Washington meets Mohammad: Stealing a page from the the original Moslem's book.

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  • IndyDave1776

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    Before the first IBTL is posted, let me remind you that Islam has three major components which are not readily divisible but are separate up to a certain extent in that it is a religion, a political/government system, and a social system. For my purposes, I am drawing on its political and governmental characteristics.

    One of the elements which encouraged mass conversion is the Jizyah--a special tax on non-Moslems levied for not believing/converting. Depending on the leader in charge of a given area at a given time, it could be anything from a sustainable tax that served to raise revenue while simultaneously reminding the dhimmis who were required to pay of their station in society, or it could be so onerous as to drive them into starvation. Again, where the tax fell within those two extremes depended entirely on the good nature or lack thereof of the ruler.

    Fast forward to the so-called Affordable Care Act. It would seem that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid stole a rather inventive (albeit oppressive) idea from Mohammed and repurposed it to drive people to convert to socialism in form of the tax included in the ACA as a penalty for not having health insurance or buying it from the .gov for a cost similar to the cost of the non-participant/unbeliever tax. Presumably, now that the Supreme Court has determined that the financial penalty for noncompliance is in fact a Constitutionally acceptable tax (in a similar way that it cleared the way for raiding the Social Security trust fund for general fund use by declaring that it was a tax and not a contractually-held investment [you will have to ask the lawyers, I am relying on what grandpa explained to me about events before my time but not appearing in history class]) we now have a punitive 'tax' which can be adjusted at the whim of Congress which will presumably serve as an effective vehicle to make converts to socialism at economic sword point.
     

    Phil502

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    I am still in awe that you can be taxed for something you don't do. Which like you said is the opposite of what we were used to, seems like they just lengthened the playing field quite a bit.
     

    PKendall317

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    Before the first IBTL is posted, let me remind you that Islam has three major components which are not readily divisible but are separate up to a certain extent in that it is a religion, a political/government system, and a social system. For my purposes, I am drawing on its political and governmental characteristics.

    One of the elements which encouraged mass conversion is the Jizyah--a special tax on non-Moslems levied for not believing/converting. Depending on the leader in charge of a given area at a given time, it could be anything from a sustainable tax that served to raise revenue while simultaneously reminding the dhimmis who were required to pay of their station in society, or it could be so onerous as to drive them into starvation. Again, where the tax fell within those two extremes depended entirely on the good nature or lack thereof of the ruler.

    Fast forward to the so-called Affordable Care Act. It would seem that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid stole a rather inventive (albeit oppressive) idea from Mohammed and repurposed it to drive people to convert to socialism in form of the tax included in the ACA as a penalty for not having health insurance or buying it from the .gov for a cost similar to the cost of the non-participant/unbeliever tax. Presumably, now that the Supreme Court has determined that the financial penalty for noncompliance is in fact a Constitutionally acceptable tax (in a similar way that it cleared the way for raiding the Social Security trust fund for general fund use by declaring that it was a tax and not a contractually-held investment [you will have to ask the lawyers, I am relying on what grandpa explained to me about events before my time but not appearing in history class]) we now have a punitive 'tax' which can be adjusted at the whim of Congress which will presumably serve as an effective vehicle to make converts to socialism at economic sword point.

    A very well thought out and interesting argument. I've never looked at it from this particular perspective before.
     

    findingZzero

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    Fast forward to the so-called Affordable Care Act. It would seem that Obama, Pelosi, and Reid stole a rather inventive (albeit oppressive) idea from Mohammed and repurposed it to drive people to convert to socialism in form of the tax included in the ACA as a penalty for not having health insurance or buying it from the .gov for a cost similar to the cost of the non-participant/unbeliever tax.

    Let's be fair, Obama stole it from Romney who stole it from the Heritage Foundation, all obvious socialists. Is it socialist when a tax break encourages something? I suspect the answer from a libertarian would be 'yes' w/o disagreement from me.
    Republicans used to be the party of 'individual responsibility.' The mandate put's its money where its mouth is.

    "We are all born libertarians and then mom makes us wear diapers."*

    * fZz's book of Phunny Phrases That Skewer Just a Bit
     

    IndyDave1776

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    Let's be fair, Obama stole it from Romney who stole it from the Heritage Foundation, all obvious socialists. Is it socialist when a tax break encourages something? I suspect the answer from a libertarian would be 'yes' w/o disagreement from me.
    Republicans used to be the party of 'individual responsibility.' The mandate put's its money where its mouth is.

    "We are all born libertarians and then mom makes us wear diapers."*

    * fZz's book of Phunny Phrases That Skewer Just a Bit

    1. I would argue that if a tax break can be given, then money has been being taken in taxes that shouldn't have been in the first place.

    2. Individual responsibility is either providing for yourself or facing the consequences, not having your money forcibly taken from you to provide for you on nanny.gov's terms.
     

    findingZzero

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    1. I would argue that if a tax break can be given, then money has been being taken in taxes that shouldn't have been in the first place.

    2. Individual responsibility is either providing for yourself or facing the consequences, not having your money forcibly taken from you to provide for you on nanny.gov's terms.

    I would like to disagree with you but I can't.
    Well I could, but I'm exhausted.:D Cheers
    p.s. if only things were that simple. Oops, shut up!
     

    $mooth

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    I am still in awe that you can be taxed for something you don't do. Which like you said is the opposite of what we were used to, seems like they just lengthened the playing field quite a bit.

    I don't know about Indiana, but in Virginia, if you choose not to have auto insurance (read: self-insured), you have to pay a tax to the state. Seems about the same.:dunno:
     

    Spot Me 2

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    I don't know about Indiana, but in Virginia, if you choose not to have auto insurance (read: self-insured), you have to pay a tax to the state. Seems about the same.:dunno:

    No at all. You can choose not to drive. No driving= no tax for driving. This is a tax for breathing air(read being alive). Buy this for taking a breath or pay the tax(read fine). See the difference?
     

    hornadylnl

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    No at all. You can choose not to drive. No driving= no tax for driving. This is a tax for breathing air(read being alive). Buy this for taking a breath or pay the tax(read fine). See the difference?

    And Americans wait until now to be outraged. Why bother now?
     

    Phil502

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    Why are you in awe , it happens ALL the time ?

    I'm not a "conventional" sports fan and other than for work , I'll NEVER go to the oil can for an event but I got taxed for it .

    OP , good analogy .

    We get taxed for public schools too.
    I see this as different it's more personal and a tax on personal choice pertaining to your being. Personally I would be afraid to go without insurance but I'm not 20 anymore.
     

    Blackhawk2001

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    And Americans wait until now to be outraged. Why bother now?

    Possibly because this time enough folks will get gouged in their wallets by this particular overreaching of the feds. And the length and breadth of this overreach may enlighten enough people so that when they get fed up they'll look more closely at whom they're electing in the future. And POSSIBLY even start holding them accountable in a meaningful way.
     

    PKendall317

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    Let's be fair, Obama stole it from Romney who stole it from the Heritage Foundation, all obvious socialists. Is it socialist when a tax break encourages something? I suspect the answer from a libertarian would be 'yes' w/o disagreement from me.
    Republicans used to be the party of 'individual responsibility.' The mandate put's its money where its mouth is.

    "We are all born libertarians and then mom makes us wear diapers."*

    * fZz's book of Phunny Phrases That Skewer Just a Bit

    What's your rationale for calling Romney a socialist? Of the three individuals/organizations you mentioned, Obama, Romney, and the Heritage Foundation, Romney doesn't seem to fit into the socialist camp very well.
     

    hornadylnl

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    Possibly because this time enough folks will get gouged in their wallets by this particular overreaching of the feds. And the length and breadth of this overreach may enlighten enough people so that when they get fed up they'll look more closely at whom they're electing in the future. And POSSIBLY even start holding them accountable in a meaningful way.

    And who exactly are people going to vote for that will change this? Romney? If a boat would hold 1000 gallons of water, and already had 900 gallons in it, what's another gallon that is obamacare? The boat is already sinking. Voting is like a teaspoon. Just as many are using their teaspoon to add water to the boat as are trying to remove water.

    I'm voting Romney. I know how much he hates government controlled healthcare. He says he's going to repeal obamacare and I believe him.
     
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