Youth competitors

[Mike Elzinga]

On the speed/accuracy thing.... Teach and stress accuracy first. It doesn't matter how fast you go, if you can't score A's. Gaining speed after accuracy isn't horribly tough, gaining accuracy when a guy is conditioned to go full speed all the time will be much more challenging. No beginner should ever try to push their speed to the max, wait until you get a few matches in for that. Newbies and this rush for hyper speed is what makes people do foolish things like drop mags, drop guns, have ADs and get DQed. Hit the target every time, then start doing it quickly.

Rob is also right that it will crush his spirit when he tries to go too fast, can't hit anything, and sees all the plates staring back at him. Or has to listen to the RO yell out "Delta Mike, Charlie Mike" at every target.

 

[Hawkeye7br]

I don't have a dog in this fight, but FWIW have both witnessed and experienced this issue. I have been shooting pistol silhouette for 30 years, yes, it is a slow fire sport. I also shoot Steel Challenge matches a couple times a year, and have been teaching rifle & pistol to 4H kids for about 10 years. I've shot a handful of USPSA matches. In Steel Challenge events, I sometimes finish in middle of pack not because I'm fast, but because others are missing targets.

Have the greatest respect for the action shooters, but after 200+ 4H kids, I have NEVER had one that could miss fast and then improve to hit fast. I realize the action sports have GM's that are contrary to this, but they are the exception and not the rule.

I've witnessed silhouette shooters that demonstrated shooting fast when they were running out of time due to gun or ammo malfunction. 3 hits in 25 seconds doesn't sound impressive unless you're using an open sight, single shot handgun at 150 meter targets. There is no way for us to make up for missed targets, 5 hits in 2 minutes will always outscore 4 hits and a miss in 10 seconds.

We too have a saying..."you can't miss fast enough to put X's on you score card".

 

[Coach]

Align the sights and press the trigger straight to the rear. That has to happen. Slow down and get the hits is not necessarily true. It does not take a lot of time to align the sights and press the trigger. A sight picture cannot get better than perfect. SO once it is perfect what are you looking at? Just don't mash the trigger. I can get great hits real fast, and I can miss real slow. The speed by itself is not the cause of the miss.

 

[natdscott]

True enough, Coach, and that may be very clear to you. But applying the perceived pressure of TIME to a kid just learning is a good way to START the trigger mashing.

 

[Coach]

True enough, Coach, and that may be very clear to you. But applying the perceived pressure of TIME to a kid just learning is a good way to START the trigger mashing.

Don't let them. That is where the coaching comes in.

 

[HamsterStyle]

As far as the trigger mashing and getting too fast to be accurate, I'm not too terribly worried about either of those with my son. I am most likely a little biased, but he has shot steel quite a few times since he was probably 7 years old. There are times he goes nice and slow and trues to group everything. There are times he goes as fast as he can and just register hits. The one thing he has always done since day one is stop immediately if there is a miss, take a second, readjust and continue his string of fire. He did that on his own since day one. He understands that hitting and accuracy are the important parts.

He brought up shooting at one of these events. I sure as hell will not discourage it . I will back him as much as humanly possible. Shooting is the one thing throughout his entire life that when he does it, it has his 100% attention and he is 100% receptive to coaching/teaching/instruction. I want him to have this as a "happy place" for him. And it would be awesome if it carried on with him throughout his life as a favorite past time.

Is he some kind of amazing sharpshooter? Nope.

Is he the best out there? Nope.

Does he enjoy shooting? You betcha

Does he want to pursue something that can have great benefits on his life and well being? Sure thing

As his father, will I stop that from happening ? Not a chance.

 

[HamsterStyle]

My son Nick is 12 (about to turn 13) and has been competing USPSA for the past year. I would suggest starting off with the Newbie Match on January 27th at Parabellum. If he wants to watch and learn there is a match at Parabellum on the Dec. 30th. Nick will be competing that night in the first flight which starts at about 5 pm. You are welcome to come up, your son can talk to Nick and I am sure Nick will give him all the info you guys need. You don't need much gear to start, start with the G19 (Thats what my son did) a good holster, at least 4 magazines and mag pouches, eye and ear protection, and as Nick found out a hat is important.

Here is a link to Nicks FB page, feel free to check it out. we have videos up and your boy can kinda see how it all goes.
https://www.facebook.com/nickdmcinnes

Your sons videos are what really got him thinking that he could do this as well. We loved watching them and I am sure we will be watching more of them as we go on this journey.

 

[rvb]

Gheesh guys, we're talking about getting a new junior started, not high speed shooting theory needed to make master or win championships. USPSA targets and SC targets are freakin huge, no need to be bullseye ready. No need to tear through the frirst match with hair on fire, either. Show up, shoot, have fun!

Some degree of accuracy is necessary; I already gave my 2c on that above.

As as for all this development theory, I've come to the conclusion that different paths work better for different folks/personalities. Some people are naturally fast/athletic and have to develop the tigger discipline. Yes it can be learned even after someone has spent time going balls out. Some folks are naturally more inclined towards accuracy and have to learn to be fast.... That actually usually seems harder for folks (or maybe I'm biased because I'm in that group). But Of all the shooters I've watched develop over the last 15 years, it seems to be generally true. A natuarraly fast/athletic competitor can easily develop the trigger control (actually most of the time it's the visual patience to call the shot more than trigger control), but not the other way around.

Lets get the kid and parents involved and hooked! Then ramble on with them about how to maximize scores.

-rvb

 

[BillD]

As as for all this development theory, I've come to the conclusion that different paths work better for different folks/personalities. Some people are naturally fast/athletic and have to develop the tigger discipline.

-rvb

Isn't that what Christopher Robin does?

 

[rvb]

Tigger discipline....

View attachment 43720

 

[singlesix]

Tigger discipline....

View attachment 43720

This is just sooo WRONG.

 

[Bcampbell]

I have read a lot of good advice and real life experiences on this post. What I have experienced working with some of
the younger kids is that you have to keep it fun for them or they don't stay interested. Working with some of the young
Schoolastic teen shooters , some start out slow and methodical and enjoy it and others want to start out blazing. It's just like
all other sports there is basic fundamentals that they have to learn but each kid is different to coach. With all the entertainment options kids have nowdays keeping it fun for them is important to keeping them interested.
My kid started out spraying like he was mad at the ammo. He went to a few steel challenges matches and decided that he wanted
to focus and excell at the steel shooting. At 11 he got on the internet and logged down national level times and some from the more experienced local shooters. He took those times set his "goal" par times and then started practicing. He sprayed a lot , wasted a lot of ammo however he finally reached most of his goals . He still wastes some ammo but again were having fun. My advice is after the kid is safe at handling the firearm , set realistic incremental goals then take the time to help them achieve them.

 

[Coach]

Gheesh guys, we're talking about getting a new junior started, not high speed shooting theory needed to make master or win championships. USPSA targets and SC targets are freakin huge, no need to be bullseye ready. No need to tear through the frirst match with hair on fire, either. Show up, shoot, have fun!

Some degree of accuracy is necessary; I already gave my 2c on that above.

As as for all this development theory, I've come to the conclusion that different paths work better for different folks/personalities. Some people are naturally fast/athletic and have to develop the tigger discipline. Yes it can be learned even after someone has spent time going balls out. Some folks are naturally more inclined towards accuracy and have to learn to be fast.... That actually usually seems harder for folks (or maybe I'm biased because I'm in that group). But Of all the shooters I've watched develop over the last 15 years, it seems to be generally true. A natuarraly fast/athletic competitor can easily develop the trigger control (actually most of the time it's the visual patience to call the shot more than trigger control), but not the other way around.

Lets get the kid and parents involved and hooked! Then ramble on with them about how to maximize scores.

-rvb

Are you old enough for crotchety, old man, soap box speeches, about can't we all get along?

 

[Kmcinnes]

Your sons videos are what really got him thinking that he could do this as well. We loved watching them and I am sure we will be watching more of them as we go on this journey.

Like I said, feel free to join us on the 30th, and if you guys need anything for the newbie match just let us know, if your son is a toothpick like mine he can use his belt and holster set up. My advice is just get out there and have fun. The first few matches can be a little frustrating if he's not getting the hits so I say to start and ust worry about getting A hits, being safe and then start speeding up. Coach has also been a great help!

 

[RobbyMaQ]

It's been my experience that staff at various events are very forgiving and encouraging when it comes to kids. For better or for worse, I've seen staff treat adults (even when noobs) with discouragement compared to children. I'm not calling anyone out on this. Just saying what I've seen. So in that respect, they are fine. They may say your child is safe, or unsafe, but safely out of earshot of the child.
What time I've spent with my son on a range (and oh yeah, you better believe they will listen to a total stranger much better than they'd listen to you) has been more than pleasurable. The utmost respect and patience has been shown to my child on every occasion.
The only question then becomes, "who is better at their craft?". That's going to take some word of mouth advertising... specifically, other kids who've been through it before methinks.

 

[sporter]

It's been my experience that staff at various events are very forgiving and encouraging when it comes to kids. For better or for worse, I've seen staff treat adults (even when noobs) with discouragement compared to children. I'm not calling anyone out on this. Just saying what I've seen. So in that respect, they are fine. They may say your child is safe, or unsafe, but safely out of earshot of the child.
What time I've spent with my son on a range (and oh yeah, you better believe they will listen to a total stranger much better than they'd listen to you) has been more than pleasurable. The utmost respect and patience has been shown to my child on every occasion.
The only question then becomes, "who is better at their craft?". That's going to take some word of mouth advertising... specifically, other kids who've been through it before methinks.

What Staff at what Events?

 

[RobbyMaQ]

I'm not saying they go out of their way to show discouragement towards adults... But that there is more patience and leniency shown towards children. In most cases, they were 'helpful'. In rare cases, they weren't.
Perhaps it's because 'kids don't know any better' vs adults who 'should know better'. IMO noobs don't know any better either. And that's all I am saying.
There is an awful lot that an adult can comprehend, and kids don't. Perhaps some feel that they can be more brunt because of this difference.
It's not my intent to call out any specific program... But perhaps some can reflect on their handling of students and my observations.
If need be, I'd be happy to contact them directly regarding this... calling them out on a public forum? No thanks.
My point being... the OP's kid should be just FINE in this regard.

 

[sporter]

I'm not saying they go out of their way to show discouragement towards adults... But that there is more patience and leniency shown towards children. In most cases, they were 'helpful'. In rare cases, they weren't.
Perhaps it's because 'kids don't know any better' vs adults who 'should know better'. IMO noobs don't know any better either. And that's all I am saying.
There is an awful lot that an adult can comprehend, and kids don't. Perhaps some feel that they can be more brunt because of this difference.
It's not my intent to call out any specific program... But perhaps some can reflect on their handling of students and my observations.
If need be, I'd be happy to contact them directly regarding this... calling them out on a public forum? No thanks.
My point being... the OP's kid should be just FINE in this regard.

So what shooting events have you attended or competed in?

 

[RobbyMaQ]

So what shooting events have you attended or competed in?

What events have your children participated in?

 

[sporter]

What events have your children participated in?

The only shooting events they have participated in were this past summer at our local club, and ole dad was the official. They just started shooting on a regular basis this year. Eventually they will probably be shooting competitively at some point. As I myself shot informal practice PPC matches as a kid.

The reason I ask is I shoot USPSA on a regular basis, as well as some other pistol events throughout the year
And I do not see any "discouragement" you mention. I started shooting in the organization in 2014 and that has not been my experience, in fact quite to opposite.

More over the only time I see adults get their feelings hurt is from unsafe gun handling and get called on it.