Would you start raiding for supplies if SHTF?

[Leadeye]

I'm too old to move around and last long so my decision is made for me. Defense of a fixed position isn't easy but it's what I have to deal with.

 

[churchmouse]

I'm too old to move around and last long so my decision is made for me. Defense of a fixed position isn't easy but it's what I have to deal with.

Yup.....Fire flood earthquake and we will bug out if we can.
Beyond that.....Standing firm.

 

[Leadeye]

It looks so easy in the movies.

 

[dusty88]

As to the original question, I agree with most here. I am reasonably prepared. Many years ago, my son (probably about 5 at the time) asked me if I would ever steal. I said that "if he and his sister were starving, I probably would steal to get them some food. I certainly hope that would be my absolute last resort after trying to exchange something else or offer a skill. With medicine and agricultural knowledge, I believe I can offer something to most anyone who at least takes a moment to hear me out (and presumably isn't shooting everyone on sight).

That's something else to think about in your backup plan. Many of you here have mechanical or security skills that others could benefit from.

I got him.

Now y'all have got me to thinking about something I had not previously.

I think scavenging / raiding in urban areas would be much easier than in the country. Since none of the Urban Liberal Democrats have weapons of self defense, taking is easy. However, country folk tend to lean Rural Conservative Republican and DO have weapons of self defense, making taking a greater challenge.

Our plan all along has been evacuate suburbia for the woods. LPG is a key component to my prep plan, scavenging grill tanks in the country may be a dicey exercise.

What woods? Do you own some ? State parks? Someone else's land?
I'm not asking where; I'm just asking if you are going to head out randomly or have someone planning to share their woods with you.

In such dire circumstances, I'm not sure how you could help a stranger without making yourself a target, either to the stranger or to someone else who may learn you had the means to help someone else.

I think that is potentially a real problem even in a more minor "SHTF" because there are so many unprepared people in our fragile society.

 

[dusty88]

Unless people are going to be eating nuts and berries, the difference between scavenging and looting is right about nil.

Nuts and berries are usually on private land also. That's looting as well unless you own the land or go to a state park.

 

[dusty88]

Thinking that no one actually read about what happened in Argentina.

The farmers that lived rural actually fared worse for violence than those in the city (as if that were possible). Their guard dogs were poisoned and families ambushed at the gates or just taken at the house when 5-6 vehicles full of organized criminals/gangs rolled in. City folk were more able to cover each other and go grey in the shuffling game between apartments/buildings as needed.

People focus on the look of a mob protest/riot and say, "That's what SHTF looks like!" and totally miss that the criminals who a pro's at what they do today will act as small armies later and with a tank full of gas are more than able to reach out to lonely/isolated farms to target and take by swarm attack. Unless you have teamed up to be a real compound, the farm plan might not be a solid in real life as you would think. And before you think "I'd just call my buddies over to fight with me." See how well that worked in Rhodesia and Southern Africa when attempted by farmers only.

Hint - your buddies will arrive too late - if you are able to get word to them at all.

I am saying this as a person living rural. It's nothing personal or preferential for urban survival. But I am saying that the whole "the cities will flow with blood while farmers kill random cannabal looters on the road in front of the farm" is as much fiction as Rawles book was.

Have a garden? Excellent. Think how you will hide it or move it indoors before it all gets taken in the dark of night.
Have outdoor dogs/chickens/cows? Plan now how you will keep them from being stolen or murdered.
Have a large farm to keep people off? Think now what kinds of patrols it would take, how many people and what skills you will need to keep from getting picked off or hurt from friendly fire.
Have hunting skills? Think how you will hunt when the woods are empty, or worse, when a saiga carrying nutjob is killing 8 member of your hunting party and family one by one.

Being on a farm is no guaranty of food - ask the Ukranians in the 1930's.
Being on a farm is no guaranty of safety - ask the Boers.
Being on a farm is no promise that the city won't just drive to you - ask the Argentinians.
Being in a forest is no promise that you will get food from it, instead you might just die there - see Chai Vang.

Sorry to be a bummer, but you need numbers, more numbers, and a few more after that - and even then you need to be organized and smart.

If you don't, you are simply a remote, isolated, supply laden target.

I think that's a very real possibility. But not a given.

For one thing, in most countries, the law-abiding citizens weren't well armed prior to economic collapse; just the criminals were well-armed. Our criminals certainly are armed and willing to shoot anyone. That is the biggest problem with being a defender: you actually care about who you shoot and about damaging your property. They don't. But they will encounter a lot more resistance in the US than in some countries. And while we aren't the marksmen our revolutionary forefathers were, many of us at least have been using guns on a regular basis. The worst case is probably when one of those groups gets someone with a military background that can quickly take out amateurs like most of us.

I agree overall with your concerns about needing people to protect your land, livestock, etc. But I'm not really convinced the city idiots are (often) coming out in droves. Some of those people literally do not know how to prepare food from a box. Fewer know how to cook something NOT in a box. Even fewer know how to prepare a raw green bean or that an onion is growing under the green stuff sticking out of the ground. If they start shooting a cow to butcher, they are going to draw a boatload of attention to themselves trying to figure it out. And it would be a huge stretch to imagine them trying to figure out what to do with a chicken that still has feathers. If they are truly desperate and hungry enough to attempt things like that, I think it will be more likely they just start eating each other. Ya know. lightly furred and no feathers ... and nearby.

The other problem with getting numbers is you have to live with all those people. Americans aren't used to multi-generational homes. Maybe that's a first world problem but I can imagine a lot of stress throwing families together, especially when half of them are already moaning about their lost lifestyle.

A friend of mine was working in the Katrina area after the storm. She said there were empty trains sitting a mile from the Superdome, available to evacuate people but they couldn't get people to walk there. She said they were too lazy. Maybe they didn't trust the story about the trains. But in any case most of them stayed in the squalor for the aid that they could see with their own eyes, no matter how nasty it was there.

I'll grant you that I would prefer to be somewhere farther from a city, but I'm not going to base my life around a collapse and I don't have the funds to have a full second location.

 

[churchmouse]

The other problem with getting numbers is you have to live with all those people. Americans aren't used to multi-generational homes. Maybe that's a first world problem but I can imagine a lot of stress throwing families together, especially when half of them are already moaning about their lost lifestyle.

My "People" will in fact be family. There are others outside of this but depending on what might happen getting people together can and will be an issue.
We are close enough as a family to survive if we are bunched up together.
We also know and understand rationing and life style changes. Yes, there will be some moaning when the daily shower is gone. No way around that.
Thing is, there are children. The focus will be on their survival. That is a prime motivator.

I do see this as a major issue for many family's/groups.
People not pulling their weight missing the connection with the electronic world.

 

[7.62asprin]

Good men will do bad things out of desperation

Pretty much this. I'd like to say I'm above succumbing to such things, but when push comes to shove I'd have to do whats necessary to take care of my family and I'd assume the same would apply to most everyone else.

 

[bwframe]

We should all remember that "taking care of my family" cannot be achieved when you are wounded or dead. Prepare yourself and your family so you will NOT have to take unnecessary risk.

Sadly, me "taking care of my family" may well involve taking you away from yours.

 

[rhino]

We should all remember that "taking care of my family" cannot be achieved when you are wounded or dead. Prepare yourself and your family so you will NOT have to take unnecessary risk.

Sadly, me "taking care of my family" may well involve taking you away from yours.

You need a bigger family.

 

[marmion]

It really depends on how badly SHTF. If it was all over then I suspect everyone would answer in the affirmative.