constructing the last Chem demil stockpile site. I was there and pumped out the agent at Newport as well.

 

[Caleb]

Interesting conversation here....oddly enough I find all thing radioactive, poison, and toxin to be fascinating...

Didn't XV started out as a pesticide? Or was that agent orange?

 

[daddyusmaximus]

That was nerve gas in general. I believe Sarin was the first. It's what the nazis used in the gas chambers. VX wasn't synthesized until the 50s. Brits thought that one up.

 

[oldpink]

That was nerve gas in general. I believe Sarin was the first. It's what the nazis used in the gas chambers. VX wasn't synthesized until the 50s. Brits thought that one up.

I thought that the Nazis favored Zyklon B for that particular application, not Sarin.