.22 mag or .380?

[INMIline]

Would a .22 mag have more stopping power than a .380?

 

[billyboyr6]

Doubtful. The .22 mag would probably penetrate deeper, but the .380 would make a bigger hole.

 

[3point5]

personally...i dont want to be hit with either of them.

i think id trust my life to the 380 more though

 

[Plinkuh]

A .22 Mag;

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)
50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)

A .380 ACP;

90 gr (5.8 g) JHP 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 200 ft·lbf (270 J)
95 gr (6.2 g) FMJ 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 203 ft·lbf (275 J)

 

[cyprant]

I've also wondered this. Maybe some one could track down some ballistics?

 

[nighter]

i think it depends on the firearm and the shooter

 

[M67]

the 22 mag Critical Defense is one nasty round.

But, for comfort, a 380 would be best just because the gun itself has a smaller grip. I don't think the PMR 30s are to comfortable and unless you want to carry a revolver it rules out a 22 mag for self protection (if that's your intent, I kind of assumed because you mentioned stopping power).

But, between the 2, I'd trust a 22 mag more.

 

[dbd870]

I wish the term "stopping power" had never been uttered. There is no way to predict how anyone will react to being shot; (well short of a CNS hit)all you can do is compare expansion and penetration of the rounds. Neither would be my first choice however a few of the new 380 rounds have made me at least shut up about someone carrying one. I would not use any rimfire round unless that's all there was.

 

[Bapak2ja]

A .22 Mag;

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)
50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)

A .380 ACP;

90 gr (5.8 g) JHP 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 200 ft·lbf (270 J)
95 gr (6.2 g) FMJ 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 203 ft·lbf (275 J)

Can someone interpret this data for a nonprofessional ? I understand that the .22 Mag throws a smaller projectile at a faster speed and hits with a higher power/force (layman's term for the ft-lbf measurement) than the .380 ACP.

Does this mean that the .22 is sufficient or insufficient for the purpose of self-defense? Or does this mean that that .380 is better, but the .22 Mag will get the job done? Or does it mean if all you have is the .22 Mag just throw the gun at the zombie and show heels and elbows?

I have no idea what that data means. Thanks for any help that is offered.

 

[XtremeVel]

A .22 Mag;

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)
50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)
)

The .22 mag is more of a rifle cartridge. Saying that though, it can sure be fun to shoot out of a handgun at dusk.

Wonder how much those velocities would drop if shot out of a shorter barrel such as a revolver or pistol.

I'm not sure if there is any .22 mag ammo out there that is actually manufactured for the intent of such a short barrel.

I remember too well all the unburnt powder left in the chamber of my AMT auto mag II.... So much, matter of fact, it contributed to it not being reliable.

 

[Uncle Lee]

the 22 mag Critical Defense is one nasty round.

But, for comfort, a 380 would be best just because the gun itself has a smaller grip. I don't think the PMR 30s are to comfortable and unless you want to carry a revolver it rules out a 22 mag for self protection (if that's your intent, I kind of assumed because you mentioned stopping power).

But, between the 2, I'd trust a 22 mag more.

Some 22mags have very small grips. With the self defense rounds I think they would do good enough if that was all you could carry at the time.

 

[XtremeVel]

One correction to what I said earlier. I do now see Speer does offer a.22 WMR load made specifically for short barrels. It's their Gold Dot line with a 40gr HP. Note though they list the velocity at 1050 fps...

Click here: Gold Dot Short Barrel Ammo 22 Winchester Mag Rimfire (WMR) 40 Grain Hollow Point

 

[Uncle Lee]

Hornady is making one for the short barrel handguns also but they are having problems with misfires.

Critical Defense Ammo 22 Winchester Mag Rimfire (WMR) 45 Grain Flex Tip eXpanding

 

[billybob44]

The .380acp. has more "Knock Down"

A .22 Mag;

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)
50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)

A .380 ACP;

90 gr (5.8 g) JHP 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 200 ft·lbf (270 J)
95 gr (6.2 g) FMJ 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 203 ft·lbf (275 J)

These # are kind of misleading.. The .22Mag. #'s are out of a 16-20" RIFLE barrel. The .380acp. is out of a 3-4" PISTOL barrel.

If one would cut these specs for the .22Mag down to the same barrel length of the .380acp., the .380 is the winner all the way.

As noted in other post on this thread, the short barreled versions of the .22Mag. load have 1/2 the punch of the .22Mag. loads listed above.

Either way, BOTH calibers border on the very minimum for defense...BUT...SURE beats throwing rocks............Bill.

 

[2cool9031]

A .22 Mag;

30 gr (1.9 g) HP 2,200 ft/s (670 m/s) 322 ft·lbf (437 J)
40 gr (2.6 g) JHP 1,910 ft/s (580 m/s) 324 ft·lbf (439 J)
50 gr (3.2 g) JHP 1,650 ft/s (500 m/s) 300 ft·lbf (410 J)

A .380 ACP;

90 gr (5.8 g) JHP 1,000 ft/s (300 m/s) 200 ft·lbf (270 J)
95 gr (6.2 g) FMJ 980 ft/s (300 m/s) 203 ft·lbf (275 J)

Yep...that is what I was thinking. I did carry a 22 mag last summer to take care of any vermin around here. It was kind of a toss-up...5 rounds of .38spl or 8 rounds of 22 mag.

 

[nucone]

I believe the most critical variable is shot placement and that is much more important to stopping a threat than the caliber. Years ago, my wife stopped 3 burglars with a single shot from a Ruger 10/22. One got hit in the shoulder area and sat on the floor bleeding. The other two ran like scared rabbits and were caught by the police within a matter of minutes. One even knocked himself unconscious tripping over something in the front yard.

There are some interesting slow motion videos from BrassFetcher on YouTube for a variety of rounds including several 380ACP rounds and the Hornady 45gr FTX 22 magnum round. BrassFetcher reports are also interesting reads. None of the results however are based on real world injection of lead into living tissue so any conclusions as to round suitability are left to the reader.

 

[Chapparal]

I like the .22MAG but that is me. I would hate to be shot by either! Which one is going to create a larger cavity? More cavity, more blood loss, more absorption of force from the bullet (F=M*A), more ease of stopping. Shot placement is also key. If I could get off 10 rounds of .22 or .380 versus two or three of .44MAG I am most likely going to be better off. More holes, more blood loss, less likely target will continue in their actions.

 

[INyooper]

I believe the most critical variable is shot placement and that is much more important to stopping a threat than the caliber. Years ago, my wife stopped 3 burglars with a single shot from a Ruger 10/22. One got hit in the shoulder area and sat on the floor bleeding. The other two ran like scared rabbits and were caught by the police within a matter of minutes. One even knocked himself unconscious tripping over something in the front yard.

From your example above, it would seem the most critical variable is having a firearm. Indeed, the shot placement in your example was the shoulder; nowhere near a COM or CNS hit and, yet, the shot had its desired effect.

Research has shown that a significant number of criminal encounters are ended when the intended victim displays a firearm. With this data, and your example above, a strong case can be argued that a 22lr is quite sufficient to stop an attack. Quite frankly, it would be true based on the encounter you described. While I wouldn't recommend people arm themselves with a firearm in 22lr (only if nothing else was an option), I would recommend that people arm themselves with the largest caliber with which they are comfortable shooting well.

 

[nucone]

From your example above, it would seem the most critical variable is having a firearm. Indeed, the shot placement in your example was the shoulder; nowhere near a COM or CNS hit and, yet, the shot had its desired effect.

Research has shown that a significant number of criminal encounters are ended when the intended victim displays a firearm. With this data, and your example above, a strong case can be argued that a 22lr is quite sufficient to stop an attack. Quite frankly, it would be true based on the encounter you described. While I wouldn't recommend people arm themselves with a firearm in 22lr (only if nothing else was an option), I would recommend that people arm themselves with the largest caliber with which they are comfortable shooting well.

I agree but that was the only thing we had at the time. I will also point out that this encounter occured at about 3am, was the first time my wife shot this gun, and was literally a shot in the dark. She got them right after they came through the front door. We now have much larger artillery.

 

[windellmc]

I would think .380 ball ammo would have enough penetration to get to vitals and would make about twice as big a hole as the .22. .380 expanding ammo would probably have issues getting sufficient penetration.