Conservation Officer needs no search warrant (?)

[HoughMade]

In Oliver v. United States, (1984) 466 U.S. 170, 104 S. Ct. 1735, 1740, 1743, 80 L. Ed. 2d 214, 223, 227, the United States Supreme Court held: "The Fourth Amendment does not protect the merely subjective expectation of privacy, but only those expectations that society is prepared to recognize as reasonable...

...The test of whether an expectation of privacy is legitimate for Fourth Amendment purposes is not whether the individual chooses to conceal assertedly 'private' activity; rather, the correct inquiry is whether the government's intrusion infringes upon the personal and societal values protected by the Fourth Amendment."

In Oliver the Court considered two cases with facts very similar to the case at bar. Regarding Oliver, police received reports that marijuana was being grown on the defendant's farm. Kentucky State Police narcotics agents arrived at the farm, drove past the defendant's house to a locked gate with a "no trespassing" sign, walked around the gate down a footpath, and found a field of marijuana over a mile from the defendant's house. In the companion case the Maine police received a tip that marijuana was being grown in the woods behind the defendant's residence. Police officers entered the woods by a path between the residence and a neighboring house and continued through the woods until they reached two marijuana patches fenced in by chicken wire and "no trespassing" signs.

In both cases the United States Supreme Court cited Hester v. United States, (1924) 265 U.S. 57, 44 S. Ct. 445, 68 L. Ed. 898 in determining the "open fields" doctrine should be applied to ascertain whether the discovery and seizure of the marijuana was valid. In Hester the Supreme Court explained that Fourth Amendment protection is accorded to persons, houses, papers, and effects, but that the government's intrusion upon open fields is not an unreasonable search proscribed by the Fourth Amendment. Hester, 265 U.S. 57, 59, 44 S. Ct. 445, 446, 68 L. Ed. 898, 900.

In light of Hester and Katz the Supreme Court in Oliver held: "As a practical matter these lands usually are accessible to the public and the police in ways that a home, an office, or a commercial structure would not be. It is not generally true that fences or no trespassing signs effectively bar the public from viewing open fields in rural areas . . . . For these reasons, the asserted expectation of privacy in open fields is not an expectation that society recognizes as reasonable." Oliver, U.S., 104 S. Ct. at 1741, 80 L. Ed. 2d at 224-225.

The common law distinguished open fields from the curtilage, the area immediately surrounding the home, affording Fourth Amendment protection only to the curtilage, not neighboring open fields. Hester, 265 U.S. at 58, 44 S. Ct. at 446, 68 L. Ed. at 900...

...Justice Powell stated in Oliver that an open field need be neither open nor a field. Oliver, U.S., 104 S. Ct. at 1742, 80 L. Ed. 2d at 225, n. 11. In other words, woods, brush, and water courses could be considered an open field under that doctrine. This of course cannot be interpreted to mean that the open field doctrine will apply to buildings and greenhouses per se. Where such structures are part of the curtilage or have some nexus with the curtilage, they will be afforded Fourth Amendment protection. But where, as here, the structure is separate from the curtilage and any relation with the curtilage is totally lacking, and the structure is situated in the midst of an open field, the open field doctrine will apply. We interpret the "open fields" doctrine as being concerned primarily with the character of the area as distinguished from the more highly protected curtilage.

Blalock v. State, 483 N.E.2d 439, 442-443 (Ind. 1985).

So explain to me again why Conservation Officers have so much more "power" than "regular" police officers? Could it be that the normal subject of their enforcement duties take them into the fields, woods and onto the waterways where no police officer needs a warrant? Places where "regular" police officers could go, but usually don't have a reason to?

Your home and curtilage are protected from search people....curtilage, learn it, live it, love it.

I would suggest not impliedly threatening to shoot Conservation Officers, or anyone else. Neat internet gun forum fodder....not so hot way to stay out of jail.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

Your home and curtilage are protected from search people....curtilage, learn it, live it, love it.

It's just a plant!*


*The grass . . . in my curtilage.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I haven't found police to have much respect for curtilage either.

 

[miguel]

Then you should move to Churubusco!!!!!

What in the heck is this about? I need more info, man!

 

[shootersix]

ok so let me see where this thread is going...

some co's are cool....some are a$$hats!
some po's are cool....some are a$$hats!

wow! you mean people are different! omg! it's something i never knew before! imagine that!

hey guess what? some normal people(not law enforcement) are a$$hats too!

hey i got pulled over by a state trooper one time and got a ticket for speeding, and onetime for a burned out headlight(but he let me off with a warning) wow i guess 50% of the state police are a$$hats!, epd pulled me over for speeding one time and let me go! i guess epd are 100% cool people!

i can imagine that the police see us that way too! but i'll tell you what, i treat all people with respect, not just cops, not just civilians, EVERYBODY!, i know its not what the cool kids do(you know bash on the cops) but hell they have a tough enough job with out getting attitude from a person just because they were speeding and a cop pulls them over(bbi, frank, phlo) how many timesdo you nicely ask for a license registration and proof of insurance only to be met with attitude? and how many times were you going to let somebody off with a warning, just to give them a ticket beacuse of the way they treated you?

people people people...cant we all just get along?

 

[PeaShooter]

I like Turtles!

They are especially fun when you chuck them in a skeet thrower and break out your 12ga!

 

[HoughMade]

They are especially fun when you chuck them in a skeet thrower and break out your 12ga!

Don't need to read you your rights to extract that confession either.

 

[Kirk Freeman]

What in the heck is this about? I need more info, man!

Dude, it's Zippy the Turtle.

The Busco Turtle was in our thread on Indiana Cities and Towns: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/324308-indiana-cities-towns-thread.html

 

[Dead Duck]

Dude, it's Zippy the Turtle.

The Busco Turtle was in our thread on Indiana Cities and Towns: https://www.indianagunowners.com/forums/break-room/324308-indiana-cities-towns-thread.html

Great -
Now I need to read another thread.

I didn't know there was an actual turtle story? I just thought all the [STRIKE]old farts[/STRIKE] nice little old ladies in town liked turtles for some reason.


Who knew

 

[SEIndSAM]

Great -
Now I need to read another thread.

I didn't know there was an actual turtle story? I just thought all the [STRIKE]old farts[/STRIKE] nice little old ladies in town liked turtles for some reason.


Who knew

If your ever near Busco, stop at the McDonalds on the south side of town. There is a large plaque/poster in there that explains the legend of Turtle Town...

 

[Dead Duck]

If your ever near Busco, stop at the McDonalds on the south side of town. There is a large plaque/poster in there that explains the legend of Turtle Town...

Do I need my kids standing with me to read it? I don't want to look like a total dork you know.

 

[Ahburns]

It's just a plant!*


*The grass . . . in my curtilage.

Isn't your curtilage defined by your moat?

 

[mom45]

Mmm...turtles. Chocolate, nuts and caramel....now I am getting hungry.

 

[Denny347]

I haven't found some police to have much respect for curtilage either.

I FIFY

 

[CathyInBlue]

And how am I to tell the ones with respect for mye ryieghts from the ones ready to bust a cap in a sista for daring to bear arms in their presence? Is there a bar code? Secret handshake?

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

And how am I to tell the ones with respect for mye ryieghts from the ones ready to bust a cap in a sista for daring to bear arms in their presence? Is there a bar code? Secret handshake?

I am a softy for being winked at.

 

[CathyInBlue]

I don't think you'd like the way I wink. It involves the middle digits of both hands projected skyward.

 

[Frank_N_Stein]

I don't think you'd like the way I wink. It involves the middle digits of both hands projected skyward.

Ooh, I love a classy lady.

 

[wtfd661]

What in the heck is this about? I need more info, man!

Ask and ye shall receive!!

The mystery of Turtle Town USA: Churubusco, Indiana - Midwest Guest

 

[10mmMarc]

Why would a CO care or know if someone is allowed to be on personal property? All they care about is caliber and papers.

Both times I was asked for my written permission to be on both properties, when I was getting into my truck the CO pulled up behind me as the property owner was just leaving and we had been talking, but he still asked if I had permission in writing to be there.
The second time when the CO ask if I had permission, I said "I sure hope so, I slept on their couch last night" , neither time did the CO ask about the weapon I was using, both firearms, and only one time did they ask to see my hunting license.