.358 Hoosier Bullet & Powder Options

[cedarthicket]

​See Post #5 for Updated Loading Data Table for .358 Hoosier.
Even though the weather was pretty cool and windy, I had a good time at the range last Saturday. I was testing my .358 Hoosier rifle with some Speer 180 gr HCFN (Hot Core Flat Nose) bullets. This was the first time I had tried these bullets. Usually I shoot the Hornady 180 or 200 gr SP bullets or the 180 gr Barnes TTSX FB for serious big game hunting (including deer). I fired four 3-shot groups at 50 yards and chronographed each shot. Below is a summary of results. I have also included a picture of the target. (Obviously, I used four different aiming points.) The picture includes additional loading and shooting data. No doubt a serious benchrest shooter (with good equipment and better shooting techniques), could have shot tighter groups, but these groups indicate the loads are certainly good enough for deer hunting in Indiana. No excessive pressure signs were noted.

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I MAY be able to add 0.5 grain more powder (H322 and Reloder 10X) with this bullet in the cases I am using (formed from Winchester brand of .358 Winchester brass). However, pending actual test results of 43.5 grains, I am regarding the 43 grain loads as maximum. Powder loading density is nearly 100 percent. A load of 43.5 grains should give slightly over 2600 feet per second muzzle velocity. CAUTION: if you are using thicker, heavier brass than mine you may find that 43 grains of powder is all that will go in your cases with this bullet seated to give an overall cartridge length of 2.48 inches. And, as a general rule I do not use compressed powder charges just to wring out a few more feet per second.

42 gr H322………Ave Vel = 2555 ft/sec.....Group = 0.82 inches
43 gr H322………Ave Vel = 2592 ft/sec.....Group = 0.80 inches

42 gr Rel 10X……Ave Vel = 2543 ft/sec…..Group = 1.20 inches
43 gr Rel 10X……Ave Vel = 2597 ft/sec…..Group = 0.60 inches

All handloading and shooting involves inherent risks beyond the control of the author. Therefore, the author assumes no liability whatsoever for use of the above data or other information contained in his posts.

FYI, I have been working on updating a table of loading data for the .358 Hoosier that I have been compiling over the last 3 years. Included will be 5 different bullets (of 180 or 200 grains) and 8 different powders. Of course, all 8 powders were not tested with each bullet. Hopefully, the table will be added to this thread in the next few days.

 

[42769vette]

Best luck Ive had on my 2 358 BFG's are 200gr TTSX over 10x.

 

[Broom_jm]

I use RL10X in my 358GNR, which is quite a bit smaller, but also delivers good accuracy.

Two things I would mention are the need to test groups at 100 yards or more, and testing in .5 or even .3 grain increments. At 50 yards, some bullets haven't gone to sleep yet, and most of the time your best accuracy nodes are found in-between full grain charge increments.

With that said, it looks like the 43gr 10X load is worth testing again at 100. Good stuff!

 

[cedarthicket]

I agree, Reloder 10X is good stuff for Indiana-legal .358 caliber wildcats. In fact, it is one powder that I have tried with all 5 bullets in my table of loading data for the Hoosier. (I guess you could make it 6 with the Speer 180 gr HCFN, although that bullet is not in the table because I have not done sufficient testing of it.)

 

[cedarthicket]

.358 Hoosier -- Loading Data Table
Following is a recently updated loading data table for the .358 Hoosier. Be sure to read ALL of the WARNING paragraph at the bottom of the table before loading ammo for this cartridge. All handloading and shooting involves inherent risks beyond the control of the author. Therefore, the author assumes no liability whatsoever for use of the data.

 

[Damdamdon]

Has anyone tried superformance in the hoosier?

2230 worked great but can not find any

.358 Hoosier -- Loading Data Table
Following is a recently updated loading data table for the .358 Hoosier. Be sure to read ALL of the WARNING paragraph at the bottom of the table before loading ammo for this cartridge. All handloading and shooting involves inherent risks beyond the control of the author. Therefore, the author assumes no liability whatsoever for use of the data.

 

[cedarthicket]

I recently chronographed loads with two additional powders and Barnes 200 grain TTSX BT bullets. Sufficient data were obtained for an addendum to the loading data table posted above. Here is a summary of the new data not yet added to the original table:

Barnes 200 gr. TTSX BT (B.C. = 0.367) …. C.O.L. = 2.73 inches

Accurate 2230…...41.5 gr = 2445 ft/sec…..43.5 gr = 2520 ft/sec (Maximum load)
Hodgdon H322.…..39.5 gr = 2440 ft/sec…..41.5 gr = 2550 ft/sec (Maximum load)

[The usual warning and disclaimer notice contained in the original loading data table applies.]

 

[Broom_jm]

Do you think that is fast enough to get the 200gr TTSX to open up reliably and would you recommend sticking with the (still long for caliber) 180gr TTSX or the 200gr Accubond?

 

[cedarthicket]

Do you think that is fast enough to get the 200gr TTSX to open up reliably and would you recommend sticking with the (still long for caliber) 180gr TTSX or the 200gr Accubond?

Good questions Broom_jm. First, I think it would be interesting to look at results of some lab tests run by Barnes on their TTSX bullets. See link to their web site:

Lab Tests | Barnes Bullets

Check especially the series of photos showing the results of testing a 7mm WSM with the Barnes 7mm 150 gr TTSX bullet in bone-gelatin at the simulated 1000 yard velocity of 1707 ft/sec. Also, check the photos showing the results of testing a 300 Weatherby Magnum with the Barnes .308 168 gr TTSX bullet in bone-gelatin at the simulated 1000 yard velocity of 1850 ft/sec.

From the Barnes tests, plus one field experience of A. J. Brown in South Africa, one could reach a conclusion that an impact velocity for a Barnes TSX or TTSX bullet of about 1700 ft/sec or greater should give effective bullet expansion for taking deer-size game animals. Have you heard of, or read about, a minimum velocity of 1700 ft/sec (or another velocity) quoted as a “rule of thumb” for reliable expansion of Barnes TSX and TTSX bullets?

In 2012 A.J. used his .358 Hoosier rifle to take a blesbok (deer or antelope-size animal) at 280 yards using a Barnes 200 gr TSX FB (flat base) bullet. Assuming a muzzle velocity of 2500 ft/sec, a ballistic coefficient (BC) of 0.284, and “standard” environmental conditions with the basic program, the online Hornady external ballistics calculator shows a bullet velocity of 1740 ft/sec at 275 yards. He recovered the expanded bullet under the skin on the far side of the animal. Although the bullet’s 4 petals opened up, they had not “peeled back” quite as much as shown in typical Barnes ads. It has been a while since I saw the bullet. As I recall its expanded diameter was probably around 0.5 to 0.6 inches, which percentage wise may not have been quite as much as shown by the Barnes bone-gelatin tests of their 7mm and .308 TTSX bullets. However, the expanded diameter of A. J. Brown’s bullet was still enough to cleanly take the blesbok.

Ballistics Calculator - Hornady Manufacturing, Inc

The 200 grain TSX bullet that A. J. used did not have the pointed plastic tip and it did not have the boat tail of the 200 grain bullet that I used in the recent chronographing session. His bullet has a BC of 0.284 while the 200 gr TTSX BT (boat tail) bullet I used has a BC of 0.367. Inserting this BC in the Hornady Ballistics Calculator, with all other variables unchanged, shows a remaining velocity of 1897 ft/sec at 275 yards. This is 157 ft/sec faster at 275 yards than the non-tipped, flat base bullet of the same weight. (By the way, inserting the 180 gr TTSX FB bullet (BC = 0.295) into the Hornady Ballistics Calculator with a muzzle velocity of 2600 ft/sec shows a remaining velocity at 275 yards of 1847 ft/sec.)

Regarding a recommendation on the bullets you mentioned, I continue to like all the Barnes 180 and 200 gr bullets in the .358 Hoosier. I also like the 200 gr Nosler Accubond, although I have not personally hunted with it. A good hunting friend used the Nosler Accubond in his .358 Hoosier rifle to take a couple deer. They were pass through shots at 100 yards or less. Because of the bullet velocities, trajectories, and performance (and field-accuracy limitations of most hunters, myself included) I would usually not recommend shots at deer-size animals beyond 300 yards for the .358 Hoosier, regardless of bullet used. (By the way, the 200 gr Nosler Accubond has a BC of 0.365 compared to 0.367 for the 200 gr Barnes TTSX BT. So, remaining velocities of these two bullets at distance would be very similar because they can be loaded to nearly identical muzzle velocities.)

For what it’s worth, my friend also used a 180 gr .308 Accubond in a 300 Win Mag (muzzle velocity nearly 3100 ft/sec and 350-yard velocity around 2450 ft/sec) to take a nice 5 X 5 bull elk at 350 yards last year in Colorado. It was a picture-perfect, broadside, pass through shot. The bullet broke a rib going in and another rib coming out the other side. The elk ran maybe 50 yards and dropped. I have no doubts that the bullet expanded well. However, the much thicker jacket metal in the lower portion of the bullet should have kept the bullet from losing a significant amount of its weight as it expanded. I would love to have seen the bullet after it penetrated the elk!!

I realize much of what I have written is anecdotal, based on a limited number of personal observations and experiences of others. Your personal observations and evaluations of the experiences of others may be somewhat different from mine. Not a problem. I try to keep an open mind.

 

[cedarthicket]

In the last two weeks I chronographed loads with three additional powders and Barnes 200 grain TTSX BT bullets. These powders could be called “medium” burn rate rifle powders. These powders also have a lower bulk density than several other powders listed in the above Loading Data Table. As such, even using enough of these three powders to fill the case up to the bullet base, the fired cartridges produced a noticeably lower velocity than the “faster” burn rate rifle powders previously tested. I observed no excessive pressure signs and velocities were still high enough to cleanly take deer up to 200 yards. And, the indicated accuracy was good. Here is a summary of the results:

Barnes 200 gr. TTSX BT (B.C. = 0.367) …. C.O.L. = 2.73 inches

IMR 4895…….....40.0 gr = 2244 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.90 inches @ 50 yd
IMR 4320…….....40.0 gr = 2252 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.65 inches @ 50 yd
Accurate 2015..40.0 gr = 2393 ft/sec…..5-shot group = 0.65 inches @ 50 yd**
Accurate 2015..38.0 gr = 2294 ft/sec…..5-shot group = 1.10 inches @ 100 yd**

**Not counting one obvious flyer due to shooter error in this group.

[The usual warning and disclaimer notice contained in the original loading data table applies.]

 

[cptmclark]

358 stuff

It's nice to see some tested load data. Disappointed that I won't have my shiny new 358 Hoosier for a while yet, but see that there are no components available anyway. I've started searching early. I'm surprised to not see IMR 4064 or Varget included in the load data. Is that because they did not test well, or just only so much time and bullets? Don't want to reinvent the wheel but have had excellent luck with 4064 in other 308 based cases and would like to learn of someones experience. Thanks to all.

 

[Broom_jm]

It's nice to see some tested load data. Disappointed that I won't have my shiny new 358 Hoosier for a while yet, but see that there are no components available anyway. I've started searching early. I'm surprised to not see IMR 4064 or Varget included in the load data. Is that because they did not test well, or just only so much time and bullets? Don't want to reinvent the wheel but have had excellent luck with 4064 in other 308 based cases and would like to learn of someones experience. Thanks to all.

If you take a look at a burn rate chart, you'll see that all of the tested powders are a little faster than 4064 and Varget. The 358 Hoosier is shortened and the shoulder is pushed back, reducing case capacity enough that faster-burning powders will deliver better velocity. The two powders you have used in full-length 308-based cases are too slow to give best results from the 358 Hoosier.

 

[cptmclark]

If anyone has recorded accuracy testing results along with the chronograph data I'd love to see it. I'm told to expect still another 6 weeks wait for my rifle (business is good) and so would like to see what you all have found in accuacy results with all of those loads. Otherwise, I have to buy a lot more stuff to build test loads if the wheel has already been invented. I'm really happy to see all of the load data with velocity results. My passion is accuracy (sorry, it's a curse) and that's what I'll be working for. The guy building my rifle says MOA is no problem with the barrels he uses properly installed and set up, but that can't be will all loads. I know it's hard to do with a 50 yard range limit, but I'll bet some of you are doing bench rest testing with your new toys....OOPSIE.....I meant "tools".

 

[cptmclark]

Thank you Broom_jm, I can see that on the burn rate charts. Should have seen it before. I guess I'll have to go invest in still more powders. Seems I should have enough to do about anything by now, with the collection of powder I've assembled. Wonder about Accurate 5744 and 1680 I bought for the 445 supermag that didn't work out. I'll check. Thanks again

 

[cptmclark]

cedarthicket
I can use your 35 remington brass. let me know how to pay and recieve, just north of indy

cptmclark@aol.com

 

[cptmclark]

cedarthicket
Sorry if this is wrong thread, but having trouble replying to your request for interest in your 35 remington brass. I can use it. Let me know payment and delivery, just n of indy.
cptmclark@aol.com

 

[Gandrews1450]

Thanks for the load data. Jim brown loaded up some 200 grain hornady with 44.5 gr of 2230 and they shoot awesome. More accurate than I am and I love them.

 

[cedarthicket]

Thank you Broom_jm, I can see that on the burn rate charts. Should have seen it before. I guess I'll have to go invest in still more powders. Seems I should have enough to do about anything by now, with the collection of powder I've assembled. Wonder about Accurate 5744 and 1680 I bought for the 445 supermag that didn't work out. I'll check. Thanks again

I would not recommend either 5744 or 1680. I have not tried them but believe they are too fast burning to be comfortable using in the .358 Hoosier. Too much chance of a dangerous overload by someone trying to push the envelope on "published" loads.

Regarding the .35 Remington brass, I will send you an email to see if you are still interested. I apologize for not contacting you sooner. For several weeks I have not checked for updates to this thread.

 

[cedarthicket]

Today I chronographed two 3-shot groups with Hodgdon’s Varget powder and the Barnes 200 grain TTSX BT bullets. This powder has become popular in the last few years. It is what could be called a “medium” burn rate rifle powder, in good company with other such powders as IMR 4895 and IMR 4320. These powders also have a lower bulk density than several other powders that I have tested. The charge of 42 grains of Varget filled up the newly-formed cases (from new.358 Winchester brass) to the junction of the neck and shoulder, resulting in a slight compression of the powder when the Barnes bullets were seated. I observed no excessive pressure signs and bullet velocities should be high enough to take deer up to 200 yards. And, the indicated accuracy was good. Air temperature was about 87 degrees. Here is a summary of the results:

Barnes 200 gr. TTSX BT (B.C. = 0.367) …. C.O.L. = 2.73 inches

Varget….……..42.0 gr = 2257 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 2.00 inches @ 100 yd (no fouling shots)
Varget….……..42.0 gr = 2254 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.72 inches @ 100 yd

[The usual warning and disclaimer notice contained in the original loading data table applies.]

**********

Two days ago I used Varget powder with the Speer 180 gr HCFN (Hot Core Flat Nose) bullets. I tried charges from 41 up to 43.5 grains in the newly-formed cases. The 43 and 43.5 grain charges came up into the neck of the cases. The 43 grain charge resulted in slight powder compression and the 43.5 grain charge was moderately compressed. I observed no excessive pressure signs. Air temperature was about 82 degrees. Here is a summary of results:

Speer 180 gr. HCFN (B.C. = 0.237) …. C.O.L. = 2.48 inches

Varget….……..41.0 gr = 2144 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.70 inches @ 50 yd
Varget….……..42.0 gr = 2193 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 1.15 inches @ 50 yd
Varget….……..43.0 gr = 2233 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.88 inches @ 50 yd
Varget….……..43.5 gr = 2281 ft/sec…..2-shot group = 0.30 inches @ 50 yd

[The usual warning and disclaimer notice contained in the original loading data table applies.]

So, you can use several “medium” burn rate powders in the .358 Hoosier. And, they may give you excellent accuracy. However, slightly faster (and perhaps higher bulk density) powders are needed to produce maximum velocities (at safe pressures) with a given bullet.

 

[Broom_jm]

Today I chronographed two 3-shot groups with Hodgdon’s Varget powder and the Barnes 200 grain TTSX BT bullets. This powder has become popular in the last few years. It is what could be called a “medium” burn rate rifle powder, in good company with other such powders as IMR 4895 and IMR 4320. These powders also have a lower bulk density than several other powders that I have tested. The charge of 42 grains of Varget filled up the newly-formed cases (from new.358 Winchester brass) to the junction of the neck and shoulder, resulting in a slight compression of the powder when the Barnes bullets were seated. I observed no excessive pressure signs and bullet velocities should be high enough to take deer up to 200 yards. And, the indicated accuracy was good. Air temperature was about 87 degrees. Here is a summary of the results:

Barnes 200 gr. TTSX BT (B.C. = 0.367) …. C.O.L. = 2.73 inches

Varget….……..42.0 gr = 2255 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 2.00 inches @ 100 yd (no fouling shots)
Varget….……..42.0 gr = 2255 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.72 inches @ 100 yd

[The usual warning and disclaimer notice contained in the original loading data table applies.]

**********

Two days ago I used Varget powder with the Speer 180 gr HCFN (Hot Core Flat Nose) bullets. I tried charges from 41 up to 43.5 grains in the newly-formed cases. The 43 and 43.5 grain charges came up into the neck of the cases. The 43 grain charge resulted in slight powder compression and the 43.5 grain charge was moderately compressed. I observed no excessive pressure signs. Air temperature was about 82 degrees. Here is a summary of results:

Speer 180 gr. HCFN (B.C. = 0.237) …. C.O.L. = 2.48 inches

Varget….……..41.0 gr = 2144 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.70 inches @ 50 yd
Varget….……..42.0 gr = 2193 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 1.15 inches @ 50 yd
Varget….……..43.0 gr = 2233 ft/sec…..3-shot group = 0.88 inches @ 50 yd
Varget….……..43.5 gr = 2281 ft/sec…..2-shot group = 0.30 inches @ 50 yd

[The usual warning and disclaimer notice contained in the original loading data table applies.]

So, you can use several “medium” burn rate powders in the .358 Hoosier. And, they may give you excellent accuracy. However, slightly faster (and perhaps higher bulk density) powders are needed to produce maximum velocities (at safe pressures) with a given bullet.

What was the difference between the top two loads?