Quebec mosque attacked, 5 dead

[funeralweb]

Suspect in Quebec mosque terror attack was of Moroccan origin, reports show | Fox News

Could swear I heard just last week someone singling out Morocco as a country we didn't have to worry about as far as radical terrorists were concerned. I remember thinking "We'll see how long that lasts...."

 

[T.Lex]

So I'm actually confused about the terrorism angle.

Either these are other Muslims, and this is a Shia/Sunni thing (or other "localized" rivalry) and this isn't really intended for political gain.

Or this is "right wing" extremists attacking Muslims, so WOULD be part of the MSM narrative (as described on INGO).

Or the real world is more complicated than the MSM and some INGOers think.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

Or the real world is more complicated than the MSM and some INGOers think.

I resemble that remark.

 

[gregr]

So I'm actually confused about the terrorism angle.

Either these are other Muslims, and this is a Shia/Sunni thing (or other "localized" rivalry) and this isn't really intended for political gain.

Or this is "right wing" extremists attacking Muslims, so WOULD be part of the MSM narrative (as described on INGO).

Or the real world is more complicated than the MSM and some INGOers think.

If you overthink things, sometimes you create a complexity that doesn`t really exist otherwise.

 

[HoughMade]

I always counsel "wait and see what the evidence shows"....but I'm a lawyer, not a journalist for whom first trumps accuracy.

However, is more information comes out, this appears to be Muslim on Muslim terrorism and as I said earlier, this is not unusual given that the terrorists have a particular hatred for Muslims who are not "Muslim enough".

...and this isn't all that complicated.

 

[T.Lex]

I resemble that remark.

haha

No, not really.

If you overthink things, sometimes you create a complexity that doesn`t really exist otherwise.

And if you oversimplify complicated things, you end up with wrong answers.

I always counsel "wait and see what the evidence shows"....but I'm a lawyer, not a journalist for whom first trumps accuracy.

However, is more information comes out, this appears to be Muslim on Muslim terrorism and as I said earlier, this is not unusual given that the terrorists have a particular hatred for Muslims who are not "Muslim enough".

...and this isn't all that complicated.

And if that's true, it also isn't terrorism.

A heinous crime, to be sure, but also not terrorism. Unless we're REALLY moving the goalposts for what terrorism is.

 

[HoughMade]

Like I said- I like to wait and see, but here's my down home dividing line between regular crime and terrorism. If you're killing just to kill or to steal or because someone angered you, sounds like a crime. If you are killing to send a message to people like your victims that they should be like you or think like you or fear being dead- that's terrorism.

I guess we'll see.

 

[Hornett]

That's Canada.
They have very strict gun laws.
You get INTERROGATED about guns at the border going in to Canada.

So, what are the odds that these guns came from Indiana, through Chicago.
Probably even originated at Don's Guns.

I am seriously amazed at how terrorists seem to have no problem getting guns when they need them.

 

[T.Lex]

If you are killing to send a message to people like your victims that they should be like you or think like you or fear being dead- that's terrorism.

(Just because we're definition/line-drawing professionals....)

So gangbangers killing rival gangbangers is terrorism now?

Or almost every war, ever?

Now, politicians have a definition of "terrorism" that is malleable, depending on the political exigencies of the times. So, I'll grant you that.

 

[jamil]

(Just because we're definition/line-drawing professionals....)

So gangbangers killing rival gangbangers is terrorism now?

Or almost every war, ever?

Now, politicians have a definition of "terrorism" that is malleable, depending on the political exigencies of the times. So, I'll grant you that.

The FBI has a definition posted for what is terrorism. Probably best to stick with that. Well, the UN has a definition too, but theirs is worded less condemningly to certain ethnic groups which fit the FBI's definition. I think we're safe to stick with what the FBI says it is.

 

[jamil]

Oh, and technically Hough didn't say terrorism was THAT. He said THAT was terrorism. So it does not necessarily pass the if and only if test.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

It's one of those "you know it when you see it" sorts of things... and trying to apply the definition to other stuff doesn't work well.

 

[T.Lex]

The FBI has a definition posted for what is terrorism. Probably best to stick with that. Well, the UN has a definition too, but theirs is worded less condemningly to certain ethnic groups which fit the FBI's definition. I think we're safe to stick with what the FBI says it is.

Yeah, as I recall, there's differences between every US acronym agency definition of "terrorism."

I suspect Canadian agencies have their own, too.

To politicians - and MSM - it is very much "I know it when I see it."

 

[T.Lex]

By the way, unconfirmed reports are that the distinctly French-named dude felt remorse for the shooting and called police while suicidal driving away from the scene. His social media accounts include follows of Trump and the Le Pens (and apparently a Quebecois separatist group). Less is known about the distinctly non-French named dude, except he was a student at Laval and of Moroccan descent.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

And if that's true, it also isn't terrorism.

A heinous crime, to be sure, but also not terrorism. Unless we're REALLY moving the goalposts for what terrorism is.

.

How is it not terrorism? It's the exact same, "join us, or we will kill you" to make people afraid due to their beliefs.

 

[Kutnupe14]

By the way, unconfirmed reports are that the distinctly French-named dude felt remorse for the shooting and called police while suicidal driving away from the scene. His social media accounts include follows of Trump and the Le Pens (and apparently a Quebecois separatist group). Less is known about the distinctly non-French named dude, except he was a student at Laval and of Moroccan descent.

You know what I find odd. No Trump.... Where is he on this? Has he made a comment/tweet, and the media is simply ignoring it?

 

[HoughMade]

Oh, and technically Hough didn't say terrorism was THAT. He said THAT was terrorism. So it does not necessarily pass the if and only if test.

I intended no IFF. I was talking in reference to the topic at hand.

...and yes, there are crimes we may think of simply as crimes because of the people who commit them that look an awful lot like terrorism.

...and the point in bright lining this is....?

 

[ArcadiaGP]

You know what I find odd. No Trump.... Where is he on this? Has he made a comment/tweet, and the media is simply ignoring it?

Just saw that he called Treudeu to offer condolences.

 

[HoughMade]

You know what I find odd. No Trump.... Where is he on this? Has he made a comment/tweet, and the media is simply ignoring it?

Could it be that unlike numerous media sources reporting this and the executive order in the same breath and suggesting, if not proclaiming a connection between the two, he is waiting to see what actually happened?

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I see muslims much like catholics. In Catholicism, apparently, there are "practicing" catholics, and then some who claim to be catholic, but apparently just aren`t "practicing". There must be those who claim to be muslim that aren`t "practicing", because I`ve read the koran, and if you claim to espouse that, then you`re swearing allegiance to lying to acheive the ends of the faith, and the slaughter of all who will not submit to islam. There really is no "radical" element based on those writings, just the opposite, there are those who claim to be islamist but aren`t holding to the hardcore tenets of it.

.

Seems like we go through this on the forum every so often. There's a fairly lengthy thread already if you'd simply like to peruse it. I'm Muslim, as are a few other members. Nothing in the Quran extorts me to violence. If you'd like to read an English translation that's annotated without the Saudi influence, I can recommend you one.