NYT proves it! White privilege is "real"

[Kutnupe14]

Thats a big "if"

my head is not in the sand or any other area
telling me that I can not see someone else's plight because I'm too priveledged to see it is like I said.....ignorant and trying to justify themselves and their agenda

You head is in the sand, as you don't understand the issue, and apparently the topic has struck a nerve.

 

[The Bubba Effect]

Australia? I assume you mean America. As for you being suspicious of black people, one would ask if you are black, or if the bus driver in the story you related was black. Black people are much more likely to commit violent crime.... against other blacks. And white people are much more likely to commit violent crime.... against other whites. The odds are MUCH higher that you will be a victim of crime perpetrated by a white person than a black. So, bears the question, are you more suspicious of whites or blacks?

I don't know about being suspicious, but I have a harder time reading black people from the city than i do white people from the country. I have spent more time around white country boys, so when I stop by the gas and dash and there are five young hillbillys hanging out front, I can somewhat tell by the way they are dressed and accessorized if they are just some kids getting some cokes before going catfishing or if they are a group of methheads, likely to be trouble. If I rollup on the same store and there are five young urban black men outside, I don't have enough experience in the culture to make a bet on whether they are the high school Junior Engineering team or trouble looking for more trouble. I am going to be more on my guard there.

It's like being dropped off in any other foreign environment, if you suddenly found yourself in a strange chinese city, you would not know how to read a crowd the way the locals do, you would not be able to tell that one guy's shoes are expensive and favored by a particular gang and that a certain emblem on a shirt meant these other guys were members of a charitable religious order.

I don't think that is striclty racial though, more cultural. I get a pretty good read on southern Indiana rural black folks and I have a harder time with white urban folks, but black urban folks are two layers of cultural obfuscation for me to deal with so they are hard for me to read. If I can't read a group, it makes me more cautious of them.

I think it might be more proper to call that xenophobia than racism.

 

[Shiver]

I am a fan of Asian women. And I would feel very privileged to have one of them as a girlfriend. That is all I have left to to add to this thread.

 

[Kutnupe14]

To All,

I believe part of the problem is the term "white privilege." It isn't about white folks being given a special handout or leg up. It is about the fact that nothing has been done to impede our progress due to the colour of our skin.

If you are white in America you or your recent ancestors have not been stopped from buying a home, based solely upon the colour of your skin. This has happened to minorities.
If you are white in America your recent ancestors were not denied entrance to any school they wanted, based solely upon the colour of their skin. This has happened to minorities.
If you are white in America your recent ancestors were not forced to sit somewhere else on a bus or in a restaurant, based solely upon the colour of their skin.
If you are white in America you or or recent ancestors have not been denied employment, based solely upon the colour of your skin.

In all of these things we may have been denied something I have listed from above, but it wasn't due to the colour of our skin.

The list above could go on and on, but I think you get the point. There are millions of white Americans born with nothing or next to nothing that have overcome tremendous odds and pulled themselves up by the bootstraps to become successful. They have earned the right to be proud of their achievements. The point of "white privilege" is that the white colour of skin was never an impediment to that success. We, and our recent ancestors, have been allowed to chase the "American Dream" without worrying about whether or not we could get the job, go to the school, buy a home we could afford, due to the colour of our skin. We HAVE HAD other issues to worry about, but issues due to skin colour have not been one of them.

As a story my parents bought a home in Fort Wayne off of North Anthony just a few blocks north of Lake Avenue. On the opposite corner was the home of the first "black family" to move in back in the 1960's. The story goes that the realtor screwed up, because the gentleman that bought the home had a "white name" and was a licensed medical doctor. Well, imagine the ruckus when he finally came to the neighborhood. There was actually a petition signed by many seeking to deny him the ability to buy a home he could afford. They claimed home prices would fall if coloured folks were allowed to move in. The petition failed, he moved in, and several white families moved away. How many white folks have experienced this in the last 60 years based solely upon the colour of their skin? How would that have made him and his wife feel?

---

Now, I am going to shift gears and throw out an idea that this is FAR bigger than America. There was a political science professor who had the following question for students. Imagine that I have a machine that can go anywhere on earth at any time. I can change your skin pigmentation and your sex. I am going to pick you up and drop you off somewhere and somewhen from about 2,000BC to modern day. I won't tell you where or when you are going to be. You could be anywhere, anytime in the world. As you don't know where and when you will be, what race and sex would you choose?

The sex question is easy. Male. No matter where or when you are dropped women have gotten the short end of the stick for social mobility and rights from the dawn of civilization until just recently. Even now, women can speak to issues of respect and upward mobility.

So now we come to race. Inevitably, if you don't know where or when you are going to be dropped in to live the rest of your life, white is probably the safest - even in Africa! Sure, there have been limited times and places where you wouldn't want to be a white man, but overall white has the greatest chance of success. Whites went into the orient without issues due to skin colour. Whites went into Africa without issues due to skin colour. On and on it goes, with limited exceptions, whites have been tolerated while failing to reciprocate with equal tolerance.

As to the why? I'd have to ask a social anthropologist what it is about Europeans that have made them a very boot print on the world while being very intolerant of diversity. Maybe Christianity had something to do with it? Maybe it was their constant struggle with each other for resources? I don't know. What I do know is that racism is NOT owned by the American culture, but boy did we carry it to a level beyond where many did before.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing that one exists. Does "white privilege" exist today in America? I would say yes. Studies I saw conducted in the recent past showed several college students all applying for the same job. Some white, some black. A mix of males and females both. The kids were all given nearly equal resumes and practiced answering questions as close to one another as possible. The whites got the job offers at a higher rate than the blacks. Here is a brief list of five (5) studies that cover different issues of racism in America: 5 Studies That Prove Racism Is Still Way Worse Than We Think | Cracked.com

Now, how to solve the problem? That is a difficult question. For me, the easiest way is to simply speak up when I hear or see something I perceive near me as racist. I will let people know I don't like certain racial epithets. I will let people know I don't appreciate degrading treatment of someone who is a minority. The other thing I try to do is just listen. Where I work I have driven a client who's grandmother was an actual slave during the civil war! This client is very old and her grandmother was old when the client was a child, but stories were passed on. I believe sometimes just empathizing and trying to understand is a big step in the right direction.

Regards,

Doug

Youre way more elegant getting the point across than I. You fully understand, and as I have noticed, a number of others.

 

[D-Ric902]

You head is in the sand, as you don't understand the issue, and apparently the topic has struck a nerve.

Nice dodge
I don't understnd the issue of my white privilege

Ignorance or agenda
I see where your coming from

 

[Kutnupe14]

Nice dodge
I don't understnd the issue of my white privilege

Ignorance or agenda
I see where your coming from

At least we agree

 

[SSGSAD]

I keep looking for my privilege,
havent found it yet

^^^^^ THIS ^^^^^

 

[ruger1800]

Ain't nothin in life fair, never gonna be fair, get on with your own life and get over it.

Myself and entire family and many friends have been screwed out of opportunities, and promotions because of affirmative action.
Was ok with it for years, thought it would help people get a leg up, well it ain't working, don't think it ever will.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Ain't nothin in life fair, never gonna be fair, get on with your own life and get over it.

Myself and entire family and many friends have been screwed out of opportunities, and promotions because of affirmative action.
Was ok with it for years, thought it would help people get a leg up, well it ain't working, don't think it ever will.

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this exactly? Seems a lot of people have been the victims of affirmative action here on INGO, which I find odd. Is it possible that you guys just weren't better qualified, or fit into the company's image like the guy they took for the position?
Most of the time when people cite affirmative action (or the reverse) as the reason they didn't get something, I tend to believe that's probably their excuse to make them feel better.

 

[SSGSAD]

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this exactly? Seems a lot of people have been the victims of affirmative action here on INGO, which I find odd. Is it possible that you guys just weren't better qualified, or fit into the company's image like the guy they took for the position?
Most of the time when people cite affirmative action (or the reverse) as the reason they didn't get something, I tend to believe that's probably their excuse to make them feel better.

I can answer this for you, but I don't want to be banned .....

 

[churchmouse]

I can answer this for you, but I don't want to be banned .....

Me either.

There is a lot that we can not discuss in open forum. Not to slam or bash but just discuss. I have seen both sides of this issue. I have discussed this issue with both "Sides"

It will take a long time to get it right if it ever can be.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Okay, so what should be done in all of these situations? Of course I'm going to make the choices you think I'm going to make.

I think the point is to be aware of the inherent bias and ignore it in your decision making as much as possible. It requires some self-awareness as we all have prejudices we aren't aware of. For example, if you are traveling abroad and meet another American you will likely have more of an affinity for them than natives in a similar situation. They are familiar and comfortable. People you wouldn't look at twice back home are your bestest friend for a bit.

So, bears the question, are you more suspicious of whites or blacks?

Personally? Neither. How someone presents themselves, body language, how they dress, etc. makes much more of an impact with me. Age makes a huge impact in how likely I am to trust someone. Even as skeptical "prove it" as I am, for someone who looks like grandpa/grandma its tough for me to be suspicious.

I am a fan of Asian women. And I would feel very privileged to have one of them as a girlfriend. That is all I have left to to add to this thread.

They are surprisingly normal in my limited experience. Sorry.

That does bring up an interesting question, though.

Who has more 'privilege' when dealing with general society:

A)

OR

B)

Seriously, which prejudice do you think is more prevalent in society?

I'm guessing A is at a disadvantage at any job interview. I'm guessing if B's car needs a jump she's going to have a pretty easy time getting it done even if the guy has to buy jumper cables while A better have roadside assist.

 

[gentlemen]

Australia? I assume you mean America.

The article cited bus drivers in Australia.

As for you being suspicious of black people, one would ask if you are black, or if the bus driver in the story you related was black. Black people are much more likely to commit violent crime.... against other blacks. And white people are much more likely to commit violent crime.... against other whites. The odds are MUCH higher that you will be a victim of crime perpetrated by a white person than a black. So, bears the question, are you more suspicious of whites or blacks?

These are all true statements. But it's about population percentage. I am more likely to be a victim of crime at the hands of a white man, because men whites make up 63% of the population.

Alas, per capita crime is what matters, and all that matters, because we are talking about dealing with reactions to specific individuals. Per capita, I am more likely to be assaulted or robbed or by a black man versus a white man by a staggering percentage. Therefore, it seems to me to be reasonable to take this variable into account when going about my daily life. No?

To All,

I believe part of the problem is the term "white privilege." It isn't about white folks being given a special handout or leg up. It is about the fact that nothing has been done to impede our progress due to the colour of our skin.

If you are white in America you or your recent ancestors have not been stopped from buying a home, based solely upon the colour of your skin. This has happened to minorities.
If you are white in America your recent ancestors were not denied entrance to any school they wanted, based solely upon the colour of their skin. This has happened to minorities.
If you are white in America your recent ancestors were not forced to sit somewhere else on a bus or in a restaurant, based solely upon the colour of their skin.
If you are white in America you or or recent ancestors have not been denied employment, based solely upon the colour of your skin.

In all of these things we may have been denied something I have listed from above, but it wasn't due to the colour of our skin.

The list above could go on and on, but I think you get the point. There are millions of white Americans born with nothing or next to nothing that have overcome tremendous odds and pulled themselves up by the bootstraps to become successful. They have earned the right to be proud of their achievements. The point of "white privilege" is that the white colour of skin was never an impediment to that success. We, and our recent ancestors, have been allowed to chase the "American Dream" without worrying about whether or not we could get the job, go to the school, buy a home we could afford, due to the colour of our skin. We HAVE HAD other issues to worry about, but issues due to skin colour have not been one of them.

As a story my parents bought a home in Fort Wayne off of North Anthony just a few blocks north of Lake Avenue. On the opposite corner was the home of the first "black family" to move in back in the 1960's. The story goes that the realtor screwed up, because the gentleman that bought the home had a "white name" and was a licensed medical doctor. Well, imagine the ruckus when he finally came to the neighborhood. There was actually a petition signed by many seeking to deny him the ability to buy a home he could afford. They claimed home prices would fall if coloured folks were allowed to move in. The petition failed, he moved in, and several white families moved away. How many white folks have experienced this in the last 60 years based solely upon the colour of their skin? How would that have made him and his wife feel?

---

Now, I am going to shift gears and throw out an idea that this is FAR bigger than America. There was a political science professor who had the following question for students. Imagine that I have a machine that can go anywhere on earth at any time. I can change your skin pigmentation and your sex. I am going to pick you up and drop you off somewhere and somewhen from about 2,000BC to modern day. I won't tell you where or when you are going to be. You could be anywhere, anytime in the world. As you don't know where and when you will be, what race and sex would you choose?

The sex question is easy. Male. No matter where or when you are dropped women have gotten the short end of the stick for social mobility and rights from the dawn of civilization until just recently. Even now, women can speak to issues of respect and upward mobility.

So now we come to race. Inevitably, if you don't know where or when you are going to be dropped in to live the rest of your life, white is probably the safest - even in Africa! Sure, there have been limited times and places where you wouldn't want to be a white man, but overall white has the greatest chance of success. Whites went into the orient without issues due to skin colour. Whites went into Africa without issues due to skin colour. On and on it goes, with limited exceptions, whites have been tolerated while failing to reciprocate with equal tolerance.

As to the why? I'd have to ask a social anthropologist what it is about Europeans that have made them a very boot print on the world while being very intolerant of diversity. Maybe Christianity had something to do with it? Maybe it was their constant struggle with each other for resources? I don't know. What I do know is that racism is NOT owned by the American culture, but boy did we carry it to a level beyond where many did before.

The first step in solving a problem is recognizing that one exists. Does "white privilege" exist today in America? I would say yes. Studies I saw conducted in the recent past showed several college students all applying for the same job. Some white, some black. A mix of males and females both. The kids were all given nearly equal resumes and practiced answering questions as close to one another as possible. The whites got the job offers at a higher rate than the blacks. Here is a brief list of five (5) studies that cover different issues of racism in America: 5 Studies That Prove Racism Is Still Way Worse Than We Think | Cracked.com

Now, how to solve the problem? That is a difficult question. For me, the easiest way is to simply speak up when I hear or see something I perceive near me as racist. I will let people know I don't like certain racial epithets. I will let people know I don't appreciate degrading treatment of someone who is a minority. The other thing I try to do is just listen. Where I work I have driven a client who's grandmother was an actual slave during the civil war! This client is very old and her grandmother was old when the client was a child, but stories were passed on. I believe sometimes just empathizing and trying to understand is a big step in the right direction.

Regards,

Doug

Almost none of this is accurate. Many Italian Americans couldn't get a decent job in America for decades due to racism. In some influential Italian neighborhoods, it got even more splintered; Southern Italians couldn't get jobs in Northern Italian parts of Brooklyn. Italians couldn't walk down half the streets of NYC, for decades. Same is true for Irish Americans. My Irish American great grandfather has stories of walking home from school and seeing his sister crying in the street with blood coming from her head because some guy threw a potato at her head. A comparable number of white Americans have been slaves to Black Americans, and internationally white people make up the majority of slaves in human history.

etc etc

And I repeat what I think is the more salient point: If you're black, mediocre at what you do and involved in either academia or corporate America, you will get a virtual free pass to the promise land of upper class life. This trumps made-up bus driver studies by some distance in practical application.

 

[Shiver]

Just out of curiosity, how do you know this exactly? Seems a lot of people have been the victims of affirmative action here on INGO, which I find odd. Is it possible that you guys just weren't better qualified, or fit into the company's image like the guy they took for the position?
Most of the time when people cite affirmative action (or the reverse) as the reason they didn't get something, I tend to believe that's probably their excuse to make them feel better.

Kinda like when black people claim white privilege when they don't get what they want? No no of course not.

 

[Kutnupe14]

I can answer this for you, but I don't want to be banned .....

You can PM me, and you have my word, I won't bring up your answer in any open/public thread.

 

[Shiver]

They are surprisingly normal in my limited experience. Sorry..

First off no woman is "normal" so obviously I would look for one who's personality matches mine. I just personally prefer the physical appearance of Asian women.

 

[churchmouse]

Youre way more elegant getting the point across than I. You fully understand, and as I have noticed, a number of others.

Having met Doug and had conversation with him I agree with his thinking in this regard. The rep NAZI's have me locked out not that it makes a difference.

Yes, things were not good for people of color when I was a young man. I have grown up through the 1st busing in Indy. It was a troubled time for all involved.
That said, things have turned the corner from those days. Tremendous advances have been made.
My SIL is a young man of color. He works hard. He takes care of his family. The twins in my avatar and an 8 year old are from that relationship. I see all sides. I have sat by the fire with young men of both races (this is about "Us and them" right) having serious discussion about the wall that exists. They see this through their eyes. I have come to understand this. I do not agree with everything they think but my vision/opinions/thinking have been tuned from a different time.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Kinda like when black people claim white privilege when they don't get what they want? No no of course not.

You apparently don't understand the issue either. Give me an example of what black people "want" (in tangible terms), when they cite "white privilege."

 

[Kutnupe14]

Having met Doug and had conversation with him I agree with his thinking in this regard. The rep NAZI's have me locked out not that it makes a difference.

Yes, things were not good for people of color when I was a young man. I have grown up through the 1st busing in Indy. It was a troubled time for all involved.
That said, things have turned the corner from those days. Tremendous advances have been made.
My SIL is a young man of color. He works hard. He takes care of his family. The twins in my avatar and an 8 year old are from that relationship. I see all sides. I have sat by the fire with young men of both races (this is about "Us and them" right) having serious discussion about the wall that exists. They see this through their eyes. I have come to understand this. I do not agree with everything they think but my vision/opinions/thinking have been tuned from a different time.

We have come, as a nation, light years past from when you were a young man, but we still have our difficulties..... ALL of us. This problem isn't unique to any one group. But we're addressing the topic the OP started.

 

[Shiver]

You apparently don't understand the issue either. Give me an example of what black people "want" (in tangible terms), when they cite "white privilege."

That is actually a good question. I have no idea what the endgame of all the white privilege and white guilt bs is.