Why not let Palestine become a state?

[turnandshoot4]

I just don't understand.

Why would the U.S. oppose it? I see Israel as an oppressor that will not listen. In the name of freedom and "human rights" I see it as a win-win.

I know Israel doesn't want it because then they couldn't crap on those around. With defined borders they would be invading a soverign country when they want to expand settlements.

Palestinians seeking statehood: What's at stake – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

 

[GBuck]

Calling Rambone.. Calling Rambone...

 

[RichardR]

I just don't understand.

Why would the U.S. oppose it? I see Israel as an oppressor that will not listen. In the name of freedom and "human rights" I see it as a win-win.

I know Israel doesn't want it because then they couldn't crap on those around. With defined borders they would be invading a soverign country when they want to expand settlements.

Palestinians seeking statehood: What's at stake – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

That's sort of like saying that the United States should give the state of Texas back to Mexico because there is a large population of Mexicans living there.

 

[CalebToNowhere]

Ha, I was just thinking this!

Calling Rambone.. Calling Rambone...

 

[KLB]

That's sort of like saying that the United States should give the state of Texas back to Mexico because there is a large population of Mexicans living there.

We don't have to give it back. It is slowly being assimilated now.

 

[Disposable Heart]

Well, let's see...

British colonialism and taking over the area during WW1 drew unnatural national boundaries. Palestinians revolted, Brits said okay, here, let's draw new lines again (seems to kick us later one doesn't it?). Drew up Jewish and Palestinian lines. Palestinians were kicked out of their homes by Brit/Israelis.

Jews formally had no real state, this gave them one. Israel then began a campaign against the Palestinians of conquest and took over some land, started popping up settlements. With weapons donated to them by the West and Europe as "reparations" for the Holocaust and other "insert ignorant reason here".

Give it back to them. This is NOTHING like Mexico and Texas in my mind. For it to be like that, we would have needed Britian to help send troops to kick the Mexicans out.

 

[badwolf.usmc]

I just don't understand.

Under which proposal would this state be made?

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Since when do we cave in to terrorists? If after three wars in three muslim nations we're too afraid to defend our sole friend in a 600 mile radius from Tel Aviv, then I am extremely disappointed in our world's best military. Palestinians and muslims the world over approve of terrorism including suicide bombing in very significant if declining pluralities. And before anyone calls me racist or accuses me of exaggerating, Pew Charitable Trust has the numbers to back me up on this.

Muslim Americans: No Signs of Growth in Alienation or Support for Extremism | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

"A significant minority (21%) of Muslim Americans say there is a great deal (6%) or a fair amount (15%) of support for extremism in the Muslim American community."

Even they themselves admit that their community is a harbor for extremist views.

Palestinian Statehood: Mixed Views, Low Visibility | Pew Research Center for the People and the Press

"Just 10% say they have heard a lot about the upcoming debate, while 38% say they have heard a little; fully half (51%) say they have heard nothing at all."

People who, more than half having heard nothing about the issue, support giving Palestine full Statehood. Why not let people who know nothing about engineering design our buildings and bridges while we're at it?

Declining Support for bin Laden and Suicide Bombing - Pew Research Center

"...only in the Palestinian territories does a majority endorse [suicide bomb] attacks."

WHY ARE WE LETTING A COVEN OF TERRORISTS DICTATE FOREIGN POLICY TO THE MOST POWERFUL NATION ON THE PLANET? This is completely beyond me. We assisted terrorists in Libya with overthrowing a man who we were more than happy to put up with for decades and then when a bunch of insurgents rise up we help topple him, after he's renounced his ties to terrorism and has agreed to play nice or else? Did we really think we were going to get some of that oil too? Whatever the reason we're not helping our friends defend their borders, these terrorists should be given a State at all. The fact that Israel is tolerant enough to allow them to continue to draw breathe at all while railing against Israel and her people says volumes more than mortars and Qassam rockets ever could. May Israel prevail against savages who wish her harm and may we finally grow the balls to help her in her endeavors.

 

[GBuck]

Hmmm... Talk about railing against a RELIGION, which last I checked was against INGO policy..

 

[GBuck]

IBTL

 

[HeadlessRoland]

Hmmm... Talk about railing against a RELIGION, which last I checked was against INGO policy..

Railing against followers OF a religion.
Nowhere in that post did I denounce the religion of Islam.

NIBTL

 

[EvilBlackGun]

"Give it back to them"

The entire area of Palestine -- a name given to the area by Rome, 3000 ± years ago, and the timing of that does not matter -- was taken in conquest of the hundreds of pagan and mongrel cities / nations / kings when the wandering Nation of Israel crossed westward over the Jordan River into The Promised Land. Some wild-eyed fanatics will now jump upon that as erroneous Zionist propaganda, and they are welcome to present their own "facts" in contradiction to that statement. The land of Palestine, which is merely an area of real estate, was owned by Israel, a nation even before the Balfor declaration, and enmity from all moslem countries and tribes all around Israel began to crop up, but only after 600 AD (±) when islamofascism began its virulent spread. Then, enter the Crusaders, etc., which are of no consequence in determining "ownership" of the land. The Old Testament is Israel's title-deed to that land. WHY they relinquished ANY of their lands liberated during the 6-day, and subsequent, wars is a mystery to me. BTW, Turkey claimed power to execute their will and law up to the World War. Jews who had the money actually bought huge parcels of Palestine-Israel from Turkey, who was very willing to "change dirt and dust into gold." Now, let's hear YOUR facts.

 

[GBuck]

Railing against followers OF a religion.
Nowhere in that post did I denounce the religion of Islam.

NIBTL

Denouncing the followers of a religion is very similar to denouncing the religion.

"I'm not against rape and murder, just those that practice it."

 

[Zoub]

Because if you "let" them have it then they didn't earn it.

No one lets you have anything. You earn it, or you take it, like employment versus welfare. Some earn it, then others come and take it and give it to a third party. Party number 1 did not let party number 3 have it. Party number 2 took it from #1 and then gave it to party #3.

If the Palestinians want it, then they can go try and take it from the Jews. By force or by 100 years of breeding, both can work. One by taking action, one by failing to act. If a third party takes it from the Jews and then gives it to the Palestinians, then it becomes welfare.

Let has never applied in Nation building or evolution. Let them be and see where it ends up, winner takes all.

 

[dross]

I just don't understand.

Why would the U.S. oppose it? I see Israel as an oppressor that will not listen. In the name of freedom and "human rights" I see it as a win-win.

I know Israel doesn't want it because then they couldn't crap on those around. With defined borders they would be invading a soverign country when they want to expand settlements.

Palestinians seeking statehood: What's at stake – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

The only thing preventing a Palestinian state is the Palestinian "leadership." A state has been on the table many, many times. That's never been the real issue. The real issue is the existence of Israel.

How is Israel an oppressor?

Well, let's see...

British colonialism and taking over the area during WW1 drew unnatural national boundaries. Palestinians revolted, Brits said okay, here, let's draw new lines again (seems to kick us later one doesn't it?). Drew up Jewish and Palestinian lines. Palestinians were kicked out of their homes by Brit/Israelis.

Jews formally had no real state, this gave them one. Israel then began a campaign against the Palestinians of conquest and took over some land, started popping up settlements. With weapons donated to them by the West and Europe as "reparations" for the Holocaust and other "insert ignorant reason here".

Give it back to them. This is NOTHING like Mexico and Texas in my mind. For it to be like that, we would have needed Britian to help send troops to kick the Mexicans out.

DH, your history needs some work. First, the British weren't in the middle east because of colonialism. The area had been controlled by the Ottoman Turks for hundreds of years. The Turks picked the wrong side in WWI, and lost. This gave Britain control of that area.

Second, no one in that area had a state. It was made up of Arabs and Jews. Jews had been living continuously in that area for thousands of years. Arabs had been living there since they invaded over a thousand years ago. When Britain turned the Arab world into nations after WWI, they promised the Jews would have a state, too. They reneged on that promise.

Third, the Israelis forcibly removed SOME of the Arabs living there. This was for strategic reasons because of the war they knew was coming as soon as their statehood was official. The vast majority of the 600K Arabs left on their own because Arab language radio broadcasting into Israel before the war told them to leave. They were promised they could come back when all the Jews were dead.

What's never talked about is the 600K Jews who lived in Arab countries who were forcibly expelled. Why don't they count? Why don't they have right of return?

The Arab countries could have taken the Palestinian Arabs in and absorbed them like Israel took in the Jews expelled from Arab states. Instead, they refused to take them in, forcing them into camps so they could be used as political bargaining chips.

All expansion the Israelis have made since the forties has come from the territory they took when they were attacked.

This stuff is all well-established. It's a testament to the power of the biased media and education system that people don't know this. And none of the things I've said even step into the area of controversial. All are provable facts and most aren't even disputed by the Arabs. How is it that people don't know this?

 

[Zoub]

I see Israel as an oppressor that will not listen.

Some people see the M16 as the rilfe of Peace and Feedom...........others see the AK 47 in the same light and the M16 represents evil.

Your perspective depends on what is being pointed at you.

 

[88GT]

Well, let's see...

British colonialism and taking over the area during WW1 drew unnatural national boundaries. Palestinians revolted, Brits said okay, here, let's draw new lines again (seems to kick us later one doesn't it?). Drew up Jewish and Palestinian lines. Palestinians were kicked out of their homes by Brit/Israelis.

What kind of 'unnatural' boundaries are we talking about here? Palestinians never had a nation-state of their own in the first place. \

Jews formally had no real state, this gave them one. Israel then began a campaign against the Palestinians of conquest and took over some land, started popping up settlements. With weapons donated to them by the West and Europe as "reparations" for the Holocaust and other "insert ignorant reason here".

Where was this land the Palestinians claimed? Palestinians had/have citizenship in the state of Israel or one of the neighboring countries (which incidentally, didn't want the Palestinians either). Within Israel's sovereign border it's Israel's right to do with as it sees fit.

If you are speaking of the territory won during military conflict with Syria and Egypt within which some Palestinians were residing, I feel compelled to remind you that those attacks were unprovoked on the sovereign nation of Israel and that territory was rightfully and legally claimed as spoils of war.

Give it back to them. .

Give what to whom? Palestinians never had their own country.

 

[ViperJock]

I just don't understand.

Why would the U.S. oppose it? I see Israel as an oppressor that will not listen. In the name of freedom and "human rights" I see it as a win-win.

I know Israel doesn't want it because then they couldn't crap on those around. With defined borders they would be invading a soverign country when they want to expand settlements.

Palestinians seeking statehood: What's at stake – CNN Security Clearance - CNN.com Blogs

Israel doesn't "crap" on those around. You've been reading too much Al Jazeera. Israel responds to force with force which is the only thing the terrorists understand. If the terrorists would stop attacking Israel, they would get what they want. If the Palestinians want to be a state they should start acting like one and not a rag tag bunch of terrorists intent on the destruction of another soveriegn nation. But they can't put the violence in the bag long enough to get any concessions.

Now, there are certainly many palestinians that just want a place to love in peace, but there are some dedicated to preventing peace at any cost. The palestinian authority must clean their **** up before they deserve to be recognized as a nation.

Jews formally had no real state, this gave them one. Israel then began a campaign against the Palestinians of conquest and took over some land, started popping up settlements. With weapons donated to them by the West and Europe as "reparations" for the Holocaust and other "insert ignorant reason here".

Is everyone smoking crack today? Remind me, who started the campaign? I know the libtards are trying to rewrite the history books, but I'm pretty sure you will still find that the newly created Israeli state was not the aggressor.

 

[Zoub]

The only thing preventing a Palestinian state is the Palestinian "leadership." A state has been on the table many, many times. That's never been the real issue. The real issue is the existence of Israel.

Yes, the elusive third option I chose to leave out of my first post, work out their issues and move on.

In Wisconsin, we would cry about it then invoke the little knonw option #4, a recall AKA I am whiny B**ch and unable to deal with reality or compromise so we want a do-over.

 

[dross]

Some people see the M16 as the rilfe of Peace and Feedom...........others see the AK 47 in the same light and the M16 represents evil.

Your perspective depends on what is being pointed at you.

Perspective doesn't alter reality, it skews it.