Quebec mosque attacked, 5 dead

[Kutnupe14]

By the way, unconfirmed reports are that the distinctly French-named dude felt remorse for the shooting and called police while suicidal driving away from the scene. His social media accounts include follows of Trump and the Le Pens (and apparently a Quebecois separatist group). Less is known about the distinctly non-French named dude, except he was a student at Laval and of Moroccan descent.

Alexandre Bissonnette: 5 Fast Facts You Need to Know | Heavy.com

 

[Kutnupe14]

Saw on reddit: Two Canadian Mosque shooters are Bashir al-Taweed and Hassan Matti, Syrians who entered Canada last week.

Now if this is true...HOW did Trump arrange this? I stand amazed.

reddit fails again

 

[Kirk Freeman]

I see muslims much like catholics. In Catholicism, apparently, there are "practicing" catholics, and then some who claim to be catholic, but apparently just aren`t "practicing". There must be those who claim to be muslim that aren`t "practicing", because I`ve read the koran, and if you claim to espouse that, then you`re swearing allegiance to lying to acheive the ends of the faith, and the slaughter of all who will not submit to islam. There really is no "radical" element based on those writings, just the opposite, there are those who claim to be islamist but aren`t holding to the hardcore tenets of it.

Do not confuse Wahhabism with Islam.

 

[HoughMade]

reddit fails again

maybe (and not surprisingly)...but I still think we are in the "wait and see" time period.

 

[T.Lex]

.

How is it not terrorism? It's the exact same, "join us, or we will kill you" to make people afraid due to their beliefs.

Traditionally, terrorism is differentiated from crime because of a political goal.

The IRA: wanted England out of Ireland.
The PLO: wanted a homeland for Palestine.
The Algerian National Liberation Front: wanted Algerian independence from France.
Al Qaeda/Daesh/lone-wolf supporters: wanted/wants the US out of the ME.

"Join us or we'll kill you" treads an interesting line when applied to nation-states waging war.

 

[Trigger Time]

This will be interesting as it plays out. I'm smelling govt involvement and maybe the terrorist in the bunch became wise to the undercover operation? Just a guess

 

[Trigger Time]

.

Seems like we go through this on the forum every so often. There's a fairly lengthy thread already if you'd simply like to peruse it. I'm Muslim, as are a few other members. Nothing in the Quran extorts me to violence. If you'd like to read an English translation that's annotated without the Saudi influence, I can recommend you one.

so in your version did they remove the several chapters talking about killing christians? Serious question since you brought up different versions.
and thanks for confirming my suspicions on a couple others. To each their own.

 

[Doug]

That's Canada.
They have very strict gun laws.
You get INTERROGATED about guns at the border going in to Canada.

So, what are the odds that these guns came from Indiana, through Chicago.
Probably even originated at Don's Guns.

I am seriously amazed at how terrorists seem to have no problem getting guns when they need them.

I heard the AK-47's came from the Fast and Furious operation. If the buyers didn't head straight to Mexico, the agents just quite following them, so some of the guns probably went to Canada.

 

[ArcadiaGP]

One of the Quebec shooting suspects has been released as a witness.

THOUSANDS of narratives depend on which one is which.

 

[HoughMade]

I'm stepping back to not having a narrative and am in strictly "wait and see" mode.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

so in your version did they remove the several chapters talking about killing christians? Serious question since you brought up different versions.
and thanks for confirming my suspicions on a couple others. To each their own.

.

There is plenty of killing. Sometimes of Jews, Christians, poly-thiests, etc. The battles are discussed. What is important is that the killing was for that particular battle. An early example is a group of Jews ally with Mohammed, but when the city is under siege they join the enemy. Once the enemy is repelled, Mohammed orders all of the traitors executed. It is an order to kill Jews...but it's an order to kill THOSE Jews, not ALL Jews. When folks pick and choose verses, strip context, etc. it's easy to paint a different picture. In context, there were Jews and Christians who were allies as well, and the order certainly didn't apply to them nor does it apply to any context other than the particular battle.

Another favorite is stripped of context to say Muslims are commanded to mutilate their enemies, as it references cutting off thumbs and marking foreheads. Once again, it's a particular battle and the order isn't even to humans but to angels. The angels were to disable the enemy by cutting off their thumbs, making it impossible to wield a sword, rather than kill them. The mark on the forehead was to prove angels did it and it was by divine order, not at the hands of man.

There are subtle differences in Saudi translations. Islam is not one universal block of beliefs. Wahhabi is not Sufi, etc. Saudi translations tweak and poke to make Islam more anti-Jew. It also puts words in Mohammed's mouth he never spoke via the use of the asterisk. Christians and Jews go to Heaven (assuming they are good people, etc.) in the Quran. In the Saudi translations there's an asterisk that leads you to author's commentary that says this only applies up to the time of Mohammed. That's not what he said, isn't consistent with his other statements, etc.

Unfortunately, Saudi has money and they spend a lot of time putting their version (which happens to be rather friendly to the House of Saud's idea of Islam, go figure) out for free. It's the Gideons of the Islamic world.

Suspicions? About what? I've not made any secret I'm Muslim. I'm also a vet, a former security contractor, and a cop all of which you also know. I know what I've done to make the country and my community better and safer. If my religion or my lack of taking offense at things you find offensive are "suspicious", that's up to you. You be you, I'll be me.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I'm stepping back to not having a narrative and am in strictly "wait and see" mode.

.

Well, that's just silly. If a chaotic scene isn't made into pablum by the media for mass consumption within the first 24 hours, it's a coverup or a false flag or a hoax...amiright?

 

[HoughMade]

.

Well, that's just silly. If a chaotic scene isn't made into pablum by the media for mass consumption within the first 24 hours, it's a coverup or a false flag or a hoax...amiright?

You joined INGO a month before me, so you must be right.

 

[Kutnupe14]

Could it be that unlike numerous media sources reporting this and the executive order in the same breath and suggesting, if not proclaiming a connection between the two, he is waiting to see what actually happened?

...because that's his style? But maybe you're right, but then I would say it is as equally plausible, that his silence is due to the group the victims belong too (and I'm not talking about Canadians).

 

[Trigger Time]

.

There is plenty of killing. Sometimes of Jews, Christians, poly-thiests, etc. The battles are discussed. What is important is that the killing was for that particular battle. An early example is a group of Jews ally with Mohammed, but when the city is under siege they join the enemy. Once the enemy is repelled, Mohammed orders all of the traitors executed. It is an order to kill Jews...but it's an order to kill THOSE Jews, not ALL Jews. When folks pick and choose verses, strip context, etc. it's easy to paint a different picture. In context, there were Jews and Christians who were allies as well, and the order certainly didn't apply to them nor does it apply to any context other than the particular battle.

Another favorite is stripped of context to say Muslims are commanded to mutilate their enemies, as it references cutting off thumbs and marking foreheads. Once again, it's a particular battle and the order isn't even to humans but to angels. The angels were to disable the enemy by cutting off their thumbs, making it impossible to wield a sword, rather than kill them. The mark on the forehead was to prove angels did it and it was by divine order, not at the hands of man.

There are subtle differences in Saudi translations. Islam is not one universal block of beliefs. Wahhabi is not Sufi, etc. Saudi translations tweak and poke to make Islam more anti-Jew. It also puts words in Mohammed's mouth he never spoke via the use of the asterisk. Christians and Jews go to Heaven (assuming they are good people, etc.) in the Quran. In the Saudi translations there's an asterisk that leads you to author's commentary that says this only applies up to the time of Mohammed. That's not what he said, isn't consistent with his other statements, etc.

Unfortunately, Saudi has money and they spend a lot of time putting their version (which happens to be rather friendly to the House of Saud's idea of Islam, go figure) out for free. It's the Gideons of the Islamic world.

Suspicions? About what? I've not made any secret I'm Muslim. I'm also a vet, a former security contractor, and a cop all of which you also know. I know what I've done to make the country and my community better and safer. If my religion or my lack of taking offense at things you find offensive are "suspicious", that's up to you. You be you, I'll be me.

thank you for the explanation I will truly give it thought later and compare it with other sources.
Suspicions aren't about you. I meant I had suspected due to other discussions with other members that they are of your same faith. That wasn't directed at you or even a negative at them. Just makes more sense now in relation to those discussions.
also I appreciate your service in the military and and after and also as a police officer. And I mean that for what it's worth.
We don't see eye to eye on religious issues. That's fine. I respect you for standing for what you believe in. I wish more
people would do the same. i can disagree with you on certain things and still respect you

 

[Doug]

I understand NBC News is withholding comment until they can figure out how President Donald Trump is responsible for this attack.

 

[spencer rifle]

The Canadian Council of Imams said in a statement that "Islamophobia has killed innocent Canadians."

Awaiting further developments.

Also, I seem to remember that translations from Arabic are not considered official and reliable, and only Arabic is accurate.

 

[HoughMade]

...because that's his style? But maybe you're right, but then I would say it is as equally plausible, that his silence is due to the group the victims belong too (and I'm not talking about Canadians).

Silence?

Just saw that he called Treudeu to offer condolences.

What else should the leader of a foreign nation do?

 

[T.Lex]

Sole suspect is now the Francophone name dude. Kinda trying the idea of not giving the name more fame than it deserves.

Does not appear to be any ME/islamofascist connection to the shooting. Although, initial reports had several shooters involved, it has now dropped to 1.

Which is always great for conspiracy theorists.

 

[T.Lex]

What else should the leader of a foreign nation do?

Build a wall.