weird question: how would you report to class III?

[IndyGuns1]

okay so a friend of a relative purchased a AR15 or m4 or m16 off a guy through another online forum a few weeks back... after doing research he found out that the gun POSSIBLY could have been made before the ban... does this mean anything? he has not went out to shoot the gun or anything like that. IF the gun was made before the ban does he need to do anything to save himself some trouble?

 

[E'villeGunner]

Seems to me a semi-auto is a semi-auto, no matter what the age of it. Now something that is or can switch to full auto, that's out of my league.

 

[IndyDave1776]

okay so a friend of a relative purchased a AR15 or m4 or m16 off a guy through another online forum a few weeks back... after doing research he found out that the gun POSSIBLY could have been made before the ban... does this mean anything? he has not went out to shoot the gun or anything like that. IF the gun was made before the ban does he need to do anything to save himself some trouble?

If he bought a weapon that is full auto and not registered as such prior to May 1986, he is SOL. Date of manufacture is irrelevant. I could have the first Thompson SMG off the line from 1921 and if it is not registered prior to 5/86 is it still contraband and cannot be registered under any circumstances other than as a post-sample or a LE-only weapon.

The best bet is to buy a stripped lower, install the parts with a semi-only fire control group, and disappear the original lower.

If I misunderstood and it is a semi-auto weapon of pre-86 vintage, it is no different than buying a new one today--perfectly legal, but there is no way to legally convert it as it is not possible to register any full-auto, new or old, after 5/86.

 

[IndyGuns1]

well there isnt a switch or anything that makes it semi? its only "safety and fire" like i said he hasnt shot it to see if itll keep firing?

 

[Tombs]

That lower never existed.

You should have a build party.

 

[IndyGuns1]

not my weapon. maybe you could talk him into a build party?

 

[IndyDave1776]

well there isnt a switch or anything that makes it semi? its only "safety and fire" like i said he hasnt shot it to see if itll keep firing?

If 'safe' and 'fire' are the only two options, he is legal. If there is a concern, try to turn the selector another quarter-turn past 'fire' and see if it will move that far. If it does, (after verifying the gun is empty with the mag removed), dry-fire and hold the trigger all the way back. While doing so, manually cycle the bolt. If it merely cocks the hammer and requires you to release the trigger and pull again prior to firing again, you are strictly semi-auto. If there is an extra hole drilled in the lower above the trigger, the BATF will have a problem with that. If there are mill cuts in the left side wall of the receiver on the inside to allow clearance for an auto sear, the BATF will have a problem with that. Even if the gun will not fire full-auto, if you find evidence of either of those mods, buy a new stripped lower and disappear the old one.

From the information available, your friend may have a perfectly legal rifle or may have a free ticket for a 20 year vacation at Club Fed. Hard to tell under the circumstances.

 

[IndyGuns1]

dave, i havent personally seen the rifle but from a picture i was sent it looks identical to a SP1 but im also not a gun expert. after you sent that i called him and he said that "safe" and "fire" are the only two positions and that the selector will NOT turn past fire.
so he is clear on it being a fully auto weapon, but the fact that it could have been manufactured before the ban doesnt mean anything correct?

 

[IndyDave1776]

If the selector will not turn past 'fire' and there are not strange (relative to an AR-15) mill cuts on the inside of the receiver or extra holes, he has a perfectly legal semi-auto only rifle. The BATF definition is that one shot per pull of the trigger is legal, more than one shot per single pull of the trigger is a full-auto (i.e., machine gun) and illegal unless registered prior to 5/86 with the standard exemptions for the .gov. He should be OK as he is based on what you are saying.

You are understanding right, the date of manufacture is completely irrelevant.

 

[Cameramonkey]

d
so he is clear on it being a fully auto weapon, but the fact that it could have been manufactured before the ban doesnt mean anything correct?

The ONLY thing that matters is whether it will go full auto, or has the internal adjustments to the lower that would allow it to be converted.

If its only a semi auto that is pre-1986 He is clear.

Absorbing what was posted, it sounds like he is in the clear but if he feels more comfortable, it should be inspected by a TRUSTED gunsmith. (e.g. that gunsmith will follow the recommendations above and make that lower disappear and replace it with a compliant semi auto lower instead of ratting him out to the feds for a BS charge.)

 

[IndyDave1776]

In this picture, you see how the area in which the fire control group is installed is more open and the wall is meatier as to move toward the back. On (an illegal) full-auto receiver, the left wall will be milled on the inside the same thinner thickness pretty much all the way to the back.

 

[IndyGuns1]

should he just shoot the gun tomorrow to make sure it absolutely will not fire more than once per trigger pull??. but he also said there arent any cuts on the reciever.

 

[IndyDave1776]

No cuts should be a sound indicator he is OK, along with the absence of any extra parts, but test-firing offers the absolute proof.

 

[Bunnykid68]

No cuts should be a sound indicator he is OK, along with the absence of any extra parts, but test-firing offers the absolute proof.

But do it away from in strangers just in case

 

[IndyDave1776]

But do it away from in strangers just in case

Absolutely!

 

[IndyGuns1]

so the picture you posted is of a LEGAL one?

 

[IndyDave1776]

so the picture you posted is of a LEGAL one?

Yes, that one is legal. The illegal version would have the left side thinned down almost clear to the back.

The lighting in that picture could be better, but the left or nearer side changes thickness roughly parallel with the right side. On an illegal receiver, the left side does not get thicker.

 

[IndyGuns1]

But do it away from in strangers just in case

Absolutely!

HAHAHAHAHA ill be sure to tell him that part too! ill show him the picture you posted, but he says there are no mill cuts. you guys have been awesome!!!

 

[Bunnykid68]

HAHAHAHAHA ill be sure to tell him that part too! ill show him the picture you posted, but he says there are no mill cuts. you guys have been awesome!!!

All I said was do it away from strangers, Dave was the helpful one, I had no idea about that stuff and I still do not understand it all

 

[IndyGuns1]

i dont really understand any of it either. YES INDYDAVE1776 youve been nothing but helpful!! thanks!
all of this has me thinking tho...what if the gun was a auto, but had been registered after 86, and the previous owner passed away and a family member sold it to a stranger as just a "semi auto AR"??? what could the new owner then do? JUST buy a new lower and misplace the old one?