Would You Fight For Your Country - Ref Obama Thread

[jeremy]

I would like to believe that all the vets here would know the answer to your question dclaarjr.

I know in the several units I served in this was always something discussed over beers and in confidence.

 

[agentl074]

If something happens that would cause a civil war, there is something you need to consider. How many of our young men and women do you think would be willing to kill their families, friends and neighbors. I believe that most would switch sides and bring everything they could with them.

I agree Sir

 

[dclaarjr]

I would like to believe that all the vets here would know the answer to your question dclaarjr.

I know in the several units I served in this was always something discussed over beers and in confidence.

You are right Jeremy. I did this as well when I served. I also have some nieces, nephews, and friend of my kids who are serving or have served in Iraq and Afghanistan. I felt them out a little and it was 100% where I thought.

 

[jeremy]

This will help the civi's with the vet stance concerning the military's involvement. The current oaths of enlistment.



Enlisted Oath

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
- Two most important parts of this I think. Notice the officer's oath doesn't say anything about the boss though.



Officer's Oath

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

 

[Marc]

Minuteman Oath

We trust in God that, should the state of our affairs require it,

we shall be ready to sacrifice our estates and everything dear in life,

yea, and life itself, in support of the common cause.




oh yes they will rise again.

 

[DodgebyDave]

The real victory is if no one has to fight. Lord I hope we don't have to do that. Seems a nasty business.

If something happens that would cause a civil war, there is something you need to consider. How many of our young men and women do you think would be willing to kill their families, friends and neighbors. I believe that most would switch sides and bring everything they could with them.

There was quite a stir not long ago about (I believe) a questionnaire that the marine corps was using, one of the questions had to do with firing on civilians. after the initial flap, I never heard much more about it though.

Failing memory again, but didn't some government outfit (Dept. of Justice?) hire a bunch of ex Hong Kong Police for security work?

Back in the 80's there was a special forces underground group called "The Resister" who's philosophy was to take what wasn't nailed down and raise hell. 60 minutes did a thing on them and said they didn't exist and if they did they were racist (sound familiar?).

Looks like we'll have have to dust off the old "art of war". Lets see how good at poker this Obama is.

 

[Jack Ryan]

So then if they decide to confiscate your guns, and you refuse, will you shoot those who try to take them by force? Then you have a posse on your ass and you're running for your life.

The second amendment was put in place specificlly so we would be able to fight our own army, but we've been stripped of that because our own government doesn't trust us. So if even half the army decides to follow orders, how do you run from xray seeing satellites, Predators, and heat-seaking missles? You can run, but you can't hide. So of us seem to think that hiding in the hills will be enough, but it's not like that anymore. They can track us anywhere at anytime.

Mostly that's true and they are working on making it absolute. That's why you can't just be vigilant when it comes to keeping your 45 under the mattress. You also have to be thinking about infringments on your rights and freedom when they pass laws requiring RFD chips in every fowl, dog, beef, or lamb, every living piece of livestock they want chipped so they can track it and tax it from inception to death and consumption. They want to tax wood stoves so they can control your last means of energy that is free from their control.

Credit cards, phone taps, how many terrorist have been jailed since we accepted all that crap? Humm... wonder just how much of a concern "terrorist" were when they wanted the means to total concrol of the legal domestic population?

The main question is not if YOU will fight back. The main question is how much back up will you have should the time come. I know I can count on a couple people here, but not everyone. So what are you really going to do when the time comes? Hide? Fight? Run? Die? Personally, I would rather die a free man and show my kids that some things are worth dying for than to submit and show my kids that you MUST to as you are told without question. That my friends is something you can COUNT ON.

The people I would trust with knowledge of where I am and think them may offer support and comfort with a sherrif posse after me and my face on the news? May be three at best.

 

[Jack Ryan]

...5. Give them up and write stronger letters IN ALL CAPS!

Damn! Now I'm depressed. I thought I would come up with some better options while writing this. Somebody help me with some better choices. This is much harder than vowing to fight against foreign enemies. Thought provoking thread, indeed. OP REP'd...

That is why I want you thinking about it now. When the knock comes on the door you become one of the few who may support freedom but have no means to do so.

Next time you think about buying a gun to save for the apocolypse, buy a post hole digger instead. Buy 20 feet of platic buy glue and end caps. Buy a compass and a GPS.

Then when they knock at the door, let them in, let 'em search and go back to watching TV with your family and remember what your enemy looks like...


...until they leave.

 

[Jack Ryan]

The Federal (and many state laws) wasn't in effect then, so they probably didn't realize that the confiscation was illegal. Now, however, the news about the law forbidding confiscatio has been all over the media sources, so, if they chose to violate the Federal law, they could be held legally responsible for Felony theft of a Firearm. And for violating the laws and the Constitution.
Plus, they would have to live with the local citizens after the fact. There would be hell to pay! One way or another.

Heck they weren't.

What do you think the local police, state police were enforcing?

 

[Jack Ryan]

Too many variables. It looked to be an extension of the last thread, but really isnt, onyl a hypothetical.

How would local rollers and guard people act in this scenario? We do not know for sure. People in history have said one thing, done another. Not saying that anyone specific would do that.

This is not completely hypothetical. We have seen what the National Guard will do when ordered to take action contrary to the constitution and we have seen what the police at all levels will do. Hurricane Katrina was a perfect example or at least the best we've seen in a generation.

In that other Georgia thread we had a LEO acknowledge exactly what I've suspect the vast majority of LEO's felt and would do. They will do what they are told to do. They will do what they are trained to do. They barely are capable of thinking of not going with their team, it goes against every thing they are taught. It's the only way they can do their job.

LEO's as a group will not turn against the established status quo.

 

[Marc]

The people I would trust with knowledge of where I am and think them may offer support and comfort with a sherrif posse after me and my face on the news? May be three at best.

i'll join your posse

 

[Jack Ryan]

So what are you talking about then? A small well funded Army raised by the Messiah? Or a private "Nazi SS" type force that he keeps well hid? Or a rogue Platoon being paid as mercs?

It's not what WE think it's what the guy with the power to do it THINKS he's going to do and what will he change his mind and do with it when he realises what he's got?

American Thinker: Obama's Civilian National Security Force

For many it wasn't a problem of what they "thought Bush would do with the Patriot Act", now it's a problem because of what they are afraid some one else will do with it.

 

[Jack Ryan]

If something happens that would cause a civil war, there is something you need to consider. How many of our young men and women do you think would be willing to kill their families, friends and neighbors. I believe that most would switch sides and bring everything they could with them.

It hasn't been policy for federal troops to be organised by their geographical region since the civil war. What will they do when they are surrounded by people they don't know who are all doing the same thing they have been ordered to do?

 

[Jack Ryan]

This will help the civi's with the vet stance concerning the military's involvement. The current oaths of enlistment.



Enlisted Oath

"I, _____, do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; and that I will obey the orders of the President of the United States and the orders of the officers appointed over me, according to regulations and the Uniform Code of Military Justice. So help me God."
- Two most important parts of this I think. Notice the officer's oath doesn't say anything about the boss though.



Officer's Oath

"I, _____ (SSAN), having been appointed an officer in the Army of the United States, as indicated above in the grade of _____ do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign or domestic, that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservations or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office upon which I am about to enter; So help me God." (DA Form 71, 1 August 1959, for officers.)

I was some how under the impression most civilian LEO swore something similar to defend the constitution but that guy in Georgia said no. Can any one elaborate on that?

 

[Jack Ryan]

i'll join your posse

LOL, my posse or the posse after me?

That's part of the problem, by the time you may need them it's to late to ask.

 

[Marc]

your posse

 

[dburkhead]

Ok, how could it have been legal if it violates the rights of the people? And the Constitution? The citizens weren't criminals, weren't breaking any laws. How could it be justified? It's not like they would be used on law enforcement or emergency personnel. They just wanted to protect themselves, their families, and their property.
What justification did the Mayor/Governor use to steal the guns?

"Given the rather 'limited' interpretation that the courts give the 2nd amendment these days."

"Governors generally have pretty broad powers in an emergency."

I'm not saying I agree with it, but the simple fact is that "illegal" is what legislatures (state and federal) and the courts say it is. This is a different thing from "wrong."

And note that a law passed later cannot make actions taken before its passage illegal. "Congress shall make no ex post facto laws."

What was done was wrong. There is no question about that as far as I'm concerned. "Illegal" (during a declared emergency in terms of then current law) is a bit more slippery.

 

[dburkhead]

Whether they are or not, they would be "working" for money to violate the rights of the people.
I would not feel guilty about defending my rights, life, property against them. In fact I would prefer it if they used instead of our military. There is something about fighting with our service personnel I don't like.

"Would be" "would be" "would be."

First off, although Obama Bin Biden, given their propensity for government control of everything, would not be likely to "outsource" their trampling over the rights of people to private firms like Blackwater, that really wasn't my objection. My objection was the implied comparison between what Blackwater does now to what Obama's "Civilian Security Force" would likely be doing given the totality of the actions of Obama and those of the people with whom he chooses to surround himself.

 

[dburkhead]

However, they are still under civil control.

Yes, the control of a governor who has very broad powers in a declared emergency. Never said otherwise.

 

[dburkhead]

I have been deployed in the same missions as them before and let me tell you brother they got some cooool toys. They are actually VERY well funded.

The point is that they and others like them do exist in the employ of the gov for the ops that the military will probably have a legal issue with or that the gov needs plausible denial ability on. They is not a whole h*ll of a lot that those boys will not do for money.

Such as? What ops have they done, for the government, that the military had a legal issue with, or is this more speculation?