FBI switching back to 9mm and their reasoning...

[BADWOLF]

Just thought this was an interesting read on why their dropping 10mm / 40 cal and heading back to 9mm. Clears up a lot of misconceptions with scientific data.

The FBI is Going 9mm: Here Comes the Science | The Loadout Room

 

[shootersix]

Vanderburgh county sheriffs switched 2 or 3 years ago, they went from the 220 in 45 acp, to the glock 37(they only had them for a couple of years) to glock 17's

the 9mm is a great stopping bullet, I carry 9 or 45's only and always use critical defense bullets

 

[Birds Away]

While I don't necessarily buy into everything that was said in that post, I do believe that 9mm is the easiest to "score" with. The performance, penetration, wound cavity,etc. of your chosen round is moot if you don't get a hit.

 

[Expat]

A year old article that has been reposted several times. We know they went to the .40 from the 10mm because the 10 was too much for females and recoil sensitive boys. So now they are going to 9. Reason? Same as the one for going to .40 IMO. But we won't say that because we are dealing with the "give everyone a trophy for being so special" generation. Oh, caliber doesnt matter... we could give you a pellet gun since you are such an excellent shooter on your video games, and you would kill the bad guys no matter what you used...

 

[GodFearinGunTotin]

A year old article that has been reposted several times. We know they went to the .40 from the 10mm because the 10 was too much for females and recoil sensitive boys. So now they are going to 9. Reason? Same as the one for going to .40 IMO. But we won't say that because we are dealing with the "give everyone a trophy for being so special" generation. Oh, caliber doesnt matter... we could give you a pellet gun since you are such an excellent shooter on your video games, and you would kill the bad guys no matter what you used...

Yeah but do you have some fancy charts and graphs to illustrate your point?

 

[oldpink]

A year old article that has been reposted several times. We know they went to the .40 from the 10mm because the 10 was too much for females and recoil sensitive boys. So now they are going to 9. Reason? Same as the one for going to .40 IMO. But we won't say that because we are dealing with the "give everyone a trophy for being so special" generation. Oh, caliber doesnt matter... we could give you a pellet gun since you are such an excellent shooter on your video games, and you would kill the bad guys no matter what you used...

Now, now, now...you're not supposed to write inconvenient facts.

 

[in625shooter]

A year old article that has been reposted several times. We know they went to the .40 from the 10mm because the 10 was too much for females and recoil sensitive boys. So now they are going to 9. Reason? Same as the one for going to .40 IMO. But we won't say that because we are dealing with the "give everyone a trophy for being so special" generation. Oh, caliber doesnt matter... we could give you a pellet gun since you are such an excellent shooter on your video games, and you would kill the bad guys no matter what you used...

Actually the FBI for most applications went to a downloaded 10mm round referred to as the 10mm light. That was the advent of the 40. They got the 10mm light in a 9mm size gun with the 40. The only recoil issues was with full powered 10mm as well as some over penitration concerns. The new switch has to do with the fact 9mm of today is more effective that it was 20 to 25 years ago, the 40 did not increase effectiveness as it looked like it would and it wears out polymer guns qui ker so there is no benefit to run anything else.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If I had to equip a wide variety of people of various levels of proficiency, 9mm would be my go to. It's more forgiving of a lack of recoil control, which is common. The sights move less and are easier to track, and easier is better. If I were dealing with people who were dedicated to maintaining proficiency, instructors who would/could work with individuals and give real feedback on their issues, teach recoil control, and go beyond just getting people to qualify than the answer may very well change.

 

[rhino]

I equipped myself with 9mm after trying .40 in three different platforms.

 

[cedartop]

If I had to equip a wide variety of people of various levels of proficiency, 9mm would be my go to. It's more forgiving of a lack of recoil control, which is common. The sights move less and are easier to track, and easier is better. If I were dealing with people who were dedicated to maintaining proficiency, instructors who would/could work with individuals and give real feedback on their issues, teach recoil control, and go beyond just getting people to qualify than the answer may very well change.

Agreed. While I get Expat's point, I think, and agree we need to quit dumbing everything down to the LCD, sometimes it is just more logical. Every time the romantic side of me wants to switch from 9mm to .45, the practical side wins out. The .45 gains me nothing, but costs me in terms of size/capacity and cost of ammo. If there was some huge upside other than because it is God's caliber maybe I would make the switch, as it is there is no point. Now if others feel it is worth it, good for them. (Well unless we are talking .40 and then that is a whole different story.)

 

[SSGSAD]

Just thought this was an interesting read on why their dropping 10mm / 40 cal and heading back to 9mm. Clears up a lot of misconceptions with scientific data.

The FBI is Going 9mm: Here Comes the Science | The Loadout Room

I have carried a 9mm, since 1979, never thought of changing, esp., to .40.....

So many more choices, with the 9mm .....

 

[phylodog]

Having myself participate in a recent ballistic gelatin test of 9mm vs .40 I have zero reservations about the terminal ballistics of the 9mm. Bullet technology has come a long way in recent years.

 

[JeremiahJohnson]

My 10mm handgun choice carries exactly the same number rounds as my Beretta 92F in 9mm.

Plus...I like the 10mm. It goes BANG! really loudly.

 

[edporch]

My first question that came to mind is can WE buy the exact same 9mm ammo the FBI uses to make these claims?

 

[phylodog]

My first question that came to mind is can WE buy the exact same 9mm ammo the FBI uses to make these claims?

Federal 147gr HST is available to the public, was one of the bullets we tested recently and is occupying the magazines of my CC pistol and will be for the foreseeable future.

 

[Expat]

Having myself participate in a recent ballistic gelatin test of 9mm vs .40 I have zero reservations about the terminal ballistics of the 9mm. Bullet technology has come a long way in recent years.

I remember watching some gelatin tests several years ago. While the penetration was similar, wound channel was similar, there was one striking difference in the tests I watched. The gelatin was visibly rocked violently by some calibers and not by others. I have to think that would make a difference in how the person felt after getting shot.

 

[phylodog]

I remember watching some gelatin tests several years ago. While the penetration was similar, wound channel was similar, there was one striking difference in the tests I watched. The gelatin was visibly rocked violently by some calibers and not by others. I have to think that would make a difference in how the person felt after getting shot.

They may feel it more but it is unlikely to have any appreciable effect on a dedicated adversary. Below 2200fps (approx) the only meaningful damage comes from the permanent wound cavity meaning the areas directly contacted by the bullet.

 

[KG1]

Having myself participate in a recent ballistic gelatin test of 9mm vs .40 I have zero reservations about the terminal ballistics of the 9mm. Bullet technology has come a long way in recent years.

^This^ I've dabbled in .40 and .45 off and on thru the years and have recently came back to 9mm for a number of reasons that have already been mentioned. I have every confidence in the effectiveness of the round due to advances in bullet technology.

 

[edporch]

I must admit I switched to a 9mm 125 grain bullet late last year.
BUT it's in a .357 Sig round!

I was dismissive of this round for MANY years until I tried it.
Now I'm sold!

 

[Beowulf]

A year old article that has been reposted several times. We know they went to the .40 from the 10mm because the 10 was too much for females and recoil sensitive boys. So now they are going to 9. Reason? Same as the one for going to .40 IMO. But we won't say that because we are dealing with the "give everyone a trophy for being so special" generation. Oh, caliber doesnt matter... we could give you a pellet gun since you are such an excellent shooter on your video games, and you would kill the bad guys no matter what you used...

Meh. I've never liked how the .40 recoiled and I'm not what most people would call recoil sensitive. In the Glock platform, it was always too snappy. So, I dumped my 22 and my 23 and went to a 17.

Frankly, the .45 recoils much less and is a solid round (hell, I've taught new shooters who have told me that my 1911 and FNX 45 Tactical has less recoil than my Glock 17 and Beretta 92), and I would much rather have a .45 or 9mm than a .40. I personally feel the .40 was a solution in search of a problem. Now, it's basically obsolete.