They both had the same powder charge, but were fired at separate targets. I had originally averaged all 6 shots at 2255 ft/sec. Group #1 averaged 2257 ft/sec and Group #2 averaged 2254 ft/sec (data corrected in my original post). And, no fouling shots were taken before firing Group #1.
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.358 Hoosier Bullet & Powder Options
- Thread starter cedarthicket
- Start date
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I've now had time to get my rifle and collect some useable powders and bullets. Over a few range sessions I've compiled some useable (for me) data, still looking for the end result of one or two final contestants so I can quit all the R&D which I enjoy but has to end someday.
I'm concerned about the new and improved chamber reamer information. My first page of test data was using the Federal 308 cartridge. If I understand correctly, the most recent reamer (+004) is intended to match these case dimentions. Now I have some Hornady 358 Win cases formed by the Hoosier dies and wonder if I should not expect the same accuracy level. Can't tell from one range session but the last one used only the 358 brass and groups were larger. I guess I can measure the necks after sizing, but since you seem to know this stuff, can I assume with the new reamer I'd get better accuracy (better fit) using 308 (thicker neck) brass?
Bullets I have are the 180 Barnes TTSX, Hornady 200 I L, and Hornady 200 FTX.
Powders I used are the H322 and IMR 4198. I'm getting much better ES from the 4198. Oddly I see wonderful accuracy with very low charges of H322 and the 180 barnes but not above abot 2400fps.
I started low and worked up in each case and hit max (too hot and back off) a bit sooner than you did.
Also in some cases I had to shorten C O L a tad below those that gave you good results as I was getting into the lands.
I'm looking for advice as I'm getting close to quitting testing, and would like to find better accuracy. MOA is expected according to barrel maker Shilen, and I'm not seeing that consistently at the target velocities.
Some of the testing was at 75 yards so I noted the measurements and extrapolated to MOA to compare apples and apples, so that's what the MOA column is for. Also most groups were with two or three rounds only, as I was shooting to rule out loads rather than prove them. Five shot groups to come, using the top contenders.
Only Fed 308 brass was used in the data shown on the chart. (Subsequent testing with Hornady showed initially lighter weight cases and slightly larger groups (one session only). Chrono readings went bonkers on the last session giveing readings above 3000 fps. I don't know what's up with that, but I just disregarded the speeds on those).
Where extreme spread was really high I noted it. Not sure about the cheap chrono but my guess is it should be consistent.
I'm trying to add the attachment to this post, but not sure I've accomplished that.
I appreciate any wisdom, expertise, opinions and correction. I don't offer these results for anyone to use, but for discussion and comment. They may contain errors and I'm not an expert ballistician, so don't depend on the data for safety.
I'm concerned about the new and improved chamber reamer information. My first page of test data was using the Federal 308 cartridge. If I understand correctly, the most recent reamer (+004) is intended to match these case dimentions. Now I have some Hornady 358 Win cases formed by the Hoosier dies and wonder if I should not expect the same accuracy level. Can't tell from one range session but the last one used only the 358 brass and groups were larger. I guess I can measure the necks after sizing, but since you seem to know this stuff, can I assume with the new reamer I'd get better accuracy (better fit) using 308 (thicker neck) brass?
Bullets I have are the 180 Barnes TTSX, Hornady 200 I L, and Hornady 200 FTX.
Powders I used are the H322 and IMR 4198. I'm getting much better ES from the 4198. Oddly I see wonderful accuracy with very low charges of H322 and the 180 barnes but not above abot 2400fps.
I started low and worked up in each case and hit max (too hot and back off) a bit sooner than you did.
Also in some cases I had to shorten C O L a tad below those that gave you good results as I was getting into the lands.
I'm looking for advice as I'm getting close to quitting testing, and would like to find better accuracy. MOA is expected according to barrel maker Shilen, and I'm not seeing that consistently at the target velocities.
Some of the testing was at 75 yards so I noted the measurements and extrapolated to MOA to compare apples and apples, so that's what the MOA column is for. Also most groups were with two or three rounds only, as I was shooting to rule out loads rather than prove them. Five shot groups to come, using the top contenders.
Only Fed 308 brass was used in the data shown on the chart. (Subsequent testing with Hornady showed initially lighter weight cases and slightly larger groups (one session only). Chrono readings went bonkers on the last session giveing readings above 3000 fps. I don't know what's up with that, but I just disregarded the speeds on those).
Where extreme spread was really high I noted it. Not sure about the cheap chrono but my guess is it should be consistent.
I'm trying to add the attachment to this post, but not sure I've accomplished that.
I appreciate any wisdom, expertise, opinions and correction. I don't offer these results for anyone to use, but for discussion and comment. They may contain errors and I'm not an expert ballistician, so don't depend on the data for safety.
I have also been loading for the Hoosier. Hopefully the picture I have attached will work. I was just wondering if you guys thought these groups are normal. I tested two loads which in previous testing shot the most accurate for me. I am using Reloader 7, 180 grain Speer hot cor's, winchester primers, and a mix of .358 win and .243 brass. The two loads in the picture are 41.4 and 41.8 grains. I started shooting on a clean bore cleaned with solvent. I have numbered the shots in the picture if you can read it.
The first group with 41.4 grains measures 5", clean bore, no fouling shots. Second group was 41.8 grains and it closed up a little to 2.5". The next group I went back to the 41.4 grain load and aimed at the bar code on the target, that group was .85". Next group was 41.8 grains and was .79".
So apparently my gun likes to shoot with a dirty bore. Has anyone else had experience like this before? I have had this rifle for a year and started loading for it a few months ago. I don't have a lot of experience with bolt actions so I was just curious if this was normal for some guns to shoot all over the place on a clean bore, then tighten up considerably after a few groups. Thank you all for all of the information on this thread. It has been so helpful!
The first group with 41.4 grains measures 5", clean bore, no fouling shots. Second group was 41.8 grains and it closed up a little to 2.5". The next group I went back to the 41.4 grain load and aimed at the bar code on the target, that group was .85". Next group was 41.8 grains and was .79".
So apparently my gun likes to shoot with a dirty bore. Has anyone else had experience like this before? I have had this rifle for a year and started loading for it a few months ago. I don't have a lot of experience with bolt actions so I was just curious if this was normal for some guns to shoot all over the place on a clean bore, then tighten up considerably after a few groups. Thank you all for all of the information on this thread. It has been so helpful!
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It is common for some rifles, bolt-action and otherwise, to give better (more consistent) results with a fouled bore. However, the discrepancy between cold/clean bore and fouled bore is not usually this pronounced.
RL7 seems a mite fast for this cartridge, but if you're getting groups like that the only left is to verify them, chronograph them, and get sighted in!
RL7 seems a mite fast for this cartridge, but if you're getting groups like that the only left is to verify them, chronograph them, and get sighted in!
I have the 358 BFG as well, do you mind sharing your load info?
Best accuracy to date with the two powders I have to work with (H322 and IMR 4198) is with the TTSX 180 grn and 40.0 gr 4198. That's my only consistent 1.0 MOA load and only runs 2535 fps. (Slower loads are more accurate). Strangely, the same powder charge with the 200 grain Hornady bullets gives higher velocity, about 2570. Extreme spreads are over 100 and i don't have the answer to that. I've been using WW LRprimers and just made a batch with Fed match primers and back to Fed brass from Hornady. H322 gives me very poor accuracy with the 200 gr lead core bullets but OK with the longer 180TTSX. I'm loading all to about .010 off the lands. With the magic hour approaching I have a batch of the 180 TTSX at 2530 on hand and the rifle zeroed for that load. Still hoping for better, and prefering the lead core bullets I have four loads to try tomorrow. One with the 180TTSX bumped up one grain more of 4198 and using the Fed primer instead of WW. Hated to change two things at once but running out of time. Other test loads will be the best of the lead core bullet loads (200 Interlock and Flextip) over 39 grains of 4198, this time in the Fed case with Fed primer. That's as high as I can go after backing down from pressure signs. Speed is 2550 or a little better with both bullets. I don't know but am curious about the chamber dimentions being expanded and maybe one case fitting better than the other. Both are fireformed but might have neck thickness differences I didn't notice.
I'd be grateful for suggestions and advice about how to improve my results with the components I have. I know other powders might be better but haven't laid hands on them. If you know a better one I'll try again to find it. Wondering about ten inch twist and the shorter 200 gr bullets. Not sure why they don't give the accuracy of the TTSX lighter but longer bullet. Maybe the 225 Sierra next bullet to try? Thanks in advance for feedback.
I'd be grateful for suggestions and advice about how to improve my results with the components I have. I know other powders might be better but haven't laid hands on them. If you know a better one I'll try again to find it. Wondering about ten inch twist and the shorter 200 gr bullets. Not sure why they don't give the accuracy of the TTSX lighter but longer bullet. Maybe the 225 Sierra next bullet to try? Thanks in advance for feedback.
Final R&D before the season
I loaded and shot the IMR 4198 loads that had proved best from previous testing to confirm. This time I only used the Federal brass and Federal Match primers. Voila, one of those things worked because the extreme spreads went from about average 120 to average 28. Groups shrunk. Wish I had changed one thing at a time.
Suddenly the 180TTSX best groups went even better to about 0.55 MOA and a speed of 2683. Too good to be true. Primers very flat, but no unusual case expansion. Maybe .5 less powder if I had time to try more. Double check group and speed and it remained. Second best was a too hot load with the 200 gr Interlock. Too hot I suppose due to hotter primer and slighly smaller case capacity of the Fed case. Still, 1.1 MOA with this least accurate bullet in my tests. Velocity was a scary 2604 and I'll not use it more without a reduction. With the Hornady case and WW primer it was fine at a more reasonable 2540 fps.
The Hornady custom Hoosier dies I have have an unusual shape, with radiused corners on the shoulder, much like Weatherby cases. Fireforming makes it right, but the initial firings did not give satisfactory results.
I'm eager for feed back, correction and advice. Trying hard to learn while doing and it's taken too long and lots of bullets. I wish I could have found more powders and also that I'd discarded the WW primers and Hornady brass early on. Probably nothing wrong with either, but it sure worked magic when I changed those. Of course I increased pressures more than desired but that should be easy to fix. IMR powders seem very forgiving for .5 gr more or less. Still, safety first. Ideas?
I loaded and shot the IMR 4198 loads that had proved best from previous testing to confirm. This time I only used the Federal brass and Federal Match primers. Voila, one of those things worked because the extreme spreads went from about average 120 to average 28. Groups shrunk. Wish I had changed one thing at a time.
Suddenly the 180TTSX best groups went even better to about 0.55 MOA and a speed of 2683. Too good to be true. Primers very flat, but no unusual case expansion. Maybe .5 less powder if I had time to try more. Double check group and speed and it remained. Second best was a too hot load with the 200 gr Interlock. Too hot I suppose due to hotter primer and slighly smaller case capacity of the Fed case. Still, 1.1 MOA with this least accurate bullet in my tests. Velocity was a scary 2604 and I'll not use it more without a reduction. With the Hornady case and WW primer it was fine at a more reasonable 2540 fps.
The Hornady custom Hoosier dies I have have an unusual shape, with radiused corners on the shoulder, much like Weatherby cases. Fireforming makes it right, but the initial firings did not give satisfactory results.
I'm eager for feed back, correction and advice. Trying hard to learn while doing and it's taken too long and lots of bullets. I wish I could have found more powders and also that I'd discarded the WW primers and Hornady brass early on. Probably nothing wrong with either, but it sure worked magic when I changed those. Of course I increased pressures more than desired but that should be easy to fix. IMR powders seem very forgiving for .5 gr more or less. Still, safety first. Ideas?
