What permit do I need to carry?

[eldirector]

1) Not having your LTCH on you can possibly cause a hassle. Should it? No. It's a good thing nothing ever happens that shouldn't happen, right?

2) I don't understand the resistance to carrying this little piece of paper or plastic. If you forget, that's one thing and the change of law to not require it on your person would be helpful, but all this discussion means people are thinking and planning to avoid carrying 1/8 ounce of card when they carry 15 to 28 ounces of gun.

There's something I'm not understanding here.

You bring up 2 (or 3) good points.

1) Folks get hassled for carrying WITH their LTCH. They may get hassled for carrying WITHOUT their LTCH. Heck, they get hassled for NOT carrying a handgun even while licensed. They get hassled for NOT EVEN OWNING a handgun, and not being licensed. If a particular LEO intends to hassle someone, the presence or absence of a a easily forged pink piece of paper isn't going to change much.

2) I don't think anyone, not even me, is "resisting". I'm just not making a super-special effort. If I forget my wallet, I'm not going back JUST for my LTCH. I'm also not grabbing my wallet before I walk out, JUST to be sure I have my little pink slip.

3) I can neither confirm nor deny that you or a third party do or do not understand any particular thing.

The IC is pretty clear on this topic, IMHO. LE is a bit less clear. I'll continue to assume that the vast majority of LEO are good folks, and if they need to confirm my identity and my LTCH status, they will use the tools provided to do so, rather than escalate the situation unnecessarily. I've yet to have an issue (unlike some other INGOers, it seems).

Related Question:
Do those of you who carry your LTCH also carry a government issued photo ID as well?

 

[HoughMade]

...Yet under Indiana law in both scenarios you are required to submit your LTCH.

Cite please.

...and I don't think you understood what I was getting at.

Why not carry your LTCH with you? It may help avoid a hassle and it's not like it's poster board sized.

 

[SteveM4A1]

Related Question:
Do those of you who carry your LTCH also carry a government issued photo ID as well?

I'm never out in public without my wallet, which the LTCH and DL are always carried in. So yes

 

[HoughMade]

I'm never out in public without my wallet, which the LTCH and DL are always carried in. So yes

Same here. Why would anyone not?

 

[eldirector]

I guess the wallet doesn't rise to the same level of necessity for me.

Just this week my girl and I were down at the neighbors for a few hours. Left the wallet at home, since we were just walking down.

Stuff like that happens pretty often with me. If I don't need cash/cards and I'm not driving, I don't grab it on the way out the door.

 

[SSGSAD]

I'm never out in public without my wallet, which the LTCH and DL are always carried in. So yes

AMEN, to THAT !!!!!

 

[mannus]

I don't carry my LTCH, although I do have picture of it on my phone.

 

[chipbennett]

4th Amendment - The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Terry vs Ohio was a landmark SCOTUS case in the 1960s. In that case, the court said (paraphrasing), a person may be temporarily detained if there is reasonable articulable suspicion a person has committed a crime, is committing a crime, or will commit a crime....

One of these scenarios has Reasonable Articulable Suspicion of a crime and one does not. Yet under Indiana law in both scenarios you are required to submit your LTCH.

In Indiana, carrying a handgun is unlawful. The LTCH is merely an affirmative defense. So, an officer merely having knowledge that you are carrying a handgun constitutes specific, reasonable, articulable suspicion of unlawful activity.

Is it dumb? Yes. The way the ICS is written, mere exercise of a natural, constitutionally protected right is inherently unlawful, and the burden of proof lies with the individual to provide an affirmative defense (i.e. to produce an LTCH).

I would like to see that aspect of the ICS rewritten, for obvious reasons.

 

[Bill of Rights]

...Why not carry your LTCH with you?...

I'm not one for jogging, as my belly can attest, but I can see if someone is going jogging, s/he may not want to take a wallet (Oh God, I said wallet!) but may want a handgun depending on any of several factors.

...Related Question:
Do those of you who carry your LTCH also carry a government issued photo ID as well?

I do, but not specifically to "back up" (that is, verify that it is indeed) my LTCH.

I get Hough's question: It's just a piece of paper/plastic, f'r God's sake! Carry it, already!


The problem with the LTCH in this situation is not the size or weight of the paper or plastic, it's the "authority" requiring it be carried. When the law changes and it's no longer required (hopefully this coming session... you've all written your representatives and senators, right?) I imagine many will willingly carry it, if only because it's no longer required.

And before the question gets asked, no, I don't know why some people resist authority like that, any more than I know why others seem to worship that same authority.

Blessings,
Bill

 

[eldirector]

I suspect a lot of guys end up with a "George Costanza" wallet, with all of that "its just a card" stuff. Then need a "European Carry-all" to lug it around.