water

[BobDaniels]

My largest weak link in preps is water. We are out in the sticks and rely on a deep well. (roughly 250' deep with pump around 180', this is info from previous owner and has not been verified. Any thoughts on how it can be verified?) So when the power goes out so does our water with the exception of bottled drinking water.

I am currently looking to source a few 55 gallon food grade barrels and hand pump as a quick solution to increase water storage for an outage. The intended use is drinking, cooking, and cleaning. We have a small creek I can utilize for "flushing the toilet" via 5 gallon bucket. It's not ideal but will have to work. The creek is not ideal for potable water since we live in farm country and I am concerned about farm run-off. The water looks decent in the winter but not decent during summer months.

I do have a few ideas on dealing with my water situation but lack experience on which idea will work well and be cost efficient. The ideas I have include a large cistern that is filled either by a rain water system from a metal roof or using the existing well to fill the cistern periodically. My preferred method is rain water. From the cistern, I can tie into existing water lines from outdoor hydrants to pump water back to the house. My thought is a DC shallow well pump with a solar/battery system. With this system, I am not sure if I can use my existing pressure switch and well tank in the house or if I would need to setup a new pressure switch and tank near the cistern and pump. Freeze proofing the system will also be a must since the cistern will not be in the house. (most likely buried in the yard near the potential rain water system)

Anyother thought I have involves a good old fashioned wind mill. I like this idea since it seems like it would eliminate the need for a cistern. I have no idea if I can simply drop a windmill in place and replace my current deep well pump with a deep well pump from a windmill. It also seems I would be without water on a windless day, so maybe I would not be able to eliminate the cistern?

That said, I am looking to tap the vast knowledge base of INGO for any thoughts on my ideas and I am also open to other ideas. Right now I am looking for general ideas. If it comes down to brass tacks, I am happy to pay a consulting fee to someone with knowledge and not trying to sell me something.

Thank you!

 

[rhino]

In addition to your cistern, I think an elevated water tank for your well would be a good idea. You can pump to keep it filled, then you have gravity feed from the tank to use at your leisure.

 

[BobDaniels]

In addition to your cistern, I think an elevated water tank for your well would be a good idea. You can pump to keep it filled, then you have gravity feed from the tank to use at your leisure.

I'm all for it if you can convince my wife to let me install yet another tank in the yard!

I also wonder how I could keep it from freezing in the winter.

 

[churchmouse]

This has been discussed at length before and the solar pump is not up to the task. That what I got fro the info shared.

Living in the sticks would (IMHO) require a genny large enough to power you well pump and refrigerators at least.

Not sure a hand pump is going to lift 180'

 

[teddy12b]

I'm not in your shoes, my situation isn't quite as far out in the sticks.

1.) Have you tried talking your wife into a pond? I know there's a lot of expense in a large pond, and if your wife doesn't want one (mine doesn't) then what about finding a spot on your property and just starting digging to see if you can make a little puddle here and there? I'm not sure how much land you're on so I don't know if that's an option. On my land the water is very sandy so water goes right through the soil. I hand dug a big hole hoping it'd hold water, and now I just have a hole to avoid with my truck.

2.) Have you considered a pool? Above ground, below ground or whatever. I couldn't talk my wife into a pond, but she won't argue with a pool at all. It's not what I want, but it gets a big water supply in a very short walk.

3.) How far are you from this creek? I'm less than 400 yards from a river, so it's a short walk. Worst case scenario, buy some of these tough water containers (You are being redirected...) and a little pull behind cart like this https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Cart...d=1479247335&sr=8-2&keywords=pull+behind+cart. This options sucks, but you don't need gasoline or a lot of moving parts to make containers and a cart for you. Those water containers are tough and can be dropped, tossed, kicked over or whatever and they don't break. The cart saves your back. If you get to the point where you need serious water for survival for long term, then this will get you and your family all taken care of.

 

[GunsRCool]

One of my projects for spring will be insulated boxes to place food grade 55 gallon drums inside. I will then run my gutter downspouts into the barrels. I'm going to build them raised with a spigot coming directly out the bottom so no pump will be required. Still figuring out the screening system i will use on top of the barrels.

Aside from SHTF I think it will be a cool little project anyway.

 

[BobDaniels]

This has been discussed at length before and the solar pump is not up to the task. That what I got fro the info shared.

Living in the sticks would (IMHO) require a genny large enough to power you well pump and refrigerators at least.

Not sure a hand pump is going to lift 180'

Solar pump would be for a cistern buried in the yard and the hand pump is for the 55 gallon barrels. A genny would be a quick way to get water during an outage, which is part of what I am looking for. My end game is getting water without relying on the grid.

I'm not in your shoes, my situation isn't quite as far out in the sticks.

1.) Have you tried talking your wife into a pond? I know there's a lot of expense in a large pond, and if your wife doesn't want one (mine doesn't) then what about finding a spot on your property and just starting digging to see if you can make a little puddle here and there? I'm not sure how much land you're on so I don't know if that's an option. On my land the water is very sandy so water goes right through the soil. I hand dug a big hole hoping it'd hold water, and now I just have a hole to avoid with my truck.

2.) Have you considered a pool? Above ground, below ground or whatever. I couldn't talk my wife into a pond, but she won't argue with a pool at all. It's not what I want, but it gets a big water supply in a very short walk.

3.) How far are you from this creek? I'm less than 400 yards from a river, so it's a short walk. Worst case scenario, buy some of these tough water containers (You are being redirected...) and a little pull behind cart like this https://www.amazon.com/Gorilla-Cart...d=1479247335&sr=8-2&keywords=pull+behind+cart. This options sucks, but you don't need gasoline or a lot of moving parts to make containers and a cart for you. Those water containers are tough and can be dropped, tossed, kicked over or whatever and they don't break. The cart saves your back. If you get to the point where you need serious water for survival for long term, then this will get you and your family all taken care of.

I would LOVE a pond for water and fish and I have discussed until blue in the face. I think it would be perfect to dig a pond in the middle of the creek. Might be one of those things that gets done one day and just ask for forgiveness. No interest in a pool but would be a great source of water during warm months. The creek would be okay for flushing toilets but it's just got too much crap in it for anything else. I suppose in a teotwawki situation the run-off issues of the creek would correct its self.

One of my projects for spring will be insulated boxes to place food grade 55 gallon drums inside. I will then run my gutter downspouts into the barrels. I'm going to build them raised with a spigot coming directly out the bottom so no pump will be required. Still figuring out the screening system i will use on top of the barrels.

Aside from SHTF I think it will be a cool little project anyway.

I like the idea but would not want to do this off an asphalt shingle roof.

 

[GIJEW]

Solar pump would be for a cistern buried in the yard and the hand pump is for the 55 gallon barrels. A genny would be a quick way to get water during an outage, which is part of what I am looking for. My end game is getting water without relying on the grid.



I would LOVE a pond for water and fish and I have discussed until blue in the face. I think it would be perfect to dig a pond in the middle of the creek. Might be one of those things that gets done one day and just ask for forgiveness. No interest in a pool but would be a great source of water during warm months. The creek would be okay for flushing toilets but it's just got too much crap in it for anything else. I suppose in a teotwawki situation the run-off issues of the creek would correct its self.



I like the idea but would not want to do this off an asphalt shingle roof.

What is the issue with asphalt shingles?

 

[GunsRCool]

I am curious as well.
What would be the issue with an asphalt shingle roof?
I would think it would be fine as long as it's filtered.

 

[BobDaniels]

What is the issue with asphalt shingles?

I am curious as well.
What would be the issue with an asphalt shingle roof?
I would think it would be fine as long as it's filtered.

DISCLAIMER: This is my opinion and it's worth what you paid. :-)

Asphalt shingles are made of some nasty stuff and water leaches everything; I have no interest in putting it on my plants and no interest in putting it in my body. I know it can be filtered and treated, but I still don't trust it completely.

 

[Lex Concord]

My largest weak link in preps is water. We are out in the sticks and rely on a deep well. (roughly 250' deep with pump around 180', this is info from previous owner and has not been verified. Any thoughts on how it can be verified?)
Thank you!

You should see if it's in the DNR's Water Well Record Database

Even if your well is not in there, nearby wells will likely have similar well reports.

There are other sources online.

 

[CountryBoy19]

First off, not much is truly impossible, it's only a matter of how much effort, cost, and risk of failure you're willing to accept to achieve the goal.

Solar powered well is absolutely without a doubt possible, but the infrastructure to run it will be expensive. So expensive that you should consider going full-solar on your entire household. It's entirely possible to run large loads on solar, wind, virtually any power source, there just has to be enough power there, and that power costs money.

That being said, I think you can very easily set up a holding tank that has an aux. pump to your home. As a matter of fact, I'm learning about this type of setup right now; we purchased a home that has a slow-recovery well. It has a "buffer tank" that holds 2500 gallons. The main deep-water pump is on a timer and pumps into the tank to keep it full. The home water supply is fed from that tank using a 2nd pump and 2nd pressure tank. That second pump could very easily be a DC pump as it's not doing as much work as the deep-well pump that is lifting all the water to the surface.

 

[CountryBoy19]

You should see if it's in the DNR's Water Well Record Database

Even if your well is not in there, nearby wells will likely have similar well reports.

There are other sources online.

Wow, I didn't know that existed... after a great deal of consternation and pulling of teeth (no teeth were actually pulled the search engine just isn't very friendly) I was able to find what I believe is my well... drilled in 1964, says 200 feet deep although the previous homeowner told me it was 500 feet deep... The approximate location description and surface elevation appear correct though.

They tested it at .1 gpm for 8 hrs... that would mean 144 gallons per day. Not enough for irrigation but enough for the average home...

 

[Thor]

Any option to dig a pond? I have a 130' well but there's about 180 thousand gallons sitting in the back yard waiting to be filtered/boiled and used. It also provides the option of frogs/fishes/turtles/waterfowl for food.

 

[BobDaniels]

You should see if it's in the DNR's Water Well Record Database

Even if your well is not in there, nearby wells will likely have similar well reports.

There are other sources online.

Thank you! I did not find my well but did find a neighbor's. His seems to be 100' more shallow than mine.

First off, not much is truly impossible, it's only a matter of how much effort, cost, and risk of failure you're willing to accept to achieve the goal.

Solar powered well is absolutely without a doubt possible, but the infrastructure to run it will be expensive. So expensive that you should consider going full-solar on your entire household. It's entirely possible to run large loads on solar, wind, virtually any power source, there just has to be enough power there, and that power costs money.

That being said, I think you can very easily set up a holding tank that has an aux. pump to your home. As a matter of fact, I'm learning about this type of setup right now; we purchased a home that has a slow-recovery well. It has a "buffer tank" that holds 2500 gallons. The main deep-water pump is on a timer and pumps into the tank to keep it full. The home water supply is fed from that tank using a 2nd pump and 2nd pressure tank. That second pump could very easily be a DC pump as it's not doing as much work as the deep-well pump that is lifting all the water to the surface.

Anything can be done for a cost. ;-)

The holding tank/cistern is mostly what I have in mind. I don't see any reason why I could not have a dc well pump running off battery bank / solar pumping from a cistern to provide "normal" water pressure to the house. To me it seems the biggest expense will be the cistern since the plumbing is already in the ground; just need to find it and tie in. I would like to collect rain water off the barn roof or I could also fill the cistern from the well. (rain water being preferred since my well is VERY high in iron) This would also meet my end game of having water in the house without relying on grid power.

Any option to dig a pond? I have a 130' well but there's about 180 thousand gallons sitting in the back yard waiting to be filtered/boiled and used. It also provides the option of frogs/fishes/turtles/waterfowl for food.

I'd love a pond but the boss keeps saying no. It might be one of those times I need to ask for forgiveness. Her reasons are valid but I don't think it will be as big an issue as she thinks.

 

[Lex Concord]

Thank you! I did not find my well but did find a neighbor's. His seems to be 100' more shallow than mine.

My Pleasure. Another good resource for GIS data (including well data) is the Since mrjarrell's not around anymore, maybe someone ought to come to deflect this assertion of Reason being the flagship of libertarianism. Maybe they're the flagship of alt-libertarianism?[/QUOTE] I didn't know Mr. J was gone. I'm a libertarian. Got a free issue of Reason; told them to send no more as it read more socialist than anything else. I don't and never did see Reason as the "flagship" of anything, with the possible exception of Radley Balko. What is the flagship of the Republican Party? Conservatives? "True Conservatism"? I don't think there is such a thing. Regarding the concept of "libertarian flagship", who is the leader in a herd of cats? I don't know. I know some here like to use libertarians as a foil (Libertarians are more useful in that respect if you ask me, but if you have thin skin, you probably shouldn't admit to sharing beliefs with 2-10% of the world... by definition, you're the odd man out).... anyway, just like modern-day progressives stole the name liberal, some "former" progressives use the term "libertarian" to cloak their socialism. Some did the same with the word Republican. It happens. To me, at the core, libertarianism is a belief and adherence in the Zero Aggression Principle (ZAP). For those who don't know and too lazy to Google, that's not even close to pacifism, so put the paintbrush down. Years ago, I was a big-L county co-chair here in IN. I supported Ron Paul twice (even donated to his campaign...still the only candidate who's ever gotten a dime from me). I've voted for Badnarik and Johnson, and consider myself a borderline Ancarcho-Capitalist. On 11/8/2016, I voted for Donald Trump. I still feel icky, and it made not a bit of difference in the outcome either in my precinct, district, state, or the electoral college, but I'd do it again. I'm also an NRA member, even though I preferred GOA's rhetoric for years. I guess I'm a "pragmatic libertarian". I believe that private arms shouldn't even start to be limited until we get past RPGs and 20 mm, that government should stay out of our lives so long as we stay out of each others and that Radlely Balko is, generally speaking, an asshat. What's the point of the stream of consciousness above? Maybe none... maybe just that many libertarians (and Libertarians) are far more likely to be allies, especially on gun issues, than any other marginal political group, and it could prove counterproductive to continue to lump all together with"]IU GIS Map You can toggle layers, and there are a few that have to do with water wells and records... I think it's a superset of the one I linked previously.

It doesn't appear to have well data, but you might find the Boone County GIS site interesting.

You might also check with your county recorder.

 

[BobDaniels]

My Pleasure. Another good resource for GIS data (including well data) is the ] You can toggle layers, and there are a few that have to do with water wells and records... I think it's a superset of the one I linked previously.

It doesn't appear to have well data, but you might find the Boone County GIS site interesting.

You might also check with your county recorder.

I am familiar with the GIS data website, I found it through NETR Online • Home - Environmental Records, Property Records, Public Records & Historic Aerial Images through their Public Records Online link. It links to damn near every county in the country.

 

[shibumiseeker]

12v diapragm sprayer pumps with the built in pressure switch is what I have used from my holding tanks to the pressure tanks for about 20 years now. The smallest pull about 4 amps (~50 watts) and provide about a gpm and cost about $30. Larger ones provide 3-4gpm and cost around $80-100. I get. 3-4 years of life out of one and they can be run in parallel to provide redundancy and increased flow. I do rainwater from the roof with a diverter for the initial flow to wash the roof, and a shallow well and lake backup. Occasional chlorination of the system and filtration of the drinking water.

 

[gamecrimez]

I like the idea of the solar/battery setup, of course in the winter or cloudy day not much help. Depending how far the creek is & the depth have you considered a solar/hydro hybrid system , the creek (again depending on depth) always flows even in winter, so you would have 2 sources of power. Just a thought!

 

[BobDaniels]

12v diapragm sprayer pumps with the built in pressure switch is what I have used from my holding tanks to the pressure tanks for about 20 years now. The smallest pull about 4 amps (~50 watts) and provide about a gpm and cost about $30. Larger ones provide 3-4gpm and cost around $80-100. I get. 3-4 years of life out of one and they can be run in parallel to provide redundancy and increased flow. I do rainwater from the roof with a diverter for the initial flow to wash the roof, and a shallow well and lake backup. Occasional chlorination of the system and flitration of the drinking water.

Thank you for the info on 12v pumps; I hoped I would get a response with real life experience.

What do you do to prevent freezing? I want to drop a cistern in the ground but I haven't figured out how to keep the pump and pressure tank from freezing. The cistern will be next to the barn and I assume the pump and pressure tank will need to be located near the cistern. (barn is not heated) I plan to tie into existing plumbing in the ground (hydrants in yard and barn fed from house) to feed water back to the house. I suppose a very well insulated "pump house" might do the trick.

Thank you again for your input.