Which pistol primers for self defense loads?

[dieselrealtor]

I am hoping this thread doesn't devolve to become a discussion about using factory for SD loads.

I have had a few light strikes with S&B & now Fiocchi SPP's on a friends S&W Bodyguard 380 & a Taurus 85 (on DA only, SA is fine). Haven't had these issues in other guns I own but it has made me think about it a bit more.

Am I wrong to think that SD loads should work 100% reliably in relatively any properly working firearm, even ones that may be a little finicky?

I have a fair supply of S&B SPP's, Fiocchi SPP's, CCI 500's, a few Winchester & very few Federals.

In a perfect world I would stick with one (standard load) primer but I kind of take what I can get.

 

[VERT]

You know you really should use factory loads for self defense. Ha ha

I have been led to believe that S&B primers are pretty hard. I know a Glock with a light striker spring will choke on S&B ammo.

The competition revolver guys with those nice tuned up double action triggers usually recommend Federal primers because they are softer and go bang the easiest.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Federal has long had the reputation of being the easiest to ignite primer (commonly, but incorrectly, referred to as 'soft'). CCI is "hard". S&B tends to be "hard". Winchester is in the middle.

And of course self defense ammo should be 100% reliable in any gun carried for self defense. If it won't touch off in some POS and you aren't carrying that POS, who cares?

That said, factory ammo remains the correct answer. In deference to your request to not discuss it, I'll leave it at that.

 

[rosejm]

Am I wrong to think that SD loads should work 100% reliably in relatively any properly working firearm

You are not wrong. Just like you would not trust a firearm or magazine that didn't work all the time, neither should you trust a cartridge that doesn't.

Think about this from the opposite perspective: would you carry a factory load that didn't work every time you pulled the trigger?

With all the things that can put you at a disadvantage in a self-defense scenario, is something you can control going to be on that list?

 

[Michigan Slim]

Federals and Winchesters for everything here. Tens of thousands with no issues ever.

 

[dieselrealtor]

Edit, I think I have some Remingtons as well but not positive.

 

[DadSmith]

I am hoping this thread doesn't devolve to become a discussion about using factory for SD loads.

I have had a few light strikes with S&B & now Fiocchi SPP's on a friends S&W Bodyguard 380 & a Taurus 85 (on DA only, SA is fine). Haven't had these issues in other guns I own but it has made me think about it a bit more.

Am I wrong to think that SD loads should work 100% reliably in relatively any properly working firearm, even ones that may be a little finicky?

I have a fair supply of S&B SPP's, Fiocchi SPP's, CCI 500's, a few Winchester & very few Federals.

In a perfect world I would stick with one (standard load) primer but I kind of take what I can get.

I suggest getting a extra power firing pin spring/Striker spring.
I usually put them on most of my firearms just for the purpose of running foreign primers which most seem to be harder than CCI, Federal, Remington, Winchester, etc.

The Bodyguard might need a stronger spring. The Taurus M85 that should hit pretty hard with the hammer.
How often has both been shot? Could they need fresh springs?
My youngest son had to replace his Striker spring after a little over 6k rds in his Ruger American 9mm. It ran most but had problems with Argentine SPP.

I make my own self defense ammo if I can get my hands on HST and Gold Dot hollow points for said caliber. 45acp, 9mm. In my 10mm I run XTP because they flatten out nicely and offer deeper penetration when loaded at full power 10mm.
I use CCI for my SD loads.
2nd is Federal primers which I think are the same, but packaged differently. Correct me if I'm wrong about that.

 

[dieselrealtor]

The Bodyguard belongs to a friend of ours, I don't think it has more than a couple hundred rounds through it.

The Taurus 85 I picked up 2nd hand, unknown history but doesn't appear to have a ton of rounds down the pipe. Only happened on DA, SA was fine.

I have had a couple of friends reach out to me when factory ammo was scarce, happened before it will happen again. Want to make sure I have some on hand that are expected to run in any gun that is clean & functioning properly.

 

[Creedmoor]

In my 38 wad cutter automatics I use Remington # 1/2 SPP, not 5 1/2 SPP for they have a heavier cup for hotter 38 /357 loads for range shooting. And Fed GMM SPP for serious shooting.
I have also shot a few thousand S&B SPP over the last few years in the same pistols without any lite strikes and failure to ignite.

 

[DadSmith]

The Bodyguard belongs to a friend of ours, I don't think it has more than a couple hundred rounds through it.

The Taurus 85 I picked up 2nd hand, unknown history but doesn't appear to have a ton of rounds down the pipe. Only happened on DA, SA was fine.

I have had a couple of friends reach out to me when factory ammo was scarce, happened before it will happen again. Want to make sure I have some on hand that are expected to run in any gun that is clean & functioning properly.

I tend to use CCI the most.
I've never had much problem with them. Once in awhile I'll run across a hard primer with the 550's (1 or 2 in 1000, and not all the time just a few batches over the 30+ years of reloading. ), but never have with CCI 500's. Maybe I'm lucky, but CCI 500's are my go to primers for small pistol primers.

 

[Trapper Jim]

There is no need to restrict you to factory loads. I have seen more problems per thousands in factory runs creep up in the last 8 years. Third world brands, financial groups running ammo companies, machines wearing out, and a skimping on components in OEM.

The great handloading your own ammo will get you life in prison from a jury is controversial . That thinking goes right along with why did you go looking for a fight with a gun in the first place? Either way, you are going to need the best attorney on earth no matter what you do if you are in a lethal fight. It is difficult if not beyond human ability to second guess mayhem. Justice is expensive and even then can be non existent.

Staying with factory loads used to be the best advice. Now, for the experienced hand loader, the best reason for factory loads is the variety of non buildable cartridges because of unavailable products.

For instance, I have been carrying Winchester https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/Defender/S45PDB or https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Handgun/Defender/S9MMPDB1 because it is too costly to build these myself with hard to get bullet types.

Having said all this, if you want to carry handloads, then you must master handloading. That my friend is a commitment and one that today’s shooter just finds easier to buy factory loads. There is nothing wrong in that except that relying on factory production with the US selling our raw materials to China and such along with the corporate greed of financial conglomerates leaves the American shooter holding his breath with supply chains that are controlled by inside and outside sources.

The S&B quality question is cut and dried for me. Shooters on the cheap are getting what they pay for. Many will swear by the foreign crap to justify saving money, pretty boxes or just plain availability. I personally have seen quality control issues and along with supporting the heartland swing wide of this stuff.

The bigger issue in your OP is not primers, it is carrying a gun on the street that will not spark the toughest of primers. If one has to gingerly step around getting easy peasy primers that go bang in his gun, heaven help him.

Danny Dremel grinding away at sears, springs, strikers and such to get a better trigger is best to keep that for his shooting games at the range.

Good luck.

See you on the range

Trapper

 

[BehindBlueI's]

The great handloading your own ammo will get you life in prison from a jury is controversial . That thinking goes right along with why did you go looking for a fight with a gun in the first place? Either way, you are going to need the best attorney on earth no matter what you do if you are in a lethal fight. It is difficult if not beyond human ability to second guess mayhem. Justice is expensive and even then can be non existent.

x

Many on here are long on advice and short on experience. So be careful of self doctoring on the interweb.

Yup.

 

[CB1911]

If I could choose a lifetime supply of small pistol primers, it would be Federal. The only thing I don't like about them is the bulky packaging and that they sit in the tray sideways.

 

[Trapper Jim]

x


Yup.

Yup again. One can choose what he wants to believe. I try not to be narrowed minded and offer a debate in anything I believe in.

Not a big koolaid drinker.

 

[Magyars]

CCI primers here. Never had a failure to fire.

 

[armalitesheepdog]

I bought a brick of match grade Federal primers I use when I load higher end projectiles that may be pressed into a SD role. Gold dots XTP Silver
Tips ect
It may have been a waste but I feel good about it.
For the record my carry load is factory Federal HST. I buy the better projectiles when I find a good deal.
Thank you Brian's Surplus

 

[BugI02]

I have had perhaps one FTF in 3000+ rounds with CCIs since the pandemic tightening of supplies

I have not tried Ginex or Fiocci or S&B primers, so solely CCI, Winchester and Federal. I would try S&B if I saw them as I like their ammo. That said, I don't particularly care for striker fired pistols and have been hammer fired only for at least a decade. When it was possible to go into a store and just get what you wanted, I only used Winchester for handgun ammo and Federals for rifle. Only added CCI to the mix because they were often the most available

I carry mostly FNPs in 9 or 40 and use factory HSTs for SD

 

[Aszerigan]

The great handloading your own ammo will get you life in prison from a jury is controversial . That thinking goes right along with why did you go looking for a fight with a gun in the first place? Either way, you are going to need the best attorney on earth no matter what you do if you are in a lethal fight. It is difficult if not beyond human ability to second guess mayhem. Justice is expensive and even then can be non existent.

Trapper is right.

From the experience of one of my absolute best friends - handloads are fine for self defense. One of the reasons people think they put you in jail is there's no way to definitively measure the ballistics, so distance to target/victim and velocity of impact can't always be established with certainty. They introduce questions that factory ammo doesn't.

Most factory loads have an absolute recipe. Handload data can be given but is subjective.

When he shot and killed the junkie robbing the store he was working, even his civil trial was thrown out. After many discussions with him and a lot of bad factory ammo, I don't carry anything but hot, effective handloads for self defense. I'm not looking for a fight, in fact I hope I'm never in one, but I know my ammo will function if I am. YMMV.

Also, to answer the question - my batches of Fiocchi's haven't failed.

 

[Leadeye]

I've used a wide variety of primers in a wide variety of guns. I would agree that for troublesome guns ammo made with Federal primers can help. That said, I would not make a troublesome gun my carry pistol even if I enjoyed shooting it. I like shooting old guns, some of which are just as reliable and deadly as modern ones, but not all.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

From the experience of one of my absolute best friends - handloads are fine for self defense. One of the reasons people think they put you in jail is there's no way to definitively measure the ballistics, so distance to target/victim and velocity of impact can't always be established with certainty. They introduce questions that factory ammo doesn't.

Ballistic evidence can be an issue. Mas has an example of a light handload vs a knife wielding suspect where distance was questioned. Was the knife wielder close enough to put the shooter in the required imminent danger? Other times, optics matter. If your buddy is who I think he is and the load was a hot 10mm, I've heard him talk at Mas's class and say he carries factory ammo now, even though it wasn't an issue with his particular shoot.

Some shoots are so clean you could have a swastika covered pistol with nude photos of the prosecutor's mom engraved on the grips and be fine. We all hope any shooting we are in falls in that category. Some are more questionable, facts are in dispute, a political emergency happens, etc. Thanks to, IMO, an incredibly stupid attorney who had no idea how to make a good self defense case I can think of one blatantly good shoot that the optics surrounding it resulted in a guilty of a lesser in recent history here in Indiana. The vast vast majority of cases in Indiana will not be that sort of case. But if it's your case, how rare it is won't matter much to you.