Capitalism is so broken it can’t be fixed

[hornadylnl]

Capitalizm is repairable, it's just the US Government does not want to do the repairs.

Capitalism isn't repairable because the people don't want it. Witness all the anti gouging tripe posted by those who don't trust others to take care of themselves.

 

[88GT]

So if someone you cared about was in danger and someone said they could save them but it would cost you everything, you'd have nothing but your loved one would be safe. That is taking advantage of you in a unique situation where you feel you don't really have a choice.

You've got the wrong 'c' word. That's coercion, not capitalism. There is no force or threat of force in capitalism or it is, by definition, NOT capitalism.

Another good question, I'm more arguing against the hypocrisy .. Those who scream that capitalism is the best are the same ones screaming for the government to leave us alone so that we can self regulate. When in-fact it is the government regulations that make capitalism possible. there is no room for extreme liberals that feel government should control everything just like there is no room for extreme conservatives that feel the government has no place in regulating us. Sure we can all believe what we want, that's a right afforded to us by our government and our government is not perfect but its the best one out there. unless some of you would rather move to another country??

With the exception of limiting monopolies (because, by definition, capitalism cannot exist without competition), I see absolutely no need for government in my economic transactions. None. What. So. Ever.

No you don't have to feel sorry for anyone, it's kind of like my comment above about hording food and who to help. If your best friend said he wanted an AR and you had one that you wanted to sell him, would you sell it to him at what we would consider "normal market value" or "AWB Scare" prices?

There is no such thing as "normal market value." There is no normal because market value is determined by the willingness of a buyer to pay X and the willingness of the seller to let it go for X. And that fluctuates across time depending on the factors both buyers and sellers consider in their decision-making process.

Ten years ago, all else being equal, the market value of a home was higher than the market value of the home today. Ten years before that, the market value was lower than it was 10 years ago. Which was the normal market value?

Value is a subjective factor. And the only opinions that matter on the topic of value are the buyer's and the seller's. Not some third party who wants to control the transaction based on his opinion of the value of the item up for sale.

haha .. have I interfered with you or any of your transactions in any way??

You want to. You want the government to step in an decide whether his motives for selling at X are morally acceptable or not. Just like people who want to pass laws prohibited behavior that causes no harm and/or has no victim simply because it violates their moral code.


The problem, as I see it, though some may disagree, in this discussion is the working definition of capitalism. Capitalism is the natural order of exchange between two people. We have scientific laws. Capitalism is an economic one. It's not a system that is manipulated. It's a phenomenon that occurs. It isn't something that people DO, it's something that HAPPENS.

It isn't capitalism if there's no competition. It isn't capitalism if there's coercion. It isn't capitalism if there's manipulation of information to limit one party's knowledge.

The problem with capitalism is that we don't have enough of it.

 

[Hohn]

The problem with capitalism is that we don't have enough of it.

FTW!

 

[actaeon277]

88GT said value is relative.
How many times have you seen water bottles thrown away with water still in it.
It's just water.
But not to a man in the desert.

 

[CarmelHP]

The problem, as I see it, though some may disagree, in this discussion is the working definition of capitalism. Capitalism is the natural order of exchange between two people. We have scientific laws. Capitalism is an economic one. It's not a system that is manipulated. It's a phenomenon that occurs. It isn't something that people DO, it's something that HAPPENS.

This is most important. Capitalism is like gravity, it simply is. It can be defied and manipulated to some extent with effort but it will endure. It's the natural default state to which man must always return.

 

[rambone]

Here are a couple of threads by Fletch on Capitalism. There is a lot to be learned in these discussions.


In Defense of Capitalism

Why Capitalism is Worth Defending

 

[mbills2223]

Just go back and read all posts by mrjarrell, hornaday, 88GT, and rambone in this thread, and then pretend that I quoted them all here with a

 

[Fletch]

There is no such thing as price gouging.

 

[sgtonory]

Pure capitalism is not possible without the regulation of government.

Joke?

 

[88GT]

Just go back and read all posts by mrjarrell, hornaday, 88GT, and rambone in this thread, and then pretend that I quoted them all here with a

Now I'm starting to get worried.

 

[CarmelHP]

There is no such thing as price gouging.

No, in the absence of coercion, and "coercion" does not equal "really need it bad." A willing buyer and willing seller sets the price. In the absence of this mechanism, you can't get what you want or sell what you have. For example, the supply of guns are artificially lowered by govt. decree or threats or such. Without the seller and buyer being able to set a price or "price gouge," a seller will simply not offer a sale because he can't get a agreeable price on a possibly irreplaceable item. Shortages then occur, or, more accurately, shortages occur in the "white market," while a black market springs up which factors in the factors of inability to replace the item and dodging the govt. attempts to control the market.

 

[roisigns]

How about if a man falls down a well and the man at the top wants to sell him a rope to get out for $100 that normally sells for $40? Would that be gouging?

 

[CarmelHP]

How about if a man falls down a well and the man at the top wants to sell him a rope to get out for $100 that normally sells for $40? Would that be gouging?

And you would have government limit the rope to $40 and nobody shows up to sell it, which apparently includes delivery and effecting the rescue? And you think that's better, why?

 

[roisigns]

I suggested no remedy and did not recommend govt intervention. I am a small gov't person.

I just wondered if my example constitutes gouging or not?

 

[88GT]

How about if a man falls down a well and the man at the top wants to sell him a rope to get out for $100 that normally sells for $40? Would that be gouging?

Let's change the tack a bit. Let's define price gouging first.

 

[Fletch]

I suggested no remedy and did not recommend govt intervention. I am a small gov't person.

I just wondered if my example constitutes gouging or not?

"Price gouging", as used colloquially, indicates/implies that some crime is being committed vis-a-vis the asking price for a good or service. It is my/our assertion that no crime can be committed in this regard. The seller offers the good or service for sale, and states his asking price. Potential buyers are free to negotiate the final sale price or to disregard the offer.

If in fact a crime is being committed, government intervention must surely follow as the remedy. If no crime is being committed, then you simply have a disagreement as to the value of the good or service being offered, and the entire conversation is moot.

 

[CarmelHP]

I suggested no remedy and did not recommend govt intervention. I am a small gov't person.

I just wondered if my example constitutes gouging or not?

No, he's free to refuse on the price and is in no worse condition than before. A rope salesman doesn't have a duty to rescue everyone who falls in a well.

 

[Fletch]

No, he's free to refuse on the price and is in no worse condition than before. A rope salesman doesn't have a duty to rescue everyone who falls in a well.

Put another way, what is being sold is not a $40 rope for $100. What is being sold is rescue from potentially dying in a well for $100.

 

[roisigns]

"Price gouging", as used colloquially, indicates/implies that some crime is being committed vis-a-vis the asking price for a good or service. .

So, if the gov't imposed a price freeze, the selling of the good above that price would constitute gouging?

Disclaimer: I do not endorse price freezing. I'm just seeking to exercise my grey matter. I have an MBA, not a law degree.

 

[ruger17hmr]

It suddenly occurred to me that there is a great similarity between 'Freedom' and 'Capitalism' in that both contains implicit 'do-no-harm' within, which warrants a certain set of rules. Perhaps only because we are Human!