12gauge self defense ammo?

[BehindBlueI's]

My question stands: what is the advantage in terminal ballistics to having all the shot in one hole as opposed to being spread out several inches where the shot could hit multiple organs?

Short answer: It's highly unlikely to matter.

 

[BE Mike]

I don't care, I've heard too many stories of ineffective penetration to know not to use it.

I still wouldn't want to get shot with it but I won't use it.

I didn't mean to intimate that it was ok to use birdshot for self-defense. Still, if that is all I had with me (maybe bird hunting) it makes me curious about the range.

 

[printcraft]

I didn't mean to intimate that it was ok to use birdshot for self-defense. Still, if that is all I had with me (maybe bird hunting) it makes me curious about the range.

No problemo. I just meant "for me".

 

[snorko]

SGammo has a pretty good price on the Federal Flitecontrol.

250 Round Case 12 Gauge Federal 1145 FPS Ammo at SGAmmo

Also $34.95/50 rounds.

 

[VERT]

I'm not sure why some of you are associating my statement about having a higher hit probability with a pattern as opposed to 1 hole, with the urban myth about not having to aim.
My question stands: what is the advantage in terminal ballistics to having all the shot in one hole as opposed to being spread out several inches where the shot could hit multiple organs?

I can see Fed's 'controlled flight' shells being important for a LEO who might likely be shooting at distances of 25 yards in public instead of under 25 feet inside his house. That all comes down to patterning and keeping all the shot on target and avoiding collateral damage. For HD I don't see the importantance or advantage of having all the shot in one hole. IS there some advantage in terms stopping the attacker?

No advantage or disadvantage that I can think of but that would only be my opinion. Buckshot is going to be darn effective. My only goal is to keep all shot on the target.

 

[SheepDog4Life]

I'm not sure why some of you are associating my statement about having a higher hit probability with a pattern as opposed to 1 hole, with the urban myth about not having to aim.
My question stands: what is the advantage in terminal ballistics to having all the shot in one hole as opposed to being spread out several inches where the shot could hit multiple organs?

I can see Fed's 'controlled flight' shells being important for a LEO who might likely be shooting at distances of 25 yards in public instead of under 25 feet inside his house. That all comes down to patterning and keeping all the shot on target and avoiding collateral damage. For HD I don't see the importantance or advantage of having all the shot in one hole. IS there some advantage in terms stopping the attacker?

For me, THAT is the purpose for wanting a tight pattern at the absolute longer HD distance I might encounter. As BBI indicates, all 9 (or 8) 00 buck pellets into upper center of mass (chest), it's pretty academic if it's a single hole or 9" pattern as either is 99% sure one shot stop.

In other words, I think we are agreeing on the important part, all pellets on target, none lost downrange.

 

[VERT]

SGammo has a pretty good price on the Federal Flitecontrol.

250 Round Case 12 Gauge Federal 1145 FPS Ammo at SGAmmo

Also $34.95/50 rounds.

I have bought Fiocchi, PMC, Federal and Rio from SGammo. Competitive pricing and shipped right to my front door. Just watch to make sure you maximize shipping costs.

 

[antiwheeze]

Being an Indiana deer hunter, I'd be inclined to use something at hand perhaps a 12 ga slug

 

[BehindBlueI's]

I didn't mean to intimate that it was ok to use birdshot for self-defense. Still, if that is all I had with me (maybe bird hunting) it makes me curious about the range.

.

Close enough to get a gas seal with the barrel. Watch the video of the near contact shot into clear gel, which usually gives more penetration than calibrated gel or meat.

Bird shot can be deadly, but even in those cases it's a sloooow stopper unless pain compliance works. One doctor said when birdshot is deadly, it's a gut shot and "three days later due to infection." Suicides with the gun in contact in the head (or in the mouth) so the gasses enter have been pretty effective if you angle it right. You could probably still have an open casket funeral, though.

 

[BE Mike]

.

Close enough to get a gas seal with the barrel. Watch the video of the near contact shot into clear gel, which usually gives more penetration than calibrated gel or meat.

Bird shot can be deadly, but even in those cases it's a sloooow stopper unless pain compliance works. One doctor said when birdshot is deadly, it's a gut shot and "three days later due to infection." Suicides with the gun in contact in the head (or in the mouth) so the gasses enter have been pretty effective if you angle it right. You could probably still have an open casket funeral, though.

Yep, same thing that was said of the .25 ACP...high lethality, but almost 0 stopping power.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

Yep, same thing that was said of the .25 ACP...high lethality, but almost 0 stopping power.

My experience with the .25 is that it's neither. It's not even a reliable suicide gun. I've had some fatals with it, but it *really* needs to be a face or temple shot. Even temple shots seem to flop around for hours before they finally die. I've mentioned the guy who shot himself under his chin and the bullet lodged in the roof of his mouth. Then there's the IPD officer shot in the back of the head by a hold up man. The cop thought he'd been punched, turned around to see the gun, and then killed the guy in a shootout in the gas station. Last year I had a guy shot through the screen of a screen door at near contact distance. 3 shots total. One bullet entered his shoe and bruised his foot. The other two hit the glass of the door behind him. They broke the first pane of glass but didn't damage the second.

.25 is not enough gun.

 

[BE Mike]

My experience with the .25 is that it's neither. It's not even a reliable suicide gun. I've had some fatals with it, but it *really* needs to be a face or temple shot. Even temple shots seem to flop around for hours before they finally die. I've mentioned the guy who shot himself under his chin and the bullet lodged in the roof of his mouth. Then there's the IPD officer shot in the back of the head by a hold up man. The cop thought he'd been punched, turned around to see the gun, and then killed the guy in a shootout in the gas station. Last year I had a guy shot through the screen of a screen door at near contact distance. 3 shots total. One bullet entered his shoe and bruised his foot. The other two hit the glass of the door behind him. They broke the first pane of glass but didn't damage the second.

.25 is not enough gun.

I was told that back in the day, a .25 ACP gunshot often resulted in death due to blood poisoning many days later. This came from a reliable source. Maybe today there are better techniques in medicine to prevent such infections. I agree that it ain't a man stopper.

 

[walleyepw]

Well, what do you guys think about the Hertters Multi Defense 12 gage rounds? They are six #1 Buck with one 63 caliber lead round ball?

 

[VERT]

Well, what do you guys think about the Hertters Multi Defense 12 gage rounds? They are six #1 Buck with one 63 caliber lead round ball?

How does it pattern? At what distance do all projectiles stay on target? Does the shot hit where it is aimed?

 

[bradbler]

I feel like oo buck for defense is a fantastic option. I don't know how you could argue something that powerful

 

[walleyepw]

I don't know how the Hertters Multi Defense round patterns. I was wondering if anyone had tried it. Seams to be an interesting concept ... Buck and Ball.

 

[walleyepw]

What about the Winchester PDX1?

 

[VERT]

What about the Winchester PDX1?

Same questions as I posed above. Have not shot these personally but the concept seems interesting. Looks like the same sepmanting slug that is in the other Winchester load I referenced earlier in the thread. That one however was rated at a move higher velocity. With as much payload as the PDX1 has I would be curious as to the recoil or if the segmenting slug would actually segment at the lower velocity. Regardless that is a lot of lead! If I run across any of these I will pick some up to try.

The whole slug + shot or segmenting slug is an interesting concept to me. The idea being a single load that can serve two purposes so that a person can use a single type of ammo. I shot some of the Winchester LE segmenting slug and just was not happy with the recoil or accuracy. In the end good quality low recoil 00 should serve my purposes out to 20 yards with my gun and some brands of slugs are accurate out to about 75 yards. So I just bought a couple cartoons of those.

On a budget I was impressed how the Fiocchi Low Recoil LE 9 pellet buckshot and 1 oz slugs shot in my guns. This is the stuff that you can buy in the 80 shell plastic cans. My only complaint is the slugs can be inconsistent in how they are crimped so I would cull those out for self defense and use use the others for practice. They chamber and fire just fine.

Right now my gun has Federal 8 pellet flight control and Trueball slugs hanging on it.

 

[BehindBlueI's]

If it was me, I'd buy plated 00 buck in a flightcontrol wad and call it a day. There's plenty of real world results with that load, so no need to ask "what if".

 

[VERT]

If it was me, I'd buy plated 00 buck in a flightcontrol wad and call it a day. There's plenty of real world results with that load, so no need to ask "what if".

But that isn't new or cool and does not require a marketing department. You sir are thinking low profit margin per unit. For my money I am ordering this:

OATH- Operators American Tactical Hardware . 12gauge TSR (Tango Shotgun Round) Aluminum - 5 Rounds/Package