Capitalism is so broken it can’t be fixed

[fallenangel1]

Who better than you to save them?

Those who chose to ignore the gun market are no more deserving of my sympathy than those who choose to ignore the concepts of making a living to provide for themselves. I've must of read 10 sob stories on INGO alone about how they were saving all their pennies to buy an AR. They were 50 cents away and Sandy Hook came along. Now they'll never be able to afford one and damn all those greedy hoarders and price gougers. But I bet if I went to the homes of those poor and downtrodden who'll never get the opportunity of buying their dream rifle, I could find all kinds of ARs laying around in the form of iPods, iPads, computers, flat screen tv's, xboxs, etc. apparently that rifle wasn't that important to them that all these other wants took precedence. And I'm supposed to feel sorry for them?

No you don't have to feel sorry for anyone, it's kind of like my comment above about hording food and who to help. If your best friend said he wanted an AR and you had one that you wanted to sell him, would you sell it to him at what we would consider "normal market value" or "AWB Scare" prices?

Personally if its my best friend and I had one that I wanted him to have I may just give it to him or sell it at cost, AWB prices be damned.

As for strangers, i don't really see myself WANTING to give someone I dont know an AR. :P

As for people that have tons of other expensive toys laying around while they cry about not being able to buy an AR now. I think its human nature to want things that we cannot have. An average Joe on here may have wanted an AR but didnt want to spend $1k but now that the are harder to find and we had the AWB scare and now they are 2-3x the price and there comes the sob story, "I coulda bought one last week for 450 and a box of cookies!!" that's just them being whiny. I personally want some 9mm handguns.. but I'm ok with waiting until the prices settle. I don't think that anyone owes me anything although I still moan and groan when someone tries to sell me a used weapon $100 over MSRP. Especially when there are brand new ones available for below MSRP.

It all gets back to my statement earlier .. there is no black and white .. it's all a grey area and we make choices based on what we feel is right or wrong in that situation. We may make one choice on Monday and make a different choice if faced with the same situation on Wednesday.

 

[dross]

No you don't have to feel sorry for anyone, it's kind of like my comment above about hording food and who to help. If your best friend said he wanted an AR and you had one that you wanted to sell him, would you sell it to him at what we would consider "normal market value" or "AWB Scare" prices?

Personally if its my best friend and I had one that I wanted him to have I may just give it to him or sell it at cost, AWB prices be damned.

As for strangers, i don't really see myself WANTING to give someone I dont know an AR. :P

As for people that have tons of other expensive toys laying around while they cry about not being able to buy an AR now. I think its human nature to want things that we cannot have. An average Joe on here may have wanted an AR but didnt want to spend $1k but now that the are harder to find and we had the AWB scare and now they are 2-3x the price and there comes the sob story, "I coulda bought one last week for 450 and a box of cookies!!" that's just them being whiny. I personally want some 9mm handguns.. but I'm ok with waiting until the prices settle. I don't think that anyone owes me anything although I still moan and groan when someone tries to sell me a used weapon $100 over MSRP. Especially when there are brand new ones available for below MSRP.

It all gets back to my statement earlier .. there is no black and white .. it's all a grey area and we make choices based on what we feel is right or wrong in that situation. We may make one choice on Monday and make a different choice if faced with the same situation on Wednesday.

If your friend wanted to buy your house and it had increased in market value by 20K, would you sell it to him at current market value, or "normal" value?

 

[fallenangel1]

If your friend wanted to buy your house and it had increased in market value by 20K, would you sell it to him at current market value, or "normal" value?

Obviously it depends on my financial standing, if I were well enough off that I had multiple homes and didn't need that house or the money from it to buy a new home I'd sell it to him as cheap as possible. If this person is my best friend then they are like family to me and I take care of my own. So it's not necessarily a good judge of how I would react in these situations. Its no different than the food hoarding scenario, I would take care of those that I care about. If I had a plentiful supply I may be more generous with acquaintances. But if I don't know you and/or didn't care for you and/or supply was limited I would be a little more withholding.

See once again.. it's never this or that.. there is no real right or wrong answer. there are always multiple factors and that is what makes things gray instead of black and white.

 

[hornadylnl]

No you don't have to feel sorry for anyone, it's kind of like my comment above about hording food and who to help. If your best friend said he wanted an AR and you had one that you wanted to sell him, would you sell it to him at what we would consider "normal market value" or "AWB Scare" prices?

Personally if its my best friend and I had one that I wanted him to have I may just give it to him or sell it at cost, AWB prices be damned.

As for strangers, i don't really see myself WANTING to give someone I dont know an AR. :P

As for people that have tons of other expensive toys laying around while they cry about not being able to buy an AR now. I think its human nature to want things that we cannot have. An average Joe on here may have wanted an AR but didnt want to spend $1k but now that the are harder to find and we had the AWB scare and now they are 2-3x the price and there comes the sob story, "I coulda bought one last week for 450 and a box of cookies!!" that's just them being whiny. I personally want some 9mm handguns.. but I'm ok with waiting until the prices settle. I don't think that anyone owes me anything although I still moan and groan when someone tries to sell me a used weapon $100 over MSRP. Especially when there are brand new ones available for below MSRP.

It all gets back to my statement earlier .. there is no black and white .. it's all a grey area and we make choices based on what we feel is right or wrong in that situation. We may make one choice on Monday and make a different choice if faced with the same situation on Wednesday.

I have a few ARs. My brother was never interested in guns until this scare and was scrambling to buy one. He's not asked but I'm not selling one to him at normal or panic price. If the zombie hordes were at our doors, I'd toss him a rifle and some ammo. But I don't owe him a damned thing. If I were to sell him or anyone else one at a normal price because of their need, what's going to happen when the excitement wears off? Are they going to sell it? If so, just how bad did they really need it?

I have roughly 15k of 22 ammo and u haven't bought any in 4 years. I probably haven't shot 200 rounds of it in that 4 years. Enter the guy who has $1000 to spend on one of those fancy tacticool AR 22's. he blows $980 on the rifle and accessories and uses that last $20 to buy a wallyworld bulk pack. Now, he's crying because I'm a hoarder and he can't find 22 ammo. He could have bought a $200 10/22 that will do everything his tacticool AR22 will do and had $750 left over to buy ammo. Sorry, not the least bit of sympathy on my part. I'll keep my ammo and not even offer him a box at $50.

 

[hornadylnl]

Obviously it depends on my financial standing, if I were well enough off that I had multiple homes and didn't need that house or the money from it to buy a new home I'd sell it to him as cheap as possible. If this person is my best friend then they are like family to me and I take care of my own. So it's not necessarily a good judge of how I would react in these situations. Its no different than the food hoarding scenario, I would take care of those that I care about. If I had a plentiful supply I may be more generous with acquaintances. But if I don't know you and/or didn't care for you and/or supply was limited I would be a little more withholding.

See once again.. it's never this or that.. there is no real right or wrong answer. there are always multiple factors and that is what makes things gray instead of black and white.

Is t that exactly what tte evil gougers are doing? Deciding who they want to offer their charity and who they don't? If your friend expects you to give them the $20k discount, they're entitled and not your friend. I make the choice of what I want to sell at. Your perceived need or desire or relationship to me has no entitlement. I may choose to offer the $20k discount or not or somewhere inbetween. I don't owe you anything and to call me a gouged if I choose not to makes you entitled.

 

[fallenangel1]

I have a few ARs. My brother was never interested in guns until this scare and was scrambling to buy one. He's not asked but I'm not selling one to him at normal or panic price. If the zombie hordes were at our doors, I'd toss him a rifle and some ammo. But I don't owe him a damned thing. If I were to sell him or anyone else one at a normal price because of their need, what's going to happen when the excitement wears off? Are they going to sell it? If so, just how bad did they really need it?

I have roughly 15k of 22 ammo and u haven't bought any in 4 years. I probably haven't shot 200 rounds of it in that 4 years. Enter the guy who has $1000 to spend on one of those fancy tacticool AR 22's. he blows $980 on the rifle and accessories and uses that last $20 to buy a wallyworld bulk pack. Now, he's crying because I'm a hoarder and he can't find 22 ammo. He could have bought a $200 10/22 that will do everything his tacticool AR22 will do and had $750 left over to buy ammo. Sorry, not the least bit of sympathy on my part. I'll keep my ammo and not even offer him a box at $50.

Haha .. i love the word tacticool .. it always makes me smile. But that tacticool fella is just some Joe Blow off the street. I don't see any reason you'd have to sell or pay any special mind to him whatsoever. So let him deal with his rationed ammo from wallyworld. I see nothing wrong with that.

As for your brother, i don't know, maybe that's just a difference in how close you two are or a difference in upbringing .. Its not good or bad. Maybe I'm the dumb one because I'd give my brother one and we aren't even that close.

 

[fallenangel1]

Is t that exactly what tte evil gougers are doing? Deciding who they want to offer their charity and who they don't? If your friend expects you to give them the $20k discount, they're entitled and not your friend. I make the choice of what I want to sell at. Your perceived need or desire or relationship to me has no entitlement. I may choose to offer the $20k discount or not or somewhere inbetween. I don't owe you anything and to call me a gouged if I choose not to makes you entitled.

Id only argue that a gouger doesn't choose who they offer discounts to.. they are only out to take advantage and therefore they'd overcharge everyone indiscriminately.

 

[dross]

Obviously it depends on my financial standing, if I were well enough off that I had multiple homes and didn't need that house or the money from it to buy a new home I'd sell it to him as cheap as possible. If this person is my best friend then they are like family to me and I take care of my own. So it's not necessarily a good judge of how I would react in these situations. Its no different than the food hoarding scenario, I would take care of those that I care about. If I had a plentiful supply I may be more generous with acquaintances. But if I don't know you and/or didn't care for you and/or supply was limited I would be a little more withholding.

See once again.. it's never this or that.. there is no real right or wrong answer. there are always multiple factors and that is what makes things gray instead of black and white.

You are approaching the market like religion. You want to set rules for other people based on your moral values and on their intent and personal circumstances.

You don't have the right to judge for others. YOU are the problem with capitalism, because you want to impose your values on the market.

Back away and let the market be the beautiful thing it is. Two people agree upon a price. If they can't agree, they both walk away the same as they came in. If they do agree on a price, they both walk away better than before.

Let THEM and THEIR values dictate their transaction, and you keep out of it. Let you values guide your transactions, and let mine guide mine.

Or in the words of a common bumper sticker in my neck of the woods, "Focus on your own damned family."

 

[hornadylnl]

Haha .. i love the word tacticool .. it always makes me smile. But that tacticool fella is just some Joe Blow off the street. I don't see any reason you'd have to sell or pay any special mind to him whatsoever. So let him deal with his rationed ammo from wallyworld. I see nothing wrong with that.

As for your brother, i don't know, maybe that's just a difference in how close you two are or a difference in upbringing .. Its not good or bad. Maybe I'm the dumb one because I'd give my brother one and we aren't even that close.

All buyers today are in that same boat. The opportunity was there and they chose to put their money elsewhere.

 

[fallenangel1]

You are approaching the market like religion. You want to set rules for other people based on your moral values and on their intent and personal circumstances.

You don't have the right to judge for others. YOU are the problem with capitalism, because you want to impose your values on the market.

Back away and let the market be the beautiful thing it is. Two people agree upon a price. If they can't agree, they both walk away the same as they came in. If they do agree on a price, they both walk away better than before.

Let THEM and THEIR values dictate their transaction, and you keep out of it. Let you values guide your transactions, and let mine guide mine.

Or in the words of a common bumper sticker in my neck of the woods, "Focus on your own damned family."

haha .. have I interfered with you or any of your transactions in any way?? If sharing my opinion on an open platform is bothering you that's fine I'm not sorry one bit. If you don't like my opinion you can move on and read the next thread. I'm not forcing my values or morals upon anyone else. I'm just stating my thoughts and responses to direct comments on a public forum. So if you don't like that you can go "focus on your own damned family" and leave the public forums to those of us who are able and willing to accept that people do and will always have different thoughts and opinions.

 

[fallenangel1]

All buyers today are in that same boat. The opportunity was there and they chose to put their money elsewhere.

That may be true .. some people may have just needed a slight nudge to raise their awareness. But just because someone just now became interested in weapons doesn't make them any better or worse than a collector/shooter that's been at it for 20 yrs. Sadly the incidents that increased their awareness also increased everyone elses and stuck them in the worst time to try and get into shooting. That in itself is just bad timing.

 

[dross]

haha .. have I interfered with you or any of your transactions in any way?? If sharing my opinion on an open platform is bothering you that's fine I'm not sorry one bit. If you don't like my opinion you can move on and read the next thread. I'm not forcing my values or morals upon anyone else. I'm just stating my thoughts and responses to direct comments on a public forum. So if you don't like that you can go "focus on your own damned family" and leave the public forums to those of us who are able and willing to accept that people do and will always have different thoughts and opinions.

So, I got a little personal with you and you got a little huffy. Am I forcing you to change your speech? Yet you don't like it one bit when I criticize your use of your freedom of speech, do you?

Back at you for your criticism of the freedom of the market.

 

[BogWalker]

It's a sad fact the sport is so expensive for newcomers, but it is possible to make do. People can ask what they want. If the newcomers just didn't pay the ridiculous prices the prices wouldn't be ridiculous. As it is the market will bear whatever price people are willing to pay. The prices will be normal again once people stop paying the current increased asking prices.

I'm biding my time with Mosins and their still cheap ammo. When supply comes back and prices lower I can afford to feed my AK. As it stands I'm out of x39 due to poor timing. My own fault, so I'll wait for prices to go where I want to pay.

The market bends to the will of the pocketbook. Not the other way around. The sooner people realize that the sooner pricing goes back down.

 

[hornadylnl]

That may be true .. some people may have just needed a slight nudge to raise their awareness. But just because someone just now became interested in weapons doesn't make them any better or worse than a collector/shooter that's been at it for 20 yrs. Sadly the incidents that increased their awareness also increased everyone elses and stuck them in the worst time to try and get into shooting. That in itself is just bad timing.

True, but it doesn't absolve them from market forces like you and they think it should. You can claim that your opinion isn't affecting the market but it is. I and others who might have sold for a 20% profit here are not selling at all or higher profits elsewhere due to the constant claims of gouging. Because of people like you, I'm not selling anything when I could be offering more to the market. I'm hardly alone. If crying produced guns and ammo, we'd all have 10 arsenals each.

 

[fallenangel1]

So, I got a little personal with you and you got a little huffy. Am I forcing you to change your speech? Yet you don't like it one bit when I criticize your use of your freedom of speech, do you?

Back at you for your criticism of the freedom of the market.

Well I wasnt getting huffy, i was mimicking you being huffy.. Thats why i put a on my post. the point was .. You told me to stay out of your affairs when I wasnt in them. I have not directed any posts at you or your sales directly. So I thought it was a bit odd of you to tell me to mind my own business.

True, but it doesn't absolve them from market forces like you and they think it should. You can claim that your opinion isn't affecting the market but it is. I and others who might have sold for a 20% profit here are not selling at all or higher profits elsewhere due to the constant claims of gouging. Because of people like you, I'm not selling anything when I could be offering more to the market. I'm hardly alone. If crying produced guns and ammo, we'd all have 10 arsenals each.

I'm sorry for you, but I am glad, those of us who are speaking up are just raising awareness and helping to inform new buyers just to sit back .. and wait it out .. that they don't have to buy right this second.. there will still be firearms to buy in a few months and they will be priced a lot better than they are now. If what you say is true the fewer people like myself speak up the longer the prices would have stayed high and (IMHO) unreasonable. Because of our efforts prices will settle sooner and we can all get back to more buying and shooting!

 

[hornadylnl]

Well I wasnt getting huffy, i was mimicking you being huffy.. Thats why i put a on my post. the point was .. You told me to stay out of your affairs when I wasnt in them. I have not directed any posts at you or your sales directly. So I thought it was a bit odd of you to tell me to mind my own business.



I'm sorry for you, but I am glad, those of us who are speaking up are just raising awareness and helping to inform new buyers just to sit back .. and wait it out .. that they don't have to buy right this second.. there will still be firearms to buy in a few months and they will be priced a lot better than they are now. If what you say is true the fewer people like myself speak up the longer the prices would have stayed high and (IMHO) unreasonable. Because of our efforts prices will settle sooner and we can all get back to more buying and shooting!

Keep telling yourself that. It's nice knowing you think it's your duty to take care of those who are too stupid to take care of themselves. I'm sure you'll be front and center to take the blame should a ban pass and the stupid no longer have the opportunity to buy.

 

[fallenangel1]

Keep telling yourself that. It's nice knowing you think it's your duty to take care of those who are too stupid to take care of themselves. I'm sure you'll be front and center to take the blame should a ban pass and the stupid no longer have the opportunity to buy.

What does educating buyers about prices have to do with taking the blame for a ban??

 

[hornadylnl]

What does educating buyers about prices have to do with taking the blame for a ban??

You're telling buyers to wait it out because the prices will go down and there'll be availability in the future. What if there's a ban? What if the prices only go up? You're offering the advice and what if they act on it and it backfires? You aren't willing to back up your advice or take responsibilty if you're wrong?

Sure, bookers and blow aren't wise things for my neighbor to spend money on. But it's his money and none of my damn business. Why is a gun sale you're not a part of any of your business?

 

[lashicoN]

If your best friend said he wanted an AR and you had one that you wanted to sell him, would you sell it to him at what we would consider "normal market value" or "AWB Scare" prices?

It depends. Not everything is black and white. If I had been harping on him to buy one because of all the warning signs I had seen, and he decided to buy a second TV while I was buying parts to build my rifle, then I wouldn't sell it to him at all, because I bought it for my own family's defense.

Hypothetically, if I had five or six rifles along with the rest of my collection, then I would likely trade my friend in need for something of his that I equally needed or wanted.

Realistically, my friend has a nice Saiga .308 that I would love to buy from him. I wouldn't dream of asking him to sell it to me for what he paid a few years back. It's worth more now, because other people are willing to pay more for it now. If he was trying to sell it and I offered him $700 and someone else offered him $1400, what kind of jerk friend would I be if I let him pass up that kind of money, even if I needed it? If I truly needed that rifle, I could have bought one when he did. Instead, I bought a PLR-16. Anyone want it for $50,000.00?

Normal market value depends on the supply of the product and the demand for the product. What's the normal market value of a KSG? I've never seen one for MSRP, so how "normal" is it?

 

[Project972]

who is the 10 day rats for 14 million for? i have my own idea,not sure.