FBI switching back to 9mm and their reasoning...

[Tomahawkman]

Ive been in ongoing arguments with a few people over the 9 vs 45 debate. I own both and the .45 is most definitely an amazing round but I carry 9, and if I had to choose 1 and 1 only itd be the 9mm. I always try to get them to understand that at one time yes the 9mm round was not as effective or capable as it is now and that modern ballistic technology has brought the 9mm very far, however they seem to be stuck in past on this subject and refuse to understand that it has changed performance wise.

 

[WestSider]

It seems James Yeager was right, .40's do suck.

 

[phylodog]

It seems James Yeager was right, .40's do suck.

I wouldn't say that's an accurate statement. It has worked out pretty well for us over the years.

 

[WestSider]

I wouldn't say that's an accurate statement. It has worked out pretty well for us over the years.

I know I just had to go there...

I carry a .40 every day.

 

[phylodog]

PURPLE DEFICIENCY!!!!

 

[Fargo]

If I had to equip a wide variety of people of various levels of proficiency, 9mm would be my go to. It's more forgiving of a lack of recoil control, which is common. The sights move less and are easier to track, and easier is better. If I were dealing with people who were dedicated to maintaining proficiency, instructors who would/could work with individuals and give real feedback on their issues, teach recoil control, and go beyond just getting people to qualify than the answer may very well change.

I thought federal agents were by definition at the apex of proficiency... /purple

 

[BADWOLF]

I personally am a fan of hornaday critical duty ammo in 9mm. And yes it passes all 5 of the FBI's barrier tests with flying colors. Its a great ammo and a good price if you can find the 50rd. LE boxes and not the 20rd retail boxes.

 

[singlemalt]

9mm might expand but .45 doesn't shrink! ;-)

 

[9mmfan]

I've carried 9mm for years. Did for awhile carry a .357 and dabbled in the .40 but always came back to the 9. I have every confidence in my carry rounds but hopefully won't ever have to use them.

 

[foszoe]

Federal 147gr HST is available to the public, was one of the bullets we tested recently and is occupying the magazines of my CC pistol and will be for the foreseeable future.

Is it better tHan federal 124 and 135 gr. offerings?

 

[phylodog]

Is it better tHan federal 124 and 135 gr. offerings?

I haven't tested those. We had an ability to test a limited variety of ammunition in 9mm & .40 and I went with the 147gr standard velocity based on the recommendation of the Federal Rep. The only time it didn't outperform just about everything else was through safety glass which is of least concern in my opinion.

 

[in625shooter]

9mm might expand but .45 doesn't shrink! ;-)

Sorry, couldn't resist!

 

[IndyDave1776]

Agreed. While I get Expat's point, I think, and agree we need to quit dumbing everything down to the LCD, sometimes it is just more logical. Every time the romantic side of me wants to switch from 9mm to .45, the practical side wins out. The .45 gains me nothing, but costs me in terms of size/capacity and cost of ammo. If there was some huge upside other than because it is God's caliber maybe I would make the switch, as it is there is no point. Now if others feel it is worth it, good for them. (Well unless we are talking .40 and then that is a whole different story.)

WHAT?! You don't LOVE God's caliber, you heathen?

 

[SteveM4A1]

Ive been in ongoing arguments with a few people over the 9 vs 45 debate. I own both and the .45 is most definitely an amazing round but I carry 9, and if I had to choose 1 and 1 only itd be the 9mm. I always try to get them to understand that at one time yes the 9mm round was not as effective or capable as it is now and that modern ballistic technology has brought the 9mm very far, however they seem to be stuck in past on this subject and refuse to understand that it has changed performance wise.

Technology has also brought the .45 very far as well (I always like how that part is left out). But I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 9mm with some federal hst.

That being said, I like my 14 rounds of .45 hst

 

[Spear Dane]

Seems to me it all comes down to a decent sized caliber and rounds in the mag...ergo a 9mm.

90-round New York City gunfight leaves one injured, slightly (VIDEO)

 

[oldpink]

If 9mm kills the body, and .45 ACP kills the soul, wouldn't full house 10mm kill the next bad guy in advance?

 

[in625shooter]

Technology has also brought the .45 very far as well (I always like how that part is left out). But I wouldn't hesitate to carry a 9mm with some federal hst.

That being said, I like my 14 rounds of .45 hst

Not as far as the 9mm has prevalied. Real world results, as well as testing in controled enviorments show all the major calibres are wthin very few percentage points on effectivness. Every one (9,, 357, 40 and 45) has rounds that work better than others wothin their caliber but the ones that work the best in each one are neck in neck. Only Murphy's Law will dictate otherwise wheter it is a 9mm, 45 or 450 Bushmaster.

Just the 40 is no more effective like it promised and wears out guns quicker.

 

[Drail]

"Just the .40 is no more effective like it promised and it wear out guns quicker." Yup, guns originally designed for 9mm. Which is the reason the cartridge was introduced - it could be crammed into almost all of the existing 9mm platforms. Saved a lot of money on R&D work. Once again I am amazed that people are so interested in what the FBI chooses to arm their agents. These days the Govt. chooses tools based on cheapest costs and kickbacks and the fact that it's made in Senator Blowhard's home State. - not what is best.

 

[IndyDave1776]

If 9mm kills the body, and .45 ACP kills the soul, wouldn't full house 10mm kill the next bad guy in advance?

I thought it worked out that the 10mm killed the bad guy you shot, body and soul, and all his associates died of fright upon hearing it fire.

 

[phylodog]

The FBI is far from getting everything right but the folks running their ballistics lab have their stuff together better than most. When the .40 was introduced it offered significant advantages over the existing 9mm bullets of the time albeit at a cost. Technology has eliminated most of the advantages that the .40 once held so it makes sense, depending on the needs of the shooter, to consider the 9mm. If the .40 can be criticized for being hard on guns designed for 9mm then I don't see how the 10mm cannot be criticized in the same fashion for being harder on guns which were originally designed for the .45acp.

The SAAMI spec for max chamber pressure of the 9mm & .40 is 35,000psi, the .45ACP is 21,000psi and the 10mm is 37,500psi. Chamber pressure is not the only consideration when talking about how much of a beating a gun takes but it is a major contributing factor.