Yet another “I was disarmed” thread

[HoughMade]

From the ISP FAQ:
...But I see nothing in there about enforcement, or whether failure to notify invalidates the license, etc. Would need one of the resident LEO or lawyers to help?

No, but if they pursue it, it makes you a criminal (though a misdemeanor) with all the rights and privileges attendant thereto (rights and privileges, at the age of 43!).

 

[chipbennett]

This may be a stupid question, but what does RAS stand for? I think it has something to do with the officer having to be able to articulate an appropriate probable cause for suspicion, but I can't figure out what the R, A, and S stand for. Or maybe I'm way off.

Very close.

RAS = Reasonable Articulable Suspicion

It is something less than PC, but more than a hunch.
PC = Probable Cause

Yep. Lex has it. Think of it as racial profiling except for guns instead of race. You can't pull over a black man just for being so, and therefore he is suspect. You need to be able to articulate a valid reason for the stop.

IMHO that would be like handcuffing Chuck Norris because you know he is capable of hurting you with his bare hands. You don't really have an articulable reason for him to want to do so, but he is capable therefore he is a threat. (In the officers mind)

And note that while the easily-remembered acronym is "RAS" (reasonable articulable suspicion), the actual legal standard, per SCOTUS in Terry v. Ohio, is: specific reasonable articulable suspicion:

And in determining whether the officer acted reasonably in such circumstances, due weight must be given not to his inchoate and unparticularized suspicion or "hunch," but to the specific reasonable inferences which he is entitled to draw from the facts in light of his experience.

 

[Cameramonkey]

The best option to all of this is be a proper person, don't break laws while driving to get yourself pulled over. Really simple.

Thanks, Captain Obvious...

 

[HoughMade]

Thanks, Captain Obvious...

That was obvious, but not worthy of "Captain status". Butter-bar Obvious, maybe.

 

[LockStocksAndBarrel]

 

[MadMan66]

The best option to all of this is be a proper person, don't break laws while driving to get yourself pulled over. Really simple.

I agree with you, but like the OP stated, he didn't know the speed limit had changed and relied on his GPS's posted speed limit. An excuse? No, but honest mistakes occasionally happen despite trying to follow traffic laws. I've never received a ticket in my short time driving (8 years, but that is more than anyone I know my age can say). I try my best to drive in a safe and lawful manner but have caught myself over the speed limit a time or two, as I'm sure everyone, including yourself, has.

 

[bwframe]

The best option to all of this is be a proper person, don't break laws while driving to get yourself pulled over. Really simple.

Or just don't carry a gun, that would solve it too. Nuthin' to fuss over...

 

[rbMPSH12]

The worst part of it, I think, is that when you were disarmed you were then flagged by your gun for 3 minutes and felt you couldn't say anything or you'd get a ticket. I think, though, that it would have been possible to politely say something like, "Officer, I noticed that you said you wanted to detain my gun for officer safety, but now my gun is pointing at me and I don't feel safe. Could you please at least point it in a safe direction?"

 

[printcraft]

Thanks, Captain Obvious...

He's my cousin.

 

[bwframe]

The worst part of it, I think, is that when you were disarmed you were then flagged by your gun for 3 minutes and felt you couldn't say anything or you'd get a ticket. I think, though, that it would have been possible to politely say something like, "Officer, I noticed that you said you wanted to detain my gun for officer safety, but now my gun is pointing at me and I don't feel safe. Could you please at least point it in a safe direction?"

I know the OP said he was being flagged, but wasn't the gun still in the holster?

 

[Bung]

I thought it was legal to carry in your own vehicle, or in a vehicle where you have permission, even if you didn't have a LTCH. Like it is legal to carry on your property without a LTCH.

 

[chezuki]

I thought it was legal to carry in your own vehicle, or in a vehicle where you have permission, even if you didn't have a LTCH. Like it is legal to carry on your property without a LTCH.

You thought wrong.

IC 35-47-2-1 Version b
Carrying a handgun without being licensed; exceptions; person convicted of domestic battery
Note: This version of section effective 7-1-2014. See also preceding version of this section, effective until 7-1-2014.
Sec. 1. (a) Except as provided in subsections (b) and (c) and section 2 of this chapter, a person shall not carry a handgun in any vehicle or on or about the person's body without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun.
(b) Except as provided in subsection (c), a person may carry a handgun without being licensed under this chapter to carry a handgun if:
(1) the person carries the handgun on or about the person's body in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person;
(2) the person carries the handgun on or about the person's body while lawfully present in or on property that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by another person, if the person:
(A) has the consent of the owner, renter, lessor, or person who legally controls the property to have the handgun on thepremises;
(B) is attending a firearms related event on the property, including a gun show, firearms expo, gun owner's club or convention, hunting club, shooting club, or training course; or
(C) is on the property to receive firearms related services, including the repair, maintenance, or modification of a firearm;
(3) the person carries the handgun in a vehicle that is owned, leased, rented, or otherwise legally controlled by the person, if the handgun is:
(A) unloaded;
(B) not readily accessible; and (C) secured in a case;

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

I thought it was legal to carry in your own vehicle, or in a vehicle where you have permission, even if you didn't have a LTCH. Like it is legal to carry on your property without a LTCH.

You can do that in the state of Tennessee as of this past year but that doesn't help us here in Indiana.

 

[daddymikey1975]

Our system IS the ISP database. The system automatically queries the database when we run a person via name and DOB but all we get as the return is license number, status and expiration date.

So, with that being said, what's the relevance of the address bring correct?

 

[Cameramonkey]

So, with that being said, what's the relevance of the address bring correct?

The address on the paper is irrelevant. If you move and don't notify the ISP your license is no longer valid. You might as well have never applied for your ltch if you move without notifying the ISP and you get "carded" by a cop while carrying because it's no longer valid and you are carrying a handgun illegally.

if the address on paper mattered, they would require you to get a duplicate or send one automatically when you update your address.

 

[rhino]

-Overall I am appreciative of his professionalism and understanding. What struck me as odd was during the entire encounter he projected an urgency to find ANYTHING he could to charge me with.

Doesn't that the second half of that sentence contradict the first?

 

[Double T]

LEO's are way overusing the 'Officer safety" excuse as a subterfuge to disarm for invalid reasons. As it's now being abused by SOME Officers, it's time to pull in the reins on it.

Need to push the law further down the road. There is NO valid reason to 'disarm for Officer safety' UNLESS there is probable cause or specific, articulable facts for doing so. Disarming a citizen in Indiana simply because they are armed is NOT a valid reason.

It's up to the civilian population to push further so that specific facts indicating a specific threat must be present before a LEO can legitimately disarm a citizen.

True, but it's also becoming more of a pain to be an officer and not try to cover your six all the time.

1*

If they are worried about being shot in the back over a $400 ticket, and it helps them feel a bit safer on the side of the road; then so be it. But tell a LTCH holder before, not after. And IF that is a concern, they should have us sit on the trunk or hood IMO. Or call in a backup car for all calls like our squad does...they must be bored though.

 

[bwframe]

How many officers are shot by LTCH holders?

 

[chipbennett]

How many officers are shot by LTCH holders?

If national statistics hold true in Indiana, then about an order of magnitude fewer police officers are shot by LTCH holders than people who are (criminally) shot by police officers. (Justified/self-defense shootings in both cases not counted, since they're, well, justified.)

 

[looney2ns]

Captain Obvious here. I get amused by the post of people complaining of being stopped by the po po, and they happen to mention it occurs multiple times per year. But admit they did something each and every time to give the po po reason to do the stop.

So it's obvious to Captain Obvious, that lots of people do not see the obvious. Most likely the same folks that drive past a big new building everyday for 3yrs to finally exclaim at the end of said 3 yrs, "when did they put that there".

I'll go save another forum now.