We Gun Owners Are Often Our Own Worst Enemy....

[Caleb]

I think there are two stupid party in this group

 

[KLB]

I think there are two stupid party in this group

Agreed.

 

[Walt_Jabsco]

Roads are for cars unless there's a bike lane. GTF out of the way, people have lives to lead.

Yeah! How dare people be athletic, eco-friendly or poor! Get a car you hobos!

On a more serious note, many of the attitudes about cyclists in this thread scare me. While the person in op's story was certainly wrong, most of you just don't seem to understand the risk to cyclists.

A week ago today, I was struck head on by a car going between 15 and 20 mph in a parking lot. I was near the center of my lane, he was rushing in to beat traffic and cut a corner. Luckily, I was wearing a helmet and I'm young, so the damage is fairly minimal; I only have 20 stitches in one knee, road rash all over my right side and a ruined left thumb that will require surgery to repair.

Attitudes like those I've seen in this thread are what contribute to cyclist injuries. For drivers, cyclists are a nuisance who might contribute to being late. For cyclists, every driver is a genuine threat. Just think about that the next time you wildly honk and pass close to a rider.

 

[tr1gg3r]

Cyclist vs. SUV Road Rage

So, apparently a fella was riding his road bike on a country road in Boone County. A man in a Grand Cherokee buzzed him while trying to pass and then, once by, hit his brakes. The cyclist fired some rounds of .45 at him, only striking him in the shoulder with a bullet that had already gone through the seat. It did not penetrate.

Here's a link to the story.

 

[rgrimm01]

Common decency.

There was once a time, I remember being raised with it drilled into my head, where if I were driving, walking, riding down the road and noticed I was holding up traffic, my reaction would be to pull over and allow the drivers behind me to pass and be on their way. It's nothing personal. Drive or ride however you want. But if you see some folks behind you, exercise a little common decency. (same for us drivers wanting to pass).

I remember those same lessons. They were taught at a time when common sense and decency was the focus of most lessons. This goes hand and hand with pedestrian right of way at intersections. People who walk out without checking traffic or making traffic stop mystifies me. They are playing games with something that outweighs them 15+/1. Simple physics. In that collision, the pedestrian loses even if they are right... I think that if you cannot do at a minimum the posted speed limit and are impeding traffic, then you are a safety hazzard and should be ticketed and your bike impounded if you are unwilling to give right of way to the motorized vehicles. Every time I see a cyclist during rush hour traffic with a line cars behind, I shake my head.

 

[paddling_man]

Play stupid games (both of them,) win stupid prizes.

 

[KLB]

Dupe
https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/general_firearms_discussion/210880-we_gun_owners_are_often_our_own_worst_enemy.html

 

[KLB]

I remember those same lessons. They were taught at a time when common sense and decency was the focus of most lessons. This goes hand and hand with pedestrian right of way at intersections. People who walk out without checking traffic or making traffic stop mystifies me. They are playing games with something that outweighs them 15+/1. Simple physics. In that collision, the pedestrian loses even if they are right... I think that if you cannot do the minimum posted speed limit and are impeding traffic, then you are a safety hazzard and should be ticketed and your bike impounded if you are unwilling to give right of way to the motorized vehicles. Every time I see a cyclist during rush hour traffic with a line cars behind, I shake my head.

You have different rush hour traffic than I do. Often times a bike will be faster than cars at rush hour.

 

[paddling_man]

I think that if you cannot do the minimum posted speed limit and are impeding traffic, then you are a safety hazzard and should be ticketed and your bike impounded if you are unwilling to give right of way to the motorized vehicles. Every time I see a cyclist during rush hour traffic with a line cars behind, I shake my head.

Can you name five roads in Indianapolis... heck, Indiana, that have a "Minimum Posted Speed Limit" that are not interstates, which already prohibit bicycles and farm machinery?

I grow impatient with bicyclists but *only* pass them safely.

Riding a motorcycle I am keenly attuned to the games people play while driving "cages" being just as deadly as taking a shot at me. While I would *not* be taking a shot at someone for braking, they might get a lesson in courtesy.

Too many people get behind the wheel and believe they have the same anonymity and immunity that leads them to behave inappropriately on the 'net too.

In my car. Allisonville Road just north of 465. 1730-1800 on a M-F. A few weeks ago. I'm in the lead. I see the light turn green. In the scant moments when I move my right foot from the brake to the accelerator, the SUV behind me flips on the bright lights and l-a-y-s on the horn. As I pull away, I glance in the mirror. The ~50 yr old woman is flipping me off with both hands. She must've continued this for a good mile.

By the time we're at the next light, I'm beside her in the lane. I turn to look - incredulous - and she won't even make eye contact, both hands at 8 & 2, staring straight ahead.

Were I as unbalanced as her, she might have found herself in real trouble at that next light.

People are strange.

 

[rgrimm01]

Can you name five roads in Indianapolis... heck, Indiana, that have a "Minimum Posted Speed Limit" that are not interstates, which already prohibit bicycles and farm machinery?

You are absolutely correct. I misspoke. I intended to relay the thought of driving at a minimum(or a window of 5mph) the posted speed limit (weather/road conditions permitting). If you are in a posted 40mph and only riding your bicycle(golfcart, moped, horse and buggy, dog sled etc. ad naseum) 16mph impeding traffic, that strikes me as wrong.

 

[rgrimm01]

You have different rush hour traffic than I do. Often times a bike will be faster than cars at rush hour.

Possibly with traffic bumper to bumper or a light at every block, The secondary roads generally flow. I am reminded of Geist to Brooks School road before the housing build up. Nearly rural with traffic avoiding the conjestion. Never failed that a bicyclist would be slowing traffic on those narrow old roads during rush hour.

 

[Caleb]

There have been time when I ride on the shoulder and I swear to god that some people intentionally play chicken to see how close they can get to me without hitting me. Now legally speaking, I have every right on the road as any cage driver, so....kiss my ass.

Both people in this situation were stupid...the guy who shot the gun and the guy who slammed on the brakes. Funny how brake checking somebody in a car is illegal, but not when on a bicycle. Double standard? I think so...

 

[nomadicmutt]

To Bike riders:
You can't have it both ways. EITHER you are a "vehicle" and you are totally entitled to the full width of your lane (like a motorcycle is), OR you're a bike and can ride on the shoulder or split lanes between stopped traffic. If you insist on having your full lane until the stoplight and then you're suddenly content with a sliver of road between cars, then you're playing an obvious double standard and will get no sympathy from the non-bikers.

To Road Ragers:
Brake checks never ever end well. What is the most positive outcome you can see happening with a brake check? At best..... what? they stop? they don't stop?... ?

I ride a motorcycle a lot, and I ride a bike downtown. I hear both sides of the argument, but I side with the non-confrontational drivers. Bikers (on average) play a dangerous game with their double-standard.

Honestly, I'm all for the bike NOT counting as a vehicle and only deserving a few feet of lane. That lets us lane-split and dodge around stopped traffic on the shoulders and sidewalks (yes, it's legal to ride on sidewalks, oddly enough).


...
oh right. guns.
... uuuuuhhhh...
Look! What an idiot gun owner...?

 

[swany11]

I agree. In the Butler/Broad Ripple area there are a lot of cyclist. Some are decent and considerate to automobile traffic and others are just jerks. They will ride in the middle of the lane instead of towards the right, don't stop for stop signs or lights and get mad at you if you want to pass them. What made it all worse is that the city took already congested 4 lane streets and took 2 lanes away to make bike lanes and a center turn lane. Some of these streets rarely have any bikes on them at all or very few. Sometimes, like near 38th/Illinois, your lane just disappears b/c of the added bike lanes. I ride a bike and try to be a considerate cyclist and not interfere with motorized traffic but unfortunately I'm in the minority around here.

For what it is worth, we got that changed a week or so ago. Nothing quite like having your lane take you right into parked cars.

 

[freehuman]

Bicycles are vehicles, they have the same rights and responsibilities as cars. No vehicle shall be deprived the right of a lane... go read the laws on driving and bicycles in Indiana. Posted speed limits on roads are not a required speed... please look up definition of 'limit'. Law also states that bikes that ride on the road must have a white light on the front visible from 500ft and red light on the read visible from 500ft... so if you see a bike on the road that doesn't have proper lighting, they are not following the law... feel free to run them off the road...

Indiana Code 9-21-11

I ride my bike everyday to commute, exercise and general travel because I can. Indianapolis has 63 miles of bike lanes, 200+ by 2015, so you may as well get used to it even if you don't see bikes using the lanes when driving. It's funny you never hear people complaining about sidewalks that aren't used. Even if I didn't bike I appreciate roads that have bike lanes because those roads are safer because they do not allow people to speed as easily.

I ride everywhere except the sidewalk, because it is for walking and the interstate, because there is a required speed and against the law for bicycles to ride on them.

I carry while riding my bike. Like any other sane person, I would only ever fire my weapon if I thought my life was in danger. The main reason I carry is because I ride my bike in some of the sketchiest parts of town there are, at night... I would hope that I would only ever need to display my weapon to stop a bad situation from getting worse.

When I ride my bike, I expect any drivers to share the road and be courteous. I will take up the entire lane most of the time because I know the cars driving on that road may not give me at least 3 feet and it forces drivers to safely pass me just the same as if I was a farm vehicle... if this pisses you off or you think that roads are only for cars... you are the problem, it is the law... deal with it. Bicyclists do get mad at cars for passing them... but I think mostly it is because they feel you did not pass safely. I see this happen every day on my commute and feel like I'm going to witness a horrific head on collision just because someone couldn't wait 5 seconds longer to pass me. Yes bikes may run red lights if they think it is safe or move to the front of traffic at a light and run a red only to clear the intersection safely by letting all drivers know they are there, get to their lane so that traffic can then flow. Don't worry though, driver's education and BMV written tests have already changed this year to reflect how car drivers should share the roads with bikes.

If you buzz me or yell at me to get out of the road, I don't yell back or flip you off because that is pointless and although in most cases it may very well be deserved... my bike is equipped with a 120db air horn that is louder than your car's horn or a human's voice and I will use it my discretion to get driver's attention or vent my anger. If you buzz me or brake check me you will hear my air horn. And if you stop in front of me (could be considered assault), get of your vehicle and make threats... I will most likely view your actions as a threat to my life.

Cars have been described as a deadly weapon and used as such in many cases. A large 2 ton box of steel moving at a very high rate of speed can be life threatening to pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and other cars.

Yes, some cyclists are not courteous... neither are pedestrians but they have right of way even when jay walking, mostly because a 2 ton vehicle can instantly kill them if you do not yield to them. I view people on bikes and motorcycles the same way when I am driving... it is just courteous. You will get there when you get there, you don't need to speed just to get to a stop sign or wait at a traffic light. It is called common sense and not being a d***.

This particular case does not sound like it fits the rules of stand your ground unless the guy was backing up, getting out of the vehicle, and walking towards the guy on the bike making threats etc. I don't know any of those details but I do think that if he actually did have a LTCH, it is possible that he may have had a reason to fire his weapon other than that the guy just made him mad. Or maybe I'm wrong and he is just an irresponsible 25 year old idiot on a bike with a gun.

Either way, please don't kill me with your car, respect others even if they aren't in cars and be careful out there.

 

[gunowner930]

Both of these guys are wrong. Given the information available, Steiman should not have fired when he did.

"As I passed him he flipped me off and made some obscene gestures." said VanHowe who said he slammed the brakes. "I simply stopped my car to give hime a piece of my mind."

Come on man... You're trying to brakecheck a guy on a bicycle!? Of course Steiman shouldn't have fired his gun, but is Steiman not supposed to be a little upset by that?

"The last thing you expect in the world is some guy dressed like Lance Armstrong with a gun." said VanHowe.

Then maybe you shouldn't try to start a fight with somebody you don't know...


VanHowe behaved like an ass too. Oh my you got flipped off!!! Flip the bird back or have your buddy moon him or something instead of brakechecking a bicycle to give him a "piece of your mind." I'm glad I've never encountered a semi driver who behaved as poorly as VanHowe while driving my car.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Yes bikes may run red lights if they think it is safe or move to the front of traffic at a light and run a red only to clear the intersection safely by letting all drivers know they are there, get to their lane so that traffic can then flow. Don't worry though, driver's education and BMV written tests have already changed this year to reflect how car drivers should share the roads with bikes.

It's funny how we can justify our law breaking with ease and at the same time admonishing others to following the laws we admire by telling them to just get used to it.

 

[freehuman]

It's funny how we can justify our law breaking with ease and at the same time admonishing others to following the laws we admire by telling them to just get used to it.

I'm not saying it is right... I just know why it is generally practiced. In NY you would get a ticket for that on a bike because it is no different... you might in Indiana too if a cop actually sees it. Passing standing traffic at a light... I'm not sure about but again there is a reason why most people do it. It is a double standard but the standard is the same between cars and pedestrians... you don't try to run over a jay walking pedestrian when they try to cross the road when it is not their turn, you yield because you're in a huge metal box that can easily kill them if you don't, right or wrong.

I think the laws need some work to identify some of these same situations between bikes and cars. For now, I try to integrate as much as possible when riding a bicycle on the roads. It is what the law reflects you should do and it is safer because doing so is at least predictable to other drivers.

 

[Harry2110]

I about go insane whwn the bikers up here in their spandex take up a whole lane during rush hour, while there is a complete bike trail on the side of the road for them to use three feet away. I honk loudly at them. It is rediculous, but happens every day here. I suppose they are training for the Tour de France or something, and need the road for that?

depending if this was on 146th as I hate that trail as it has soo much glass and road debri that it almost guarantees a flat everytime i ride it and the flats it causes are not nice put a new tube in but blow the tire off the rim style. plus in hamiliton county the trails arent mapped or marked so you dont know when one starts, where it goes and where it ends. I do take the lane so that idiot drivers are forced to switch lanes instead of just being able to squeeze past millimeters from me(happens everytime i give someone room to do so in the lane). Also depending on the trail some do not want a person training on them as it could be a danger to peds.

Now the sad thing is if the trails were taken care of like the streets and not full of trash I would more than happily ride them myself as it gets me away from driver like you that think you own the road.

On a side not if the guy is in skinny jeans, with no helmet and riding a fixed gear go right ahead and lay on the horn/lights/ train horn as most dont respect most laws that VC(vechicular cyclist)and motorist follow and are a disgrace to cyclist image.

I'm not saying it is right... I just know why it is generally practiced. In NY you would get a ticket for that on a bike because it is no different... you might in Indiana too if a cop actually sees it. Passing standing traffic at a light... I'm not sure about but again there is a reason why most people do it. It is a double standard but the standard is the same between cars and pedestrians... you don't try to run over a jay walking pedestrian when they try to cross the road when it is not their turn, you yield because you're in a huge metal box that can easily kill them if you don't, right or wrong.

I think the laws need some work to identify some of these same situations between bikes and cars. For now, I try to integrate as much as possible when riding a bicycle on the roads. It is what the law reflects you should do and it is safer because doing so is at least predictable to other drivers.

ok the passing at a traffic light is becuase depending on what lane your in you could get run over easily. A common practice is in a straight turn lane to move to the front so that you dont get turned into be a motorist trying to turn and pass you at the same time. Plus it allows you to be more visible to all motorist at the intersection.

Bicycles are vehicles, they have the same rights and responsibilities as cars. No vehicle shall be deprived the right of a lane... go read the laws on driving and bicycles in Indiana. Posted speed limits on roads are not a required speed... please look up definition of 'limit'. Law also states that bikes that ride on the road must have a white light on the front visible from 500ft and red light on the read visible from 500ft... so if you see a bike on the road that doesn't have proper lighting, they are not following the law... feel free to run them off the road...

Indiana Code 9-21-11

I ride my bike everyday to commute, exercise and general travel because I can. Indianapolis has 63 miles of bike lanes, 200+ by 2015, so you may as well get used to it even if you don't see bikes using the lanes when driving. It's funny you never hear people complaining about sidewalks that aren't used. Even if I didn't bike I appreciate roads that have bike lanes because those roads are safer because they do not allow people to speed as easily.

I ride everywhere except the sidewalk, because it is for walking and the interstate, because there is a required speed and against the law for bicycles to ride on them.

I carry while riding my bike. Like any other sane person, I would only ever fire my weapon if I thought my life was in danger. The main reason I carry is because I ride my bike in some of the sketchiest parts of town there are, at night... I would hope that I would only ever need to display my weapon to stop a bad situation from getting worse.

When I ride my bike, I expect any drivers to share the road and be courteous. I will take up the entire lane most of the time because I know the cars driving on that road may not give me at least 3 feet and it forces drivers to safely pass me just the same as if I was a farm vehicle... if this pisses you off or you think that roads are only for cars... you are the problem, it is the law... deal with it. Bicyclists do get mad at cars for passing them... but I think mostly it is because they feel you did not pass safely. I see this happen every day on my commute and feel like I'm going to witness a horrific head on collision just because someone couldn't wait 5 seconds longer to pass me. Yes bikes may run red lights if they think it is safe or move to the front of traffic at a light and run a red only to clear the intersection safely by letting all drivers know they are there, get to their lane so that traffic can then flow. Don't worry though, driver's education and BMV written tests have already changed this year to reflect how car drivers should share the roads with bikes.

If you buzz me or yell at me to get out of the road, I don't yell back or flip you off because that is pointless and although in most cases it may very well be deserved... my bike is equipped with a 120db air horn that is louder than your car's horn or a human's voice and I will use it my discretion to get driver's attention or vent my anger. If you buzz me or brake check me you will hear my air horn. And if you stop in front of me (could be considered assault), get of your vehicle and make threats... I will most likely view your actions as a threat to my life.

Cars have been described as a deadly weapon and used as such in many cases. A large 2 ton box of steel moving at a very high rate of speed can be life threatening to pedestrians, cyclists, motorcyclists and other cars.

Yes, some cyclists are not courteous Hipsters ... neither are pedestrians but they have right of way even when jay walking, mostly because a 2 ton vehicle can instantly kill them if you do not yield to them. I view people on bikes and motorcycles the same way when I am driving... it is just courteous. You will get there when you get there, you don't need to speed just to get to a stop sign or wait at a traffic light. It is called common sense and not being a d***.

This particular case does not sound like it fits the rules of stand your ground unless the guy was backing up, getting out of the vehicle, and walking towards the guy on the bike making threats etc. I don't know any of those details but I do think that if he actually did have a LTCH, it is possible that he may have had a reason to fire his weapon other than that the guy just made him mad. Or maybe I'm wrong and he is just an irresponsible 25 year old idiot on a bike with a gun.

Either way, please don't kill me with your car, respect others even if they aren't in cars and be careful out there.

the light rule is only for dark and oh boy do i abuse it. I put out more light front and rear than a semi(no rule for cyclist on limiting the amount of light i can have only that i have to have it If i build my setup i want ill have around 11k lumens or more than a 747 landing.)


Also Im about to join that club once i move out of my college dorm and can finally carry a handgun.

 

[hillnc01]

Share the road means share the road.

Cars aren't supposed to pass bikes, they are supposed to treat them like any other vehicle.

If I saw backup lights heading towards me, I'd probably send one threw the back window too!

Read... or go RE-READ the drivers manual again if you don't know the current driving laws....


http://www.in.gov/bmv/files/Drivers_Manual_Chapter_5.pdf

page 71

I'm really disapointed to see this from you, as typically I enjoy most of your posts but come on!! They both didn't handle the situation well at all, but the minute the guy pull a gun it went way over board. What ever happen to people that weren't pansies and threw a couple fist instead of going for a gun every time... The guy showed his brake lights and you feel that is justification to pull your pistol?? This is why certain people shouldn't carry firearms, the paranoid scared guys who are afraid of their own shaddow who feel the slightest bit of intimidation and pull a pistol...