.223 match reloading

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  • natdscott

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    Leo and Slough have taken very good care of you. Listen well. I'll only add just a little, and/or reiterate:

    So what size groups does it take to be middle of the pack or near the top?
    Am I correct since I have no scores my first few I have to shoot in master?

    Ya'll are focusing on the wrong things. Focus on preparing your equipment and mind. When you are there, focus on safety, fun, and the front sight, in that order.

    But to answer the questions: it's not about "size groups"...wrong sport. We are on a 2 MOA 10-ring/1 MOA X-ring target set, and it takes a 776 (97%) to be near winning most matches at Atterbury. If one of a few shooters are there, it will take more than that. Classification is not an award in-an-of-itself, though it gets treated that way sometimes. Shooting your first match, or even first year of matches, class is almost completely irrelevant except on your registration form.

    For your reference, my Slow Fire ammo is shooting in the 4's. Or at least, that's the best I can hold to tell.

    ...Camp Atterberry...was always a good group... If you carried yourself decently, you got treated very well.

    Indeed it was, and is. What is meant by the 'carry decently' thing is to generally not be a d*&%. That condition is usually a result of ego, but can also be ignorance, so the short version is to leave your ego at Range Control, shut your mouth, open your ears, and prepare to follow commands. It's a lot of fun--and REALLY a lot of fun after a few matches when you know how to go with the flow--but for the first match, don't get too social. Observing us too closely as we tell dirty jokes and laugh and make fun of each other, you might get the idea that we're casual about the triggering...that would be a mistake. ;)

    Like Leo said, just focus and try to safely get them all out of the magazine, and somewhere on the scoring rings.

    Me too Leo. How about we wobble down there for an old timers match this year?��

    Lynn Richter has been state champ like 7 or 8 times.

    You guys SHOULD do that. Let me know, if you do. I won't be shooting a whole lot of Course this year, but I'd like to shoot one or two for the right reasons...and those reasons probably don't include Regionals or States.

    And nobody likes Richter anyway. What an A%#. Who keeps vision like that, for that long, anyway? :)

    -Nate
     

    jhart

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    all good info thanks guys. Nate that is the general plan I only live 20 min from atterbury. And I fly Rc Helicopters at the Rc club right around the corner. So I am gonna try to compete often this year in as many as budget, time, and rifle will allow. Probably be like go shoot a match then in evening go fly a little. Great way to kill a day. Part of reason I built my Ar the way I did was to make it so it would qualify for multiple classes. So I can get lots of practice time in which is how I will view this year. Not so much as being on the leader board but just learning the flow and working to consistant scoring with all rounds.
     

    jhart

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    Loaded up some rounds yesterday. Was not impressed the groups were in the three to four inch range. I tried both the 68 grain hornady, and the 69 grain siera. Loaded over 23.3 grains of IMR 4895. So Im gonna pull all the remaing loads and try again using ram tac which showed better groups with 55 grain rounds. Left target is from two weeks ago with 55 grain rounds. and two diffrent shooters but my rifle. Right target is yesterday the two center groups were the 68 grain hornady. The lower one is the 69 sierra. the rest of rounds on target don't mind it was me practicing off hand which I suck at by the was. the other groups I circled were from bench rest at 100 yards. with a front support.






    View attachment 53167 View attachment 53168
     

    JStang314

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    Might try some other powder charges. When I was setting up loads for my rifle one charge could give a 2-3 inch group, while a change of less than 1 grain brought it to just under an inch.
     

    jhart

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    I was going to do some playing with the charge. But a lityle worried about going to much more. Primers were getting flatened pretty good. At 23.3 I really need to get a chronograph and see what fps are checking.
     

    Hop

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    I'm in this thread to find out how your hand loads do against a few off the shelf loads. I really don't want to get into hand loading unless necessary. My biggest problem is once I find a commercial load that works it disappears; CBC /Magtech MK262 Mod1 and now Australian Outback 69 gr SMK. Both of those are doing ~1 MOA out to 500 yards from a couple of my rifles.

    Comeups for the 18" Faxon midlength light hunter shooting the AO 69gr are 100=0, 200=2, 300=4, 400=8.5, 500=11.75 MOA. It must have been a faster bullet then what I previously calculated.
     

    red_zr24x4

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    I was going to do some playing with the charge. But a lityle worried about going to much more. Primers were getting flatened pretty good. At 23.3 I really need to get a chronograph and see what fps are checking.


    So start at the min and do test up to the max. Once you find the best charge weight play with the seating depth a little, But you cant go over magazine length
     

    jrh84

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    Jun 9, 2009
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    What are your thoughts on Tipped Match Kings vs. Regular Match Kings? With the thought being to reduce the meplat.

    Just curious.

    Thanks,
    B&G.

    It'll be interesting to see what the response from the guys who have been there done that in High Power have to say about this one.

    I picked a box of 100 up on Friday and loaded 40 rounds up for load development in my 20" Rock River. After doing some reading after the fact, it looks like these might not be the hot ticket they were expected to be...they are so long with the tip that to seat them at a reasonable length, you eat up case capacity and therefore velocity. Reduced velocity negates the higher BC. I loaded them at 1.888" to ogive (about .150" longer than mag length if I remember right). I had several loads run right at 3/4" @ 100 ( 5 shot groups). The one I'll probably go with was just above 2600 fps. I'll have to go back and see how that compares to other established slow fire loads.

    Im trying to shoot several course matches this year as well. My first one last year told me I've got a lot more to work on before pure mechanical accuracy is holding me back.
     

    natdscott

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    TMK = Meh.

    At least for the 69 TMK, I tried just near everything I knew except seating them to the lands (cuz that's not really the POINT of a 69, now is it?!) to make them shoot, and they won't shoot.

    By won't shoot, I mean that the litmus test is to shoot as well as my existing 77 SMK loads, and preferably as well as the 69 SMK. They do not do that.

    The box of 77 TMKs was thrown into the same garbage can, since I have better things to do than waste powder on a few points BC for only 300 yards....and I don't need another 600 yard bullet.

    -Nate
     

    Gyro

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    When working up a load, use proven componets that are proven to work well together. Make sure you you aren't torquing the barrel on a non-free float barrel with the sling.
     

    avboiler11

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    Hop said:
    My biggest problem is once I find a commercial load that works it disappears; CBC /Magtech MK262 Mod1

    A very popular "go-to" Mk262 clone load is a 77gr Nosler or SMK over 23.3-23.8gr of 8208XBR; I use 23.5gr. Normal internet disclaimer that 23.2gr represents Hodgdon 223 book max, but I've run as high as 24.0gr in a Wylde/5.56 chambered gas gun without pressure concerns.
     

    craigkim

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    I played with 223 a lot last year, because it was new to me. I had only reloaded pistol prior to that. My most accurate load was the Sierra 77 TMK with VV N135 powder loaded into new Lapua cases (Sized and then trimmed on My Giraud) and WSR primers. 2.260 OAL. I don't have my handbook here, just the snapshot of the table of contents, so not sure which charge I chose. I am not a very good, or experienced bench rest shooter, but I could pretty easily shoot .5" groups at 100 yards from my sand bags through my 18" JP-15 and my 1-6 Kahles. I don't have the ability to shoot further than that, so it was just an exercise to see what I could wring out of my reloading practices. For my purposes, and MUCH cheaper, I got right at 1" groups with the Hornady 55 FMJBT, TAC and surplus brass, so I won't be shooting too many 77s.
     

    BE Mike

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    A lot of well meaning advice, but Sloughfoot and Leo have been there and done that. Follow their advice about the heavier bullets. There is no reason to reinvent the wheel. Load a proven bullet/ powder combination for NRA high power shooting and start training! I like the KISS principle and like ammo that feeds through my magazines and use the same load at all distances, but I'm just a duffer.
     

    Gyro

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    When working up a load, make sure you are using quality brass that is prepped, the right bullets and powder and primers for the right job. Check for neck and bullet runout as you load. Non-concentric loaded ammo is going to cause fliers. You can't figure out what load works for your rifle when its throwing fliers. Shooting a batch of ammo that is prone to throw fliers will not help you develop your shooting skills as quickly because you won't know if that wild shot was something you did or something wrong with your rifle or your ammo.
     

    BrianT

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    If you're using an AR and shooting a lot you won't be able to beat the Hornady 75 grain HPBTs value wise. I buy them 500 at a time. Last batch I bought with the cannelure but I've ran plenty with no crimp on them. Got a tip that going a bit shorter OAL and a good crimp an actually improve accuracy. I've loaded these with CFE223, BLC(2), H335, and 8202. CFE was the best of the batch so far.
     

    jhart

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    I have about 300 of the 68. To burn thru. But do have a box or the 77 also to give it a shot. One of these days if the rain would stop on a weekend so I can give them a shot.
     

    natdscott

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    Do not crimp. That is false.

    If it were true, we'd all be doing it. We are not.

    But hey, if you just can't resist, I have a Redding Taper Crimp die I'll sell ya for cheap! 100 uses.

    -Nate
     

    700 LTR 223

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    I don't shoot competition but still found advice here very helpful. My best accuracy results shooting my 1 in 8" twist AR has been with the Sierra 77MK and Varget.
     
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