USAF Airman Killed in Wrong Address Police Incident

[Ark]

Sheriff's Press Conference

Has the body cam footage.

So this already completely disproves the claims that it was the wrong apartment, that it was a raid, that the police broke down the door, and that the police did not announce themselves.

If Ben Crump's lips are moving, he's lying.

 

[jsx1043]

Others here may know better than me.

With the "burn loot murder" crap, has it become more difficult to hire peace officers and, assuming it has, have the standards for accepting candidates been lowered?

Yes to the first part, and luckily “no” to the second part. Well, at least in Indiana. Hiring and training standards have not changed here, however they have in more liberal states, up to and including relaxing criminal record disqualifications and hiring illegal criminal aliens in California.

 

[maxipum]

So this already completely disproves the claims that it was the wrong apartment, that it was a raid, that the police broke down the door, and that the police did not announce themselves.

If Ben Crump's lips are moving, he's lying.

While all true, is it illegal to be armed in your home? That draw and fire motion was lightning quick.

 

[BP84]

I wonder what training protocol is in this situation. From the video, the guy had the gun in his hand but didn’t attempt to point it at the officer. He didn’t have the chance to put it down.

 

[Ark]

While all true, is it illegal to be armed in your home? That draw and fire motion was lightning quick.

10 out of 10 times, the person with a gun already in hand can put a shot on target long before the person with a holstered gun can. From an OODA perspective there is no difference between brandishing a gun at the police and pointing a gun at the police. If they don't already have you covered with a weapon, the outcome is the same either way when you decide to shoot.

They knocked and announced themselves as police and he opened the door with a gun. That is not something normal people with normal intentions do, and the police don't have a choice but to react to it.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

So are there going to be any retracted statements by the first several INGOers after watching the video, or is everyone still taking Ben Crump's word as gospel? It got quiet in here all the sudden.

 

[maxipum]

I hear what you are saying, but by that logic the responding officer should be dead or wounded and he is not so is he superhuman fast( that was fast) or did the home owner have no intention of getting into a gunfight with officers? I would not answer the door armed unless I suspected trouble. I think you are spot on in that respect. who answers the door armed when police are knocking? Unless he did not hear the announcement. Ear buds? I often have firearms in hand at home does that mean a passing Leo can shoot me? Tragic and sad regardless. Not throwing shade ,life is hard and sometimes bad outcomes occur regardless of our intentions.

 

[BP84]

Curious how this will play out. There is still a lot of missing information. Not enough to make a sound judgement either way.

 

[Ark]

I hear what you are saying, but by that logic the responding officer should be dead or wounded and he is not so is he superhuman fast( that was fast) or did the home owner have no intention of getting into a gunfight with officers? I would not answer the door armed unless I suspected trouble. I think you are spot on in that respect. who answers the door armed when police are knocking? Unless he did not hear the announcement. Ear buds? I often have firearms in hand at home does that mean a passing Leo can shoot me? Tragic and sad regardless. Not throwing shade ,life is hard and sometimes bad outcomes occur regardless of our intentions.

He's not a passing LEO. He's knocking and announcing himself in response to a domestic complaint.

How would you expect a passing LEO to react to you if you drew a gun as you passed him on the sidewalk at arm's length?

The point is that asking a LEO not to respond to this action is asking them to take an extreme risk with their life based on nothing but negative information about the person holding the gun.

 

[maxipum]

Too many unknowns. The man was inside his home and had committed no crimes known to the officer. I’m sure everyone involved is feeling the weight. I don’t envy any of them. Again tragic.

 

[red_zr24x4]

With all the home invasions where the BG's claimed to be LEO, I would not take the word of someone beating on my door until I visually verified that they were the cops

 

[firecadet613]

With all the home invasions where the BG's claimed to be LEO, I would not take the word of someone beating on my door until I visually verified that they were the cops

If you haven't visually ID'd them before they knocked on your door, you're doing it wrong (unless you're in an apt, townhouse, etc).

I'll know before they get close to the house, who they are.

So are there going to be any retracted statements by the first several INGOers after watching the video, or is everyone still taking Ben Crump's word as gospel? It got quiet in here all the sudden.

I'll stand by my initial comments, which were made on the info provided here. I'm 100% pro law enforcement, until they pull stuff like was stated above...and I have family who are sworn LEOs.

 

[rbhargan]

With all the home invasions where the BG's claimed to be LEO, I would not take the word of someone beating on my door until I visually verified that they were the cops

I don't know how you "visually verify" that the people about to beat down your door are cops. Anyone can purchase gear that *appears* to be LEO. I don't even know what a legitimate badge looks like.

Sure, if you are a BG, you can expect to have LEO's burst into your home. How many law abiding people expect their door to be knocked down by LEO's who have been given a "bad address?"

While I am not sure what the solution is, gunning down innocent citizens is NOT acceptable.

 

[Gunmetalgray]

Opened the door for police & killed by police.
Didn't open the door for police & killed by police.

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

Giffords weighing in.

 

[maxipum]

He's not a passing LEO. He's knocking and announcing himself in response to a domestic complaint.

How would you expect a passing LEO to react to you if you drew a gun as you passed him on the sidewalk at arm's length?

The point is that asking a LEO not to respond to this action is asking them to take an extreme risk with their life based on nothing but negative information about the person holding the gun.

Apples and oranges, the man was inside his home. Was there a victim of domestic abuse? Was there a history of domestic abuse at that address? I’m sure that info was available to the officer right? If I’m on the sidewalk in public and I go for my weapon in front of an officer then yeah it’s on. In my home without evidence of a crime then Hell no. Who made the complaint? Someone inside the home? No a passerby did with no evidence or context from what is shown.

 

[Creedmoor]

He's not a passing LEO. He's knocking and announcing himself in response to a domestic complaint.

How would you expect a passing LEO to react to you if you drew a gun as you passed him on the sidewalk at arm's length?

The point is that asking a LEO not to respond to this action is asking them to take an extreme risk with their life based on nothing but negative information about the person holding the gun.

How about we ask LE to hold themselves to the same protocols, as we do our own Armed Services members while deployed in other countries before they can return fire? Seems it pays about 4 times the money to start, as a LEO in Indy than a USMC Corporal makes.

 

[Destro]

How about we ask LE to hold themselves to the same protocols, as we do our own Armed Services members while deployed in other countries before they can return fire? Seems it pays about 4 times the money to start, as a LEO in Indy than a USMC Corporal makes.

Having done both jobs, your logic is incompatible.

 

[Destro]

So are there going to be any retracted statements by the first several INGOers after watching the video, or is everyone still taking Ben Crump's word as gospel? It got quiet in here all the sudden.

 

[Ark]

Apples and oranges, the man was inside his home. Was there a victim of domestic abuse? Was there a history of domestic abuse at that address? I’m sure that info was available to the officer right? If I’m on the sidewalk in public and I go for my weapon in front of an officer then yeah it’s on. In my home without evidence of a crime then Hell no. Who made the complaint? Someone inside the home? No a passerby did with no evidence or context from what is shown.

There was a report of a domestic incident at that address, which was the entire reason a police officer was there in the first place. Do you not want police to respond to calls at people's homes anymore? Is a police officer less dead if they get shot through someone's door than they are if they get shot on the sidewalk?

How about we ask LE to hold themselves to the same protocols, as we do our own Armed Services members while deployed in other countries before they can return fire? Seems it pays about 4 times the money to start, as a LEO in Indy than a USMC Corporal makes.

Police aren't military, this is a dead end, non sequitur argument. Armed services members are allowed to use drones to murder oblivious people from ambush based on patterns of movement or unaccountable intelligence decisions.