What do to about bad OC?

[lashicoN]

My question is this-- under what circumstances would you call the cops on someone who was OC'ing? I realize that many folks think that OC is a great idea. I don't. I realize that I'll get flak for saying that, but I do think that everyone has to agree that some OC crosses the line into being intimidating and inappropriate.

I'm not anti-gun, I carry all the time.

What kind of behaviors would you consider to be over the line?

1. I agree that OC is a right that every gun owner has. I don't oppose OC.

Transformation complete.

I think any CC tactical advantage for uniformed police officers is pretty much lost when they put on the blue uniform, hat, badge, black batman belt, crackling radio, and jack boots.

What possible advantage could there be to hiding their gun on their ankle at that point?

Speaking of which, just last night I was picking my fiancé up from a bride's maids party and there was a guy outside with a coat on, but I could see his holstered pistol hanging out the bottom (no alarm bells yet). Then I notice he goes up to a locked door and yanks on it about 15 times, which raised by suspicions 100%, because he looked crazy, then all of a sudden his concealed radio goes off with some other guy giving him the go ahead to come on in, so he leaves the side door and goes to the main door. He whipped the radio off pretty quick though, I was guessing he was "undercover" security for the hotel/resort. It was just odd to me that he concealed his huge radio so well, but didn't bother concealing the handgun that well. At what point should I have called the cops?

 

[Demo]

Depends lashicoN- was the holster crappy?

 

[Hammerhead]

But if you're going to present a weapon, you should be prepared to take that shot when it comes to it.

If you're going to present a weapon, you MUST be prepared to take the shot, or you have no business running a gun. Period. If someone carries a gun with the hopes that it's intimidation value is enough to protect them, that person is a liability to society as a whole.

Perhaps you misunderstood. I wasn't saying that you should be prepared to take a shot, any shot, anytime, when it comes to it. I do believe you must be prepared to take a shot, or you have no reason to carry a gun. I have resigned myself to defending in a similar situation, I have resigned myself to pulling the trigger. I am calm in the fact that when it comes to it, and the last thing I can possibly do before pulling the trigger has been exhausted, I will pull that trigger. I don't relish the thought. I don't look forward to doing so. In fact I dread any situation that requires me to do so. But I will be prepared to do so.

When I originally said that you should be ready to pull that trigger if you've presented your gun, I meant for your specific scenario. If you've already presented your gun in an attempt to relieve a BG of theirs, and they decide to not comply, i.e. turning and targeting you, you've had your chance to resolve your issues and decided to pull your trigger. If it comes to that, you should be ready to pull your trigger.

All the existential warrior thoughts should already be resolved well before that.

 

[PatriotPride]

FIFY

It may be old but it's not worn out. There are those that love to rehash this argument. I can never quite understand those who never want to talk about a topic that has been done before. Pretty much everythign has been done before. That doesn't mean that a new idea won't come up or that an opinion might be swayed.

I don't dispute that there MAY be a new idea that comes to the surface---but it is BLATANTLY obvious to me that this will not be the case here.

This thread has turned into nothing more than a p*ssing match. I must have missed the constructive posts...the closest I saw was when it was asserted that OC is "socially retarded". Yes, now THAT is a good way to debate

I OC, and I want to be left alone. Simple as that. So you CC and find it "retarded" that I carry my weapon openly? Good for you. Continue to CC and until you can actually provide a LOGICAL and TRUE reason as to why OC is such a problem, BE QUIET. My God, it's not the big issue that it's made out to be by the police and the ardent CCers. For wanting to CONCEAL your firearm, y'all certainly do go out of your ways to point out that you CONCEAL your firearm. Seems a bit counter-productive to me.


I'm not saying that these are necessarily "bad" threads, but when time after time I ask for a logical and TRUE reason why OC is so "retarded" and all I get is "yeah, well---prove why OC is good! It's not 'tacticool'" , it gets to be a bit irritating. I thought we outgrew that kind of behavior in grade school.

Bottom line---OC, CC, lube it up and conceal it where the sun doesn't shine---just don't demean those who (at the end of the day) made the wise choice to carry a firearm in the first place.

 

[Jack Ryan]

... At what point should I have called the cops?

Sometime after you noticed him fingering the door knob but before you got your hands full of gun drawing on him.

 

[Bill of Rights]

I don't dispute that there MAY be a new idea that comes to the surface---but it is BLATANTLY obvious to me that this will not be the case here.

This thread has turned into nothing more than a p*ssing match. I must have missed the constructive posts...the closest I saw was when it was asserted that OC is "socially retarded". Yes, now THAT is a good way to debate

I OC, and I want to be left alone. Simple as that. So you CC and find it "retarded" that I carry my weapon openly? Good for you. Continue to CC and until you can actually provide a LOGICAL and TRUE reason as to why OC is such a problem, BE QUIET. My God, it's not the big issue that it's made out to be by the police and the ardent CCers. For wanting to CONCEAL your firearm, y'all certainly do go out of your ways to point out that you CONCEAL your firearm. Seems a bit counter-productive to me.


I'm not saying that these are necessarily "bad" threads, but when time after time I ask for a logical and TRUE reason why OC is so "retarded" and all I get is "yeah, well---prove why OC is good! It's not 'tacticool'" , it gets to be a bit irritating. I thought we outgrew that kind of behavior in grade school.

Bottom line---OC, CC, lube it up and conceal it where the sun doesn't shine---just don't demean those who (at the end of the day) made the wise choice to carry a firearm in the first place.

I saw a new point in this thread I'd not seen before. We've all heard of "Suicide by cop" and apparently now, Suicide by armed citizen is coming into vogue. Not something I'd considered or even heard of before and definitely something to give me pause. One of the Emergency Rooms in Lafayette (that is now closed, sadly) had an event occur probably close to 20 years ago now... The son of one of the housekeepers came into the ER, took hostages, and was eventually shot in a suicide-by-cop situation. The officer who had to take him down had departmental backup and was not found to be at fault or guilty of any wrongdoing. I can't count on that kind of backup.

The coward died, BTW, despite the ER staff he'd just held hostage picking him up and starting to work on him.

All of that said, how you carry is far less important than whether you carry... or not.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[PatriotPride]

With all due respect, the "suicide by citizen" argument is weak in every possible way. I worry more about a police officer shooting me than a deranged person forcing me to shoot them.

In the end, we carry firearms for the exact same reason as ALL law enforcement officers: defense of ourselves and others. If the "suicide by cop/citizen" were truly legitimate, then police should not carry firearms capable of lethal force, and neither should citizens. It sounds as absurd as you'd expect it to be once it's reasoned out.

I won't let my method of carry be dictated by others. If the OC of my pistol makes me the unlucky one that is chosen by a suicidal person, then so be it. Some people choose to step out in front of moving vehicles to commit suicide. Should I then sell my car and walk everywhere? Again, it really does sound absurd when you look at it from a logical viewpoint.

I will not live my life with the fear that somehow, my (legal) actions might cause someone to go full-retard.

 

[Beau]

FWIW I wasn't trying to offend you. Just making funny.

 

[PatriotPride]

FWIW I wasn't trying to offend you. Just making funny.

No offense taken It was directed more towards the group who disparage OC at every opportunity.

 

[ProLibertate]

Perhaps you misunderstood. I wasn't saying that you should be prepared to take a shot, any shot, anytime, when it comes to it. I do believe you must be prepared to take a shot, or you have no reason to carry a gun. I have resigned myself to defending in a similar situation, I have resigned myself to pulling the trigger. I am calm in the fact that when it comes to it, and the last thing I can possibly do before pulling the trigger has been exhausted, I will pull that trigger. I don't relish the thought. I don't look forward to doing so. In fact I dread any situation that requires me to do so. But I will be prepared to do so.

When I originally said that you should be ready to pull that trigger if you've presented your gun, I meant for your specific scenario. If you've already presented your gun in an attempt to relieve a BG of theirs, and they decide to not comply, i.e. turning and targeting you, you've had your chance to resolve your issues and decided to pull your trigger. If it comes to that, you should be ready to pull your trigger.

All the existential warrior thoughts should already be resolved well before that.

Points well taken. I love the new avatar pic by the way.

 

[Coach13]

Call the cops because you don't like OC?

Call the cops on people not violating the law?

Do it me, and if I find out you are who did it, I'll sue your sorry, anti-gun butt into the ground, even if just to make you spend time and money defending the lawsuit.

IMHO, people like you are far more of a threat to our society than criminals. And much, much more of a threat than a couple guys walking down the street wishing you a good evening.

Anti-gunners and Fudds are enemies of our Constitution, and our freedom. I'd rather deal with Brady Bunch buffoons. At least they don't slink around and try to stick the knife in your back.

I think what he was getting at was that a punk with a gun, appearying to be looking for trouble, was his concern. I think that he took the time to share, and he is a member here, doesn't make him an anti-gunner and a fudd. I think you were a little quick to judge. Give your fellow members the benefit of the doubt...... I agree with what you said however you placed this INGO Member on the wrong list and pulled the trigger. Not looking for argument just saying.

Just another thought, what if he didn't have concern and that punk turned out to be the one that shot those five teens in the field?

The lines of good judgment blur with the infinite number of situations. I think this is what he was looking for, the line.....

I grew up in the inner city, punks do as punks do......

Later,
A

 

[Goodcat]

Just another thought, what if he didn't have concern and that punk turned out to be the one that shot those five teens in the field?

What if someone spotted your gun on a bad day, someone called the cops on you. You were wrongly arrested and thrown in jail and your rights were violated.

Are you ok with the person placing the phone call saying:

"He looked bad to me, I'm glad I called, I mean.... what if he had been a murderer?"

Just saying...

 

[caverjamie]

I really only see one reason someone would open carry - to make a point. I decided to not be harsh myself and change my original language - to rephrase, I think it is unwise to open carry in an urban setting. You're just asking to be the first one shot in any bad situation you may find yourself in. You can do what you want under the law, but I prefer to appear unarmed until I need it.

As a side benefit and related to the OP, you don't make people nervous. Once again, I'm sure many people here like the idea of making a point that hey I have a gun and I can legally carry it in the open. But I've never seen someone carrying a gun openly in a public setting (only on rural private property) other than a uniformed officer - so it would certainly get my attention. Now I have several guns and am used to them, what about the people that are not? They are of course likely to call the cops. I see no reason to try to get the general public comfortable with open carry because it serves no useful purpose - if someone thinks it is superior to concealed carry, explain it to me!

I think some people were overly harsh to the original poster.

Just my opinion...

 

[turnandshoot4]

I really only see one reason someone would open carry - to make a point. I decided to not be harsh myself and change my original language - to rephrase, I think it is unwise to open carry in an urban setting. You're just asking to be the first one shot in any bad situation you may find yourself in. You can do what you want under the law, but I prefer to appear unarmed until I need it.

As a side benefit and related to the OP, you don't make people nervous. Once again, I'm sure many people here like the idea of making a point that hey I have a gun and I can legally carry it in the open. But I've never seen someone carrying a gun openly in a public setting (only on rural private property) other than a uniformed officer - so it would certainly get my attention. Now I have several guns and am used to them, what about the people that are not? They are of course likely to call the cops. I see no reason to try to get the general public comfortable with open carry because it serves no useful purpose - if someone thinks it is superior to concealed carry, explain it to me!

I think some people were overly harsh to the original poster.

Just my opinion...

I agree that others may have been harsh to the OP.

Merely because you have never seen OC in an urban/suburban setting doesn't mean it doesn't happen every day. Come up north. Plenty of people see eachother OC'ing all the time. Furthermore, if you don't use your rights you'll lose them. If OTHERS don't know you are using your right, they won't see the wrong in taking it away. If guns become an everyday sight for the public they will be less likely to want a ban put on.

The point isn't superior or inferior means of carry. Merely different strokes for different folks.

 

[IDCC]

I am sure that there are members here that are model citizens, polite and law abiding etc. Some of them I am sure would set off my alarm bells by the way they appear/act while OC'ing. They would probably still register on my "radar" while not OC'ing.

 

[Goodcat]

I really only see one reason someone would open carry - to make a point. ........
......Once again, I'm sure many people here like the idea of making a point that hey I have a gun and I can legally carry it in the open. But I've never seen someone carrying a gun openly in a public setting (only on rural private property) other than a uniformed officer - so it would certainly get my attention.

First, there are a variety of reasons people open carry. One is physical comfort. Two is you don't have to have any reason to exercise any of your rights.... It is a right, you don't need to justify it to anyone. I don't have to tell people "I choose to speak freely because.... I like to.... and it's a right.... and i can make a point"

Secondly, I find it odd you've never seen anyone open carrying. Yes, it is very rare in a populated area, but they are out there! If people get used to seeing it, it becomes the norm and longer scares people????

I do understand your points though, don't get me wrong.

 

[Fiexie]

If anything, you respect their rights to OC, just like we respect the rights of Westboro idiots. Respect the fact no matter how stupid they act, infringing on his rights infringes upon everyone's. Shut up and let natural selection do the work for them.

 

[nate1865]

This is why we lose freedoms. Everybody wants everybody else to do legal things 'MY WAY', get upset, then figure out how to pass laws to see it is done 'MY WAY'.

Your sense to avoid them was probably good. They may have been on a hubris-high. He might be somebody on these forums who thought "hey, I'll OC with my two buds and talk to people - see how it goes". When it started going well he got cocky and started strutting, which rubs some the wrong way. Not saying I like pride or hubris so in-your-face either, but still.

I suppose we can all learn that staying humble helps avoid generating animosity towards us.

 

[Bill of Rights]

With all due respect, the "suicide by citizen" argument is weak in every possible way. I worry more about a police officer shooting me than a deranged person forcing me to shoot them.

In the end, we carry firearms for the exact same reason as ALL law enforcement officers: defense of ourselves and others. If the "suicide by cop/citizen" were truly legitimate, then police should not carry firearms capable of lethal force, and neither should citizens. It sounds as absurd as you'd expect it to be once it's reasoned out.

I won't let my method of carry be dictated by others. If the OC of my pistol makes me the unlucky one that is chosen by a suicidal person, then so be it. Some people choose to step out in front of moving vehicles to commit suicide. Should I then sell my car and walk everywhere? Again, it really does sound absurd when you look at it from a logical viewpoint.

I will not live my life with the fear that somehow, my (legal) actions might cause someone to go full-retard.

I didn't say it had to be a reason for you, I just said it was a reason for me to reconsider the validity of OC for me. I still support the right. I still agree that many people find OC more comfortable, that the ease of deployment of the pistol is higher, that there may be some deterrence factor, that there is an opportunity provided to educate, and that familiarity breeds not contempt but an awareness and if not comfort per se, a lack of discomfort.

For me, I don't find my CC to be at all uncomfortable, I can draw fast enough that if I need it, I can put my pistol to use (though yes, OC would be faster still), and I think I take an opportunity from time to time to educate people.

With that said, the very fact that we carry (in either CC or OC), IMHO, is at least in part dictated by others' actions or by a desire to make a point; We know that others' actions may cause us to have reason to use that tool and we wish to be prepared to do so and/or if our CC is made unintentionally (or "unintentionally" wink wink, nudge nudge) known, that we will have opportunity to make a point. As an example, I was over at my daughter's house a few days ago and sitting on her couch with her and her two roommates, and apparently, my shirt rode up. The one roomie, who grew up in Chicago area, widened her eyes a little. "Do you have a gun?", she asked, surprised. I answered calmly, "Yes, I do." I don't recall my exact words afterward, but they ended with a reassurance, or at least I intended it as one, quietly commenting on the fact that she'd never seen me without one. That realization, I think, does far more to educate, when someone is perfectly calm around you, suddenly sees something that surprises them, and you make it clear that nothing has changed; the only thing new is that they realize it now. I would prefer that no one find out I carry unless they have reason to find out, being that they've threatened someone I love (including me!) and now realize they've bitten off more than they can chew, though I'd far more prefer that they not threaten in the first place. I think both methods have value, my personal choice for now is to continue to CC.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[protecting my rights]

I know this is an old thread. But I would like to know who the guy is that said he was involved in the shooting at the Village pantry at 71and Georgetown RD. If the guy's name is Bill he is a lire. There was only two other people's in the store that night and I was one of them.